Hibernation playstyle and TLD Steam leaderboard

I guess this falls into How to Play - category, so I'll post it here, but moderators are free to move this thread to more appropriate place on forums if needed.

There was an interesting thread on TLD Steam forums with Devs comments about hibernation as a playstyle:

http://steamcommunity.com/app/305620/di ... 819579390/

Here's a quote from Devs on that thread:

http://steamcommunity.com/app/305620/di ... 0820586417

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"All that said:

1) while Hibernation is possible based on the way the mechanics work, this is not an experience we endorse as it's completely contrary to the spirit of the game

2) since Hibernation ruins the value of Leaderboard scores, we intend to address this simply for those people who value the Leaderboards and "Days Survived" scores.

Solving this is a fairly complex design problem which involves changing several systems. That said, we may introduce "bandaid" solutions to further reduce the effectiveness of this "strategy"."

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When reading that thread I just kept thinking, how about leaving the game mechanics as they are and instead changing the leaderboard from "Days Survived" scores, to keep a record of those hours of active gameplay before the inevitable Fading to the Long Dark...

Make it so that only hours spent awake before "Saved Game" text appears are counted towards this leaderboard score. Otherwise one might be outdoors untill every condition meter would be on red and click "Quit" and start from the last "Saved Game" - point ingame with a fresh start and condition meters back on green as they were when starting that run.

I'm sure there are smarter minds playing this game than me, so this was just one solution to this "problem" that I thought of, when reading that thread on Steam. If Hibernation even is a problem might take another thread to discuss , but just wanted to post this here on official TLD forums to hear Your thoughts about Steams leaderboard scores and hibernating playstyle.

Would these "hours of active gameplay" reflect better the "spirit of the game" as Devs put it on their answer quoted above?

And how about if those Leaderboard scores would be resetted with every bigger update (not for bug hotfixes) or once a month or once every 3 months? If You didn't make it on the front page this time, it would take only few weeks or couple of months to get a fresh clean leaderboard again... and that would reflect the game as it is after latest updates and not results from a run started under different conditions a few updates prior this one.

I would think the percentage of the map(s) explored would be a better metric than days survived.

I would think the percentage of the map(s) explored would be a better metric than days survived.

Many people who survived 200 days+ without hibernating all the time (and these are quite some, I guess) have most likely explored 98-100% of all the maps - thus, all of them would be #1.

It's a nice idea for lower survival times, but as 100% is kind of a hard cap, it wouldn't work for the upper ranks.

The OPs idea sounds nice at first (would probably make me nerd #1 - just kiddin' :lol: ), but it could be exploited as well, unfortunately. Running around inside a building needlessly for the whole day instead of "speeding up" time by sleeping - it's a way more time-consuming and annoying way to exploit, but it still doesn't solve the original problem.

The solution to the whole starvation/hibernation exploit is difficult for sure, as it requires most likely a change of the current starvation and sleep mechanics. I'm happy that the devs are aware of the problem and hope for a solution in a future patch.

When PV map came out, i actually rarely hibernated until 200-250 days... all those days took me to fully explore the whole map, and get it to know in and out basically, also did some self made challenges. After that i did play hibernating game most of the time. Ranked 15th at a moment, thats PV map only.

As i mentioned in another thread you could have a bar measuring strength. So the problem with hibernation is that you are not doing anything over long period of time . So if you are doing this you should be losing strength.

This could solve the whole problem in one go

As i mentioned in another thread you could have a bar measuring strength. So the problem with hibernation is that you are not doing anything over long period of time . So if you are doing this you should be losing strength.

This could solve the whole problem in one go

+1

Hmmmm, the game wants to be "realistic", so what's realistic in such a situation?

Would you run around in the wilderness if you got a house, enough food, clothes, wood etc...? Or would you probably stay in the house/in bed for some time?

I don't care about "leaderboards" or something, but i would use such tactics in reality. And in reality i'm not losing strength if i'm indoors for some time.

In fact i don't get the problem: You need food, water etc.... so you can't sleep forever. Does it really matter how long some people survive who are doing it that way? I don't care... just logical tactics in such a situation.

Just my opinion

Greez,

Atta

Hmmmm, the game wants to be "realistic", so what's realistic in such a situation?

Would you run around in the wilderness if you got a house, enough food, clothes, wood etc...? Or would you probably stay in the house/in bed for some time?

There's a difference between realism [what you would do IRL] vs. gameplay [what would be more entertaining in a game]

IRL you might "hibernate" - but don't forget there are a lot of things [challenges and additional difficulties] the game doesn't include, but which you would be faced with IRL... but the game includes some aspects survival simulation [which is quite different than trying to create a Survival Simulator -- which the game isn't trying to be]

Most of the advanced players have moved on to more active gameplay now that they've learned the game mechanics, and can survive 100's to 1000+ day survival without relying on the hibernation methods anymore. Some players still will for now (simply to get on the board), but they'll also complain it's boring because that doesn't really involve true gameplay.

Once the game is ready for final release, I figure the devs will have a happy balance, and the Leaderboards will likely all be reset as the game switches from Alpha testing (where a lot of the exploits and scores are easier to gain) in order to create a fresh clean slate where everybody starts off on the same final settings.

Once the game is ready for final release, I figure the devs will have a happy balance, and the Leaderboards will likely all be reset as the game switches from Alpha testing (where a lot of the exploits and scores are easier to gain) in order to create a fresh clean slate where everybody starts off on the same final settings.

That would be awesome, I would probably try another long run after the final release if this comes true. Right now, such an attempt feels pointless for me. I made it as far as my abilities allowed me (Day777, #10) without hibernating and I'm not going to hibernate (and die of boredom in front of my monitor) just for a better rank.

I fail to see how this is a problem.

After all, isn't that how a lot of people survive harsh winters? Store up food and fuel, and ride it out. People in the game are doing the same thing people actually do in hard winters.

The problem is not people sleeping a lot, but starving 80% of the time without replenishing their body's reserves properly between the starvation periods...

In reality, starving works for a certain amount of time - until your body has consumed all its fat and muscle reserves. Let's say that takes a few weeks or months, depending on your initial weight. During the course of starvation, you become (ofc) leaner and leaner until, at some point, your body has no reserves left any more. If you continue to starve (and don't replenish your fat/muscle reserves properly), you just die.

In TLD, people starve for days, eat a tiny piece of meat afterwards and that's enough to recover from starvation completely. They actually lack e.g. 5000 kcal (because they starved two days) and completely "replenish" their reserves by eating 500 kcal. The remaining 4500 kcal deficit just mysteriously disappears. I assume you get the problem now.

I don't want to go too much into scientific detail here, but the current starvation-hibernation mechanics simply violate the laws of nature, starting with the law of conservation of energy (might be your favorite if you like physics) and ending with the Gibbs-Helmholtz equation (if you're more into chemistry or biology).

Even if you consider this scientific background to be not important at all (because it's of course just a game), it's still against common sense and everyday-experience (if you ever watch the news, that is) that you're able to starve for an unlimited amount of time as long as you eat 3 breadcrumbs every few days. If that was possible, noone in 3rd world countries would ever die of starvation.