Stop it with those wolves

So, just adding my voice here about the new wolf situation. It's just completely out of hand. They are everywhere. I started up a new game and there were two wolves circling me. And the whole game now feels like a 'dash to the next house' instead of an actual survival game. Every single time you step out of a house, there is a wolf right around the corner. So I started a new game, and there was a wolf right in front of me. So I started another one, and there was a wolf. And another one, and there was a wolf.

I love The Long Dark. I absolutely love the new map. I love how it's connected to the old one. I love the new coastal town. I love how the game is both incredibly relaxing and wonderful to play after a long, stressful day, while also having an element of constant suspense. I love how it's more about survival than running around hiding from dangers. But everywhere you walk, there is a wolf patrolling the path. These wolves are just like zombies.

This is insane.

As someone said (can't remember who), this is a 'thinking man's game'. This is a game for people who strategize and plan ahead.

Part of my annoyance with the wolves is also that I don't live in a country that has that many wolves to begin with. I live in Denmark, where we only have about 4 wolves in total... in the entire country. When someone even spots a wolf, it's often mentioned in the news.

I would prefer a game where I could turn off all the wolves completely. The wolves don't add anything to the game for me. It's just an annoying distraction from the far more exciting game of strategizing about your survival.

Another part of the problem is where the wolves are. There are very few wolves out in the open (where you would expect them to be), but they are almost always clustering around the habitable zones. That doesn't make any sense to me, but I'm no wolf expert. The coastal town is like the wolf base. Shouldn't it be the other way around?

So, if you guys don't want to change the wolf situation, please add a "no wolves" option in the options menu.

Oh... and BTW, I finally managed to start a game without being surrounded by wolves. I went to the first cabin... rummaged around for food, went back outside... and was killed by a wolf. But once you leave the habitable zones and venture into the outbacks... the Long Dark is just spectacular!

You are absolutely right that it disrupts game. There are enough fast-paced, twitchy games but a completely different customers here. I'm used to play this as a strategy game and I dont want to spend most of the time healing wounds from wolf attacks and beginning a new game. Or in other words, wolf attacks used to be a rare thrill, but if you overuse like every 20 minutes it it becomes something else.

Here's a crazy idea:

1) reduce the number of wolves (1 wolf per 4-6 deer/rabbits/other game for example),

2) have them behave like the rest of the game - so flight on sight - like real life wolves (unless in very short distances where it will be startled and will attack in self-defense), it's fast and hard to hit with a rifle but it comes with good rewards (teeth, hide, meat)

3) maybe have just one alpha wolf per map that is an aggressive blood-thirsty hunter-killer of Satan.

4) maybe add a message appearing when about to exit a house with a wolf or another predator within a certain radius - with something along the lines of "i'll better wait a while, there's a predator outside"

I definitely agree with you on the wolf to deer ratio. And I would prefer it to be much higher than that. I would love a game where wolves are only something you see on very rare occasions, while deer and rabbit being somewhat more frequent.

And I also agree on the 'flight on sight' to increase to being the default unless they feel threatened. Especially since a geomagnetic storm wouldn't have any impact on the normal living conditions of the wildlife, so there is no reason why wolves would act more aggressively (or seek out populated areas).

I don't like the idea about a message alerting me. Part of the allure of The Long Dark is that you don't know, so you have to look yourself. It's also why we shouldn't have a mini-map to look at, or other such UI widgets.

I don't like the idea about a message alerting me. Part of the allure of The Long Dark is that you don't know, so you have to look yourself. It's also why we shouldn't have a mini-map to look at, or other such UI widgets.

I was thinking in terms of peeking through barely opened doors to check (since you can't look out the windows), but without the hassle of a new animation just for this. So you peeked and if all is well you exit, if not a message pops up. I was killed just outside the door and heard similar stories from other people, so if we have to have predators outside of houses at least we have a way of checking for them without losing a limb or two.

Yep... but still... this is not (or it shouldn't be in my opinion) be a game about escaping from predators. There are too many zombies games for that.

BTW: I was just killed by a wolf... again... but I did manage to find a rifle in the middle of nowhere.

I would love if Devs reduced number of wolves.

