CoffeePilferer

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About CoffeePilferer

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  • Birthday 09/19/1974

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  1. Fabulous read and I loved how the isolation has unhinged your survivor. I kind of get The Shining vibe from some of it "You have always been the Quonset Manager", as well as a few Lovecraftian elements. With a name like TheEldritchGod, I'm surprised in all your time there you haven't delved into Cthulhu worship yet. I fancy trying that in a new run, making some sigils with sticks or stones, or shrines near Fishing Village. Hopefully with enough effort Dagon will take notice and I'll be blessed with more fish or at least my lines won't break as often.
  2. @Mroz4k Great read mate and best of luck. I do like your plan... evil overlord in charge of expendable minions. It's the best way, no attachment, no consideration, if they die there's a whole legion of useless cretins to replace them. Also ignore all whining and only feed them leftovers. Not sure about you holding me responsible though... I guess you want to blame me if it all goes horribly wrong but the truth is you really wanted to play Stalker. Was Granny Grey Mother at home? She probably has chores for you to do.
  3. I've only completed this challenge once but I did two more runs tonight to see if I could shave off more time. Both failed unfortunately but I reached TM region both times before day 1 was over. Start time can make a huge difference. Clear visibility helps. Fog not as much of an issue if you know the route. Usually I get blizzards in PV and TM. Coffee helps a bunch. Don't repair anything. Don't loot apart from coffee, emergency stims and flares, as well as better clothes. You don't need much food because you're going for speed. Couple of cans of accelerant helps too and some painkillers. Don't waste loads of time looting and only grab what you can find quickly. Always have some sticks for the next fire. Firewood you will find at places you are going to warm up, PV Cave transition, Signal Hill, Mountaineer's Hut, three way cave. Usually a good coat at Signal Hill. You can skip stopping at Camp Office and just go straight to the dam but it might make things a bit rough. Shimmying down the side of Echo Ravine is another faster and quite cheesy way of doing things. I brewed up about 18 coffees for my trip and made the summit in my second run with 5D 18H remaining. I know people can do it even faster but for me that was pretty good. Loot distress pistol, better clothes, medical container for possible stims. Skyrim slide down the mountain for more even more cheese and extra speed. 5D 2H remaining and I'm halfway through Coastal Highway and ended up near Quonset by accident and was done in by multiple wolves. Was gutted so close to beating my previous time. Not in a rush to try again, this challenge is seriously draining and stressful.
  4. @jeffpeng I can totally understand why your friend enjoys playing wolf slayer and if this were some kind of RPG where you could sell your pelts and trade them at Bartertown for coffee it might be a lot of fun (seriously devs don't ever do this). Yet killing wolves doesn't stop them re-spawning so at some point it feels like a waste, you're never thinning the pack and you're literally drowning in things you'll never use. But like you said it's way too easy. To be fair though I'm glad Voyageur exists as an option because in my case it would have been really off putting to start on Stalker. Totally agree on the rifle. Even when I equipped it I hardly used it, but I clung to it like a lifeline and eventually it started to jinx me due to limiting my carry weight. In fairness it's alright as a noisy maker but it never scares off wolves for long. Hilariously enough looking at some of my early screenshots I'm holding it in every single one. I prefer carrying a couple of flares now instead and being far more mindful of my surroundings. Glad the tapeworm amused. Alternatively it's a xenomorph parasite and we're all eating for two. Coughs, splutters. convulses... chest explodes. "Hey come on Jennifer those sardines were 22% condition". Not often I inspire anyone so thank you! In truth your comments inspired me to rethink my whole approach and I'm getting so much more out of the experience now. The wolf fear is definitely to an extent irrational but I am wary of how much damage they can do and don't like running into them. As long as you know where they frequent you'll be fine mate. Since you've been playing this way longer than me it shouldn't be an issue. I'm still caught out often due to my own lack of map knowledge but that problem will lessen in time. So you're holed up at Camp Office, tell me do you have frozen Bob upstairs keeping you company, or is your home thankfully corpse free on this run? I don't see why Stalker wouldn't be fun for you and I was extremely surprised by how close you can get to wolves when crouched. But when three or four of them at a time are sniffing around nearby it can feel a bit troubling. I suppose where you start will really determine how enjoyable the run is. I'm a big fan of DP>CH>ML even though it took 3 attempts to finally decide on that. Mainly because DP is so out of the way, there's the chance of the hammer, bow and hacksaw and it's pretty pointless to return to since you also have the forge in FM. Plus early coal which helps so much with Stalkers fire temperature problem. I would never do TM first even if I could pull it off on this difficulty because all that loot seems more mid to end game for me and if you did it from the start you wouldn't feel at all threatened. On Voyageur after TM and double expedition parka loot too many areas felt really straightforward with the exception of BR. I also think that while loot is lesser than Voyageur what I've found is more appreciated and valued higher. I've found two army coats so far and the archery book which I never found in my other runs. Fishing Village seems a good stop off point, relatively low risk, plenty of cloth in the cabins. Workbench outside for crafting arrows, plus fishing huts. Loads of wood from the pallets, good chance of a hatchet. Plus you're not far off from heading up the frozen stream and stocking up on cat tails for food and tinder.Birch in that area too. Quonset on the other hand can go to hell and I'll stick to avoiding wolf town. Good shortcut straight up the slope from FV to the exit road to Ravine region and has been wolf free on every trip so far. I'll certainly say that BR, HRV, FM wouldn't be fun starts for me on this mode. Milton is doable but seems wiser as an excursion from Trappers. Just my thoughts and everything is open to revision.
  5. So on to attempts 2 and 3 which are really short but just prove that when you're new to TLD things spiral out of control quickly. Operation Drunken Frozen Popsicle with Lemon: Second Attempt This expedition started well and involved far less blundering than the previous attempt. The weather was clear and thankfully blizzard free until Pleasant Valley. Luckily the weather only changed when I reached the abandoned Prepper’s bunker. I stayed for a couple of hours not wanting to go to TM in a blizzard. I still made good time to the mountain and reached the summit by the morning of day 2. This time I only took much needed clothing and the distress pistol from the plane. Sadly the weather changed and grew foggy. Visibility was an absolute nightmare and I got angry with myself after going off in some random direction after climbing down a few of the ropes. Having got lost again and finding myself frustrated, my awareness became lacking and I was promptly wolf savaged. I think it might have smelt the chocolates in my pocket. Does the big bad wolf like candy? Apparently not, especially when better more succulent juicy treats are on offer. I fought it off but it came back, dogging me like a bad smell and then attacked me again sensing my weakness. I had a bandage but nothing to deal with infection. I knew this run was over so I made a fire and hoped to die in my sleep… it was not to be. I woke up freezing and wandering around, my vision all blurry and it seemed like my character had been taking far too many swigs from their super-secret hip flask. What was extremely trippy was the closer I tried to get to the campfire the further away my character ended up, which was both hilarious and tragically pitiful. A couple of minutes of playing the wander around the campfire party trick and listening to Jennifer curse and whimper, I fell into the snow and darkness took me. Operation Misplaced Arrogance: Third attempt At this point while I was loving this challenge it was seriously starting to annoy me and I started to consider that I didn’t have enough experience to complete it. But I’m one of these people who doesn’t like to give up and will keep putting myself through an ordeal over and over again. Sadly the weather didn’t want to play ball and was horrific the entire way to Timberwolf, and since I’m still new to the maps it was easy to get lost. Especially when once more dealing with blizzards or freezing fog. Frustration leads to anger and that leads to more problems in this game… you end up doing crazy reckless things. It’s fair to say many mistakes were made so I told myself in future I need to keep a level head. Thankfully I discovered the value of coffee on this trip and figured out how much I could push myself. I made the summit without issues but the weather remained terrible. I actually managed to get back to Pleasant Valley this time which no surprise was blizzard central yet again. I think I was nearly at the derelict cabins and I must have got cocky because a wolf jumped me and ended my trip. Another failure but positive considering I was getting further with each attempt.
  6. @BareSkin Thanks mate. The cooking for me was pretty straightforward because I only bought it this year on sale and finally got playing about 2 weeks ago. I was very mindful of comments I'd read saying how easy it was to accidentally eat uncooked meat so for days I was constantly checking to make sure I was only placing food. I guess if you've been playing this game since the beginning certain changes might be awkward to adjust to. I first saw TLD years ago when I lived in a different town because a friend showed me the early access and introduced me firsthand to Fluffy. I remember wood gathering was menu based and there were only three regions then. Also everything was really grey in colour and you'd completely miss containers which literally blended with the snow.