I am playing on the new map and there is an absurd amount of them. On my first run (ended by weak ice) I walked out of fishing hut to see two wolves charging head on. While I was battling first one I swear I saw other wolf just standing still preparing to attack. I had a hunting knife and I was able to kill both, however my health dropped from 100% to 5%. I started walking toward the cost, when I noticed THIRD wolf stalking me. I just thought "Screw this" and decided to go deeper into lake when I entered "Thin/Weak Ice Area". Before I could put two and two together I heard a loud crack and drowned.

There is also a lot of wolves in coastal towns and near houses. Also, I think option "No wolves" would be too drastic. Maybe instead you could have a slider for a percent of wolves compared to default. For example: 0%, 25%, 50%, 75% 100%, 125% and 150%. This way you could make your gameplay easier, or harder, as you much as you want.

Another option would be of course to make the wolves weaker, or cause less damage.

Probably the number needs to be just something in between 1.38 (too few wolves) and 1.52 (10x more agressive zombie wolves). Or a bit of everything.

But it can't stay like that. I have watched several videos on Youtube and they all have the same problem. Wolfes waiting behind doors, and usually a second and third coming as reinforcements.

It also contradicts this info on the Steam pages "Wolves are not meant to be an enemy you actively try to tangle with." <-- that's how it used to be until .152

http://steamcommunity.com/app/305620/di ... 588851135/

Wolves: Some Clarifications

Hello! This isn't to refute anything about the current feedback with wolves being OP, too prevalent, etc. We hear that feedback.

This is more of a check to see if people understand how wolves currently "work" and if there's something lacking in our current feedback, UI, etc. that is maybe hiding some of the gameplay intention, especially around the Wolf Struggle component.

Wolf Behaviour

* Wolves spawn in regions in the world, and have a territory they "patrol". They will pretty much remain in that territory unless they detect you and decide to follow you.

* When they detect you, they elicit a kind of bark, and if they are close enough they go into a kind of "stalking" mode, which should be obvious by the change in animation and growling.

* Their detection of you is based on a range. They can hear you, smell you.

* If you do not manage to clear distance from them once they are in the stalking mode, they will eventually switch into an attack state, where they close distance with you. If they get to you, this will trigger a Struggle.

* If they are chasing something else (ex. deer), they will ignore you.

Struggle Attack

* The wolf does DoT (Damage over Time).

* You build up Strength to attack back by tapping LMB.

* You can release this built up Strength as an attack by clicking RMB.

* If you fill up the Strength bar fully, you will do much more damage.

* The more Fatigued you are, the harder it is for you to build up Strength.

The trade-off is: build up many small attacks and potentially reduce the amount of time the wolf is mauling you (DoT) sooner, OR take the damage but build up to the full-strength attack which has a much better chance of scaring the wolf off and/or killing it.

General Wolf Deterrents

* Lit flares will deter a wolf from attacking you, some of the time. If you have a lit flare and you advance at a wolf, it will attack you. The strategy here is use the lit flare to cover your escape.

* Thrown lit flares will almost always scare a wolf off. The trade off is if it doesn't, you are now far from your lit flare, with an angry wolf staring at you.

* Lit campfires will generally keep wolves away from you.

* You can drop food as a "decoy" if a Wolf is stalking you. The effectiveness of the "decoy" depends on the food item. Every food item has a scent value. Dropping raw meat, for example, is more effective than dropping a can of peaches. The wolf will stop to investigate the "decoy", buying you time to escape.

* You can kill a wolf with one successful shot from the Rifle.

Other Notes

* "Fluffy", like all wolves, is a random spawn in the Dam. We might need to tune the % chance down, but having him appear there is partly a balance to how loot-rich the dam is. Kill him and benefit from a safe, warm place you can stay for a while.

* You can pretty easily avoid wolves by just giving them a wide berth.

* Wolves can attack you when you Rest outside, especially if you rest in one of their spawn regions. Sleeping near a fire is a good solution to avoid this problem. Allowing them to attack/interrupt outdoor activities is part of the cost/risk of those activities.

* All wildlife spawns have a % chance of spawning per game. Some are more likely to appear than others, each game. This is to allow you to get a sense (learn) where you can typically expect to find them. Outside of the well-trafficked/obvious areas (ex. where you would see corpses/carcasses and expect to find wildlife feeding on them), you may encounter them but much less frequently. This is to keep the world feeling dynamic.

* Some players have figured out how to use Wolves to hunt Deer for them.