  7. Thanks for the advice. The more I play the game I have started to realise the same thing. I need to have general goals I want to fulfil to keep me occupied. If I decide to go and do something and the weather or wildlife is not going to play ball, then I need to adapt or leave it for another day. Once again all your advice is greatly appreciated. Initially Stalker was a bit of a shock to the system after playing Voyageur for 30 hours and my first two runs were over quickly. At present in my new run I'm doing alright, I'm adjusting and have survived a mere 12 days. I don't like the extra wolves but I am learning how to avoid them and they aren't as big a deal as I thought as long as I'm careful. You'll be pleased to know I'm no longer panicking and running around like a headless chicken but here's the thing... I'm really enjoying myself. I like the harshness of this mode and it isn't really that bad as long as I give consideration to what I'm doing. Increased map knowledge counts for a lot too and that was a key factor in previous runs causing me to do something stupid when I didn't know an area. In addition I've learned to ignore the audio prompts whining about hunger and cold because they used to make me feel my situation was far more dire than it actually was. They can moan and nag all they want (pretty sure they have a tapeworm considering how much they eat) but in response I think "well you're getting your 600 calories for supper and no more, so deal with it!" Like you said it's important to keep a clear head and I'm approaching things differently. I take my time now because I know how much I can get away with in terms of bad weather and condition loss. Why rush when I can spend a couple of minutes listening and watching before taking a particular path, which in most cases is the wiser healthier option. The current run has the goal of becoming self-sufficient and then I want to live in the wilds for a bit. Like you there's something about Forlorn Muskeg I enjoy so I want to head that way eventually. Start was DP, looted lighthouse, church, Hibernia, No. 5 CM and Riken. Crafted my arrows, have my birch curing. Have the bow already because I got lucky with the spawn. My routine has become varied. At present I'm at the Fishing Village in CH. I've cleaned out Misanthrope's, Jackrabbit, the coastal houses. I was thinking about Quonset but honestly there's nothing I need there so the risk isn't worth it. Some days I go out and collect cat tails, then mend things in the afternoon. Or I read my skill books or fish for a bit. Most recent trip was up to the lookout simply because I wanted to watch the sunset. I sat there for a good fifteen minutes just enjoying the sights and sounds, I had a vape and it was a pleasant zen experience. Next time I do that I'll have a glass of whisky too. As you can see I do appreciate it and I realise now that the goal is really to have fun with the time you have left in any particular run rather than merely continue on and on, although that can be it's own reward too. Once I've got my arrows crafted I'm moving to the ravine and plan to stay there a few days, then on to ML and then FM if everything goes to plan. I only going to use Trapper's as an outpost because I prefer to be outside as much as possible. Thanks for the response. Funnily enough my gaming tastes have changed over the years and I really enjoy anything that seems like work so TLD is a good fit for me. I just find that sort of thing more immersive, as if I'm living a different life. When someone suggested a year ago that I try a tucking game I laughed until I started playing it and got addicted to the routine. In regards to TLD I think what was making things boring is that Voyageur felt too safe, the consequences of mistakes were less punishing and rather than challenge myself by increasing the difficulty, I got stuck in a rut. Stalker seems the right fit for me so far and any progress I make feels well earned. And yes I think I will try Interloper eventually. My biggest fear was the lack of the rifle but I've been without one in my current Stalker run so far and I don't feel I need it. In a way it became like a safety net to me and since I'm a really crap shot not an especially useful one.
  8. @Pillock Well you're either a very good influence or a bad one because I just tried Stalker, random location and OMG! This mode makes Voyageur feel like a happy jaunt through the woods and seems almost soothing. The fact that the fire takes time and more fuel to get up to temperature is exactly like you said and makes a massive difference, as does it's heat radius. You can't rely on it anymore as a super quick fix. I made it almost through the 5th day before I.... expired. But on the plus side of things I didn't feel safe for a second and wasn't bored because I had plenty to do. I even applied everything I've been told exactly up to the point where things went a little wrong. The more severe injuries are especially awesome. Definitely more wolves about, not drastically so but they felt more like small packs rather than isolated stragglers, as yet I have no idea how great their detection range is so I gave them a very wide berth. One things for sure I'm definitely going to need much more practice.
  9. So difficult to just pick one. I love the art style, the sound design, the immersion and Permadeath. Then there's the fact I become so invested and get very emotional about what happens. Most of all I think my favourite thing is the false sense of security. In the blink of an eye things can go from simple to being on the brink of death. Sit in relative safety for too long and get too cushy... you forget how dangerous things are. Plan to stay out late chopping wood longer than necessary because you want to stockpile... well now you're lost in a blizzard. Need your character to have a quick bite to eat but don't inspect the wrappers best before date... have fun with food poisoning. Want all that shiny stuff right now... say hello to the wolf pack who love to snack on prey that overburdens itself.
  10. @Mroz4k Thanks for the welcome and all of your helpful suggestions. When I say bored it was mainly due to repeating my routine and having given that plenty of thought recently I know I could have done something different at any time. I would say I fell into a habit. Most likely I think it’s the sense of immersion the game gives me and why I feel compelled to do my chores in a specific order. My last character, well she died in a particular nasty way and strangely enough it hurt like hell and at the time I somehow totally forgot about Permadeath. As for interloper at my current level of experience I’m certain that isn’t for me. Cat tail diet, no rifles, homemade knives/hatchets and a lack of matches seems like some weird form of masochism other people might enjoy. I was tempted to play on stalker but I don’t really want the increased amount of wolves. Harsher weather and scarcer loot, reduced condition recovery and greater chance of injury I would certainly enjoy. So maybe my next run will be custom. I do try to enjoy the scenery because I love the art style and I like to wander up to the forestry lookout to watch the sunset, but the last time I did that I decided to eat a left over candy bar and got food poisoning. I didn’t even wait to check the condition, my character was whining again "really Jennifer you had venison earlier" and in a moment of impatience I just wanted to feed her so she'd shut up. So this is really what I meant by random things jinxing me for not paying enough attention when I already know better. What I am very curious about is if you can recognise weather changes occurring in this game by sky colour. I noticed that crows flying in a straight line usually indicate a weather state change but beyond that it doesn’t seem predictable as to what weather you actually get. Too often I worry about blizzard conditions or thick fog so it’s now a habit of mine to have enough stuff to make a snow shelter if needed. I think this is a really good point and to an extent the gamer in me wants to survive as long as possible but by the same token staying in one place doesn’t really feel like I’m experiencing things. Broken Railroad wasn’t planned as a hoarding trip. It just became an extension of my visit to Forlorn Muskeg and if I really thought about it I should have left it for another day because I was pushing myself too hard. The problem was when I had to shelter in the maintenance shed and found so much stuff there. I was like a kid in a candy store. Then to make matters worse I went to the Hunting Lodge, found more gear and stupidly thought I’d have no problem hauling it back. The three wolves I ran into had other ideas… then the other two I ran into later just made matters worse. I knew it was nuts but that didn’t stop me doing it, thankfully I only just survived by the skin of my teeth. Truth is I don’t like BR at all, I feel too hemmed in and there are bad sight lines so it’s easy to get ambushed. MT was far more tolerable and had good loot, was useful to haul things to the park office near the rope point rather than burdening myself. And even though its wolf infested you can stand on hills and scope out the streets first. I suspect I’ve played far too much Fallout and Elder Scrolls over the years so I have a tendency to be a pack rat and grab everything that isn’t nailed down. But as you say I pretty much have all the time in the world to get these things, it’s not like anyone else will scavenge it. The tip about not looting containers is something I didn’t know about it. I just assumed all man made food supplies would perish over time but that only seems to apply to stuff in the open or examined containers. So next time I’ll try to stick to just taking what I need that’s lying around in plain sight. I’ve been thinking about outposts for a while but not got around to doing anything about it. It makes good sense to just leave some cat tails, water and wood, as well as bandages and old man beard’s dressing so if I make a mistake hauling too much again I’ll be much closer to a safe place. I guess I should do that to break up my routine. Overstocking is a problem sometimes. I could open a fresh water shop with my reserves. I also think trapping rabbits isn’t worth it in calories, so beyond the pelts for the gloves (which I have now) and the guts are useful. Good news is that I have my wolf coat, deer leggings and boots, as well as the rabbit fur mittens. Waiting on some guts to cure for my moose pack. I think I’m going back to TM. I like it there, it makes me feel just scared enough to pay attention to what's going on without feeling I’m in the heart of wolf central like Quonset garage. I’ll look up that Dick Proenneke too, I like survival movies/documentaries.