Changes in the Pipeline

Likely in the short term...

* Incorporating the Knife (first) and Hatchet (eventually, we hope) into the Struggle mechanic.

* Tuning wolf presence in the world.

Likely in the longer term...

* (more types of wildlife that aren't wolves...)

* Making something useful from Wolf pelts/etc.

Wolves are not meant to be an enemy you actively try to tangle with. They are a deterrent and something you should avoid as much as you can. If you know you are entering an area where you expect to encounter a wolf (ex. the Dam), you go in prepared, if you can. Otherwise you take your chances and hope you can fight, and win. If you see one in the world, give it a wide berth and it will leave you alone. It may force you to take a longer route that uses up more energy, but it'll be safer in the long run. If you have to tangle with a wolf because it's a last resort, then it feels "fair" that it should be challenging.

None of this is to justify anything, only to explain how things currently work, in case that changes anything for anyone.

Thanks for all your notes about the Wolves in the game!

You are given bonus fighting value against them when carrying knife, hatchet, pry bar.

Thanks Burning Bridges about the "Wolves are not meant to be an enemy you actively try to tangle with".

Thank you for listening Hinterland, and for the quick 'balance update' !! Much appreciated

Yes, it is much better now.

I have an other suggestion:

1) Make the wolves stronger and faster that you cannot fight them with bare hands, and that even a fight with the knife is dangerous. So that a rifle becomes more of a crucial equipment, and make the ammo more scarce.

2) Make the wolves very rare, so around 2-4 per map, but also make them roam the wilderness and not be stationary.

3) Make no respawn of animals killed by the player.

The wolves pose currently little threat, but they a great source of meat. I eat in game so much wolf meat that it comes out of my ears.

I have an other suggestion:

1) Make the wolves stronger and faster that you cannot fight them with bare hands, and that even a fight with the knife is dangerous. So that a rifle becomes more of a crucial equipment, and make the ammo more scarce.

2) Make the wolves very rare, so around 2-4 per map, but also make them roam the wilderness and not be stationary.

3) Make no respawn of animals killed by the player.

The wolves pose currently little threat, but they a great source of meat. I eat in game so much wolf meat that it comes out of my ears.

Well that would make it unrealistic for one, because wolves do not actively chase humans. Not being able to fight them with your bare hands would make it impossible to survive if you encounter them when you have not found a rifle or used up all your ammo. That would be highly unsatisfactory. You would certainly be dead then, since if you make them faster, you can no longer outrun the wolves.

Additionally, with no predator respawn on a map, you can live indefinetely once you cleared them out. This would make it pretty boring if you think about it.

So no, that's not a good idea at all in my opinion.

Well that would make it unrealistic for one, because wolves do not actively chase humans. Not being able to fight them with your bare hands would make it impossible to survive if you encounter them when you have not found a rifle or used up all your ammo. That would be highly unsatisfactory. You would certainly be dead then, since if you make them faster, you can no longer outrun the wolves.

Additionally, with no predator respawn on a map, you can live indefinetely once you cleared them out. This would make it pretty boring if you think about it.

No. It would be realistic, because you cannot outrun wolves in reality and you have no chance against a wolf if you are not armed.

This canadian / northern wolves are bigger and stronger than the normal middle european wolves and much bigger than the few south european wolves. If this are Mackenzie-Wolves, then they are black or brown and really big: 2m long with a shoulder height of 80cm and they weight up to 80kg. You don't want to fight something like that with bare hands.

Also you will not have a chance to live indefinitely, because you will run out of ammo at a certain time point, and you cannot chase the deer and kill it with a knife. Also you will run out of deer and rabbits at a certain time point, because they will not respawn, if they are killed by the player. So yes i have thought about this problem.

One has to listen and look and hear for the signs of a wolf, and if the wolf is near then one should avoid a confrontation.

Currently i can live indefinitely, because the wolves are no threat to me, and they are a constant replenishing food source for me. There is no need for fear of a wolf, it is only a annoyance, and i do not even know what i should do with all the wolf meat. I have in my fridge 80kg of wolf meat. This are around 20 days that i can stay in my house, poop and read all the Newspapers that i have found.

Currently i can live indefinitely, because the wolves are no threat to me, and they are a constant replenishing food source for me. There is no need for fear of a wolf, it is only a annoyance, and i do not even know what i should do with all the wolf meat. I have in my fridge 80kg of wolf meat. This are around 20 days that i can stay in my house, poop and read all the Newspapers that i have found.

I reached a point of "no point" at 22 days, after I collected everything and moved it to base. Pushed it past 50 just to see how long my stock of scavenged food would last. I still have cans and sodas around and keeping restocking the fridge to 40kg with wolves every few days. I could probably reach 200-300 days easy, but I'm probably not determined/crazy enough. I don't expect the game to be finished and have a clear conclusion at this point, just look at it as a test platform that you can enjoy while it still makes some sense, at some point, if you're sane you will abandon the playthrough, maybe start over and try something different. You can only balance it properly when enough content and functionality is implemented, until then let's enjoy it for what it is, a next step in development and a good one at that.

I reached a point of "no point" at 22 days, after I collected everything and moved it to base. Pushed it past 50 just to see how long my stock of scavenged food would last. I still have cans and sodas around and keeping restocking the fridge to 40kg with wolves every few days. I could probably reach 200-300 days easy, but I'm probably not determined/crazy enough. I don't expect the game to be finished and have a clear conclusion at this point, just look at it as a test platform that you can enjoy while it still makes some sense, at some point, if you're sane you will abandon the playthrough, maybe start over and try something different. You can only balance it properly when enough content and functionality is implemented, until then let's enjoy it for what it is, a next step in development and a good one at that.

I have read your post concerning your achievement, this is quite similar to what i did, only with few differences. I had to shoot to wolves for a few times, but this was only due to the long way from the first map to the second. Yes i was overloaded with equipment.

I have not even searched through half of the houses, because all good and necessary equipment is in my possession, also i have skipped to go to the woodcutter camp or what its name is. But i currently have:

40kg in different clothes.

30kg in materials and tools.

10kg in various first aid things.

20kg in various foods and drinks which have a avg quality of 70%.

20l of melted and boiled water and naturally the 80kg in wolf meat. (I do not drink toilet water.) :shock:

The most interesting part was the first map, because i found rarely something good and i found no good jacket or mantle. Only in my last location on the map in the dam i found a premium winter coat.

I have stopped to play this safe, but i don't know when i will play TLD the next time, because of this wolf problem.

I love really this game, but this has ruined the game for me, because i don't play games if it is a certainty of a win for me.

And honestly i would last certainly at least the 200 days and it is pointles to play the whole time the same thing over and over again, just like you did recognised this. This game is currently about killing wolves and eating them and not about survival for me, and that makes me very very sad.

The size of the wolves is off, and their appearance, Canadian wolves:https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRpOyFRgUQvhV9KjIniaamF9jIRlF4BngqLuOzFCY3tyZEs4ff8

In comparison to a human: http://www.krugerfarms.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/wolf-21.jpg

Yeah, but that guy is actually really small...

admittedly, but it still is fairly large

Yeah, but that guy is actually really small...

He's just farther away from the camera

Relevant:

[bBvideo 560,340:pndyefc7]

Good old Father Ted... I miss that series.

Speaking of wolves. This was headline news in one of largest newspapers today:

Jytland is the largest landmass of Denmark, and 68% of the total total size of the country. And it's the only place in Denmark where a wolf has been spotted.

Hello everyone - I just made a forum account for the same reason as the original poster -

I just wanted my voice to be heard in the hopes that the game developer listens.

I think the way that wolves work in the game in its present state is unrealistic. They just seem to be everywhere and they roam back and forth where it looks unrealistic (on the ice - in the wide open for example). Also, about 20% of the time, when you leave a house there seems to be a wolf that hunts you down is heading straight for you.

This takes away from the enjoyment of the game a great deal. I think it would be more fun if you could hear wolves howling for a few nights before they showed up - so you had time to prepare for them and you knew they were stalking you down (wolves usually hunt in packs) - then eventually you had some run-ins with them but they left before you died - kind of like the bear in the movie The Edge.

Just my two cents!

I'm loving the game, thank you for the development, I'm looking forward to seeing how it progresses.

Also I agree it would be nice to have "no wolves" as an optional setting in the game. Kind of like Minecraft's "creation" mode.

I would prefer less wolfs, but give them longer aggro range....right now its unrealistically high numbers of wolfs with unrealistically short aggro ranges. Why not balance it more in favour of realism?