  11. I'm sure. Perhaps if this was any other game I'm sure at some point I'd definitely ask for it and I do certainly appreciate you offering, but I seem to learn more by screwing up, at least that way it completely sinks in. The first run was definitely bad but I think posting the different entries will show that I learnt things from my failures over time, so perhaps that's helpful to rookies like me who get frustrated when this challenge goes totally wrong for them.
  12. Hi folks. What follows are the chronicles of my Hopeless Rescue attempts. I hope they make for amusing reading. I’ll stick to one post for each attempt or this will be too lengthy to read. Plus I'll space them out a bit in case my grisly deaths don't sufficiently entertain you. Operation Ineptitude of the Ringbearer: First attempt This expedition was full of blundering, bad planning and a complete lack of direction. In my arrogance I suspect I wasn’t taking things that seriously… I mean how hard could it be? It’s a game it can be beaten, no problem at all. Funnily enough it was surprisingly hard, especially when you don’t even know the way to the Timberwolf region. How I wished that I had a wise council to guide me, gave me companions to take the brunt of the dangers and actually show me a map first. In a different fantasy themed game I might have asked a passing moose for directions when I got confused, “Excuse me kind sir, that’s a marvellous set of antlers you’ve got, but is this the way to Timberwolf Mountain?” To which he might have responded “Nope this is Coastal Highway, you damn tourist”, before then charging me and breaking my ribs as moose do, reminding me that the game I'm really playing has deadly consequences. Given that magical moose purely exist in the mind of the delusional, starving and frostbitten adventurer who has seriously lost their way in the Canadian wilderness, it’s fair to say that I was completely doomed from the beginning. Now in fairness I got as far as Timberwolf, which is something I guess even though I did it in a very roundabout way. I pushed myself to the summit but took far too many risks. In addition I couldn’t resist the lure of all the shiny stuff and I collected as much loot as I could get my grubby torn mittens on. Every step of the way I became beckoned by a new and shiny token left by the roadside. A box of matches you say… a can of soda… even just a stick would become an interesting distraction to stuff into my pack. Yet all this takes time, weighs down my pack and increases risk, so why on earth was I even picking up these things? To seriously misquote Boromir who also ended badly, “It is a stupid fate indeed to suffer so much wasted time, encumbrance and misdirection over such small and worthless things". I was clearly out of my tree on this trip playing random sightseer on a nature ramble and boy did I pay for it! As a new player I certainly found the layout of Timberwolf Mountain very confusing. Like Mordor one does not simply wander around Timberwolf blind. It's jagged peak is guarded by more than just wolves, the very air chills the blood and flays skin from bones in minutes, and all around is empty frozen wilderness. Not with 10000 MRE's can a witless fool accomplish anything... it would be folly. When you're lost in the dark ,there is no help there... just pain and death... well apart from one cabin with a roof that is in desperate need of a joiner. I got hypothermia as a reward for my lack of knowledge and then frostbite too, all because I dithered at the summit. When I got down things got much worse… I was promptly mauled by a bear who in response to my sheer hubris thinking I could even complete this challenge decided to reward my ineptitude by not killing me… no that would be too easy… too quick. Instead this generous bear prolonged my suffering and left me within an inch of my life. I bandaged myself up and yet again went the wrong way in my delirium. As a word of warning folks, don’t try to cross a log over a deep ravine while suffering from frostbite and blood loss because you’ll stagger around like the town drunk and slip off that log into the oblivion of the long dark, just like this foolish traveller did. At least when Gandalf fell off the bridge he did it in style and was buying time for his friends… I on the other hand felt like an ass!
  13. @s7mar7in Thanks for the welcome. I've found myself in that position of having to take a risky shot far too often and I seem to forget how good wolves are at zigzagging and how bad I am with the rifle when tired. I find that's really the double edged sword of going on these little adventures to break the routine because if you're not careful they end up costing you more than you might gain and sometimes afterwards I consider what a waste they were. But if you don't do them things can quickly become too mundane and at another level it can feel like you really aren't playing the game to its full potential. So I definitely agree better planning is needed. I really need to keep these trips focused and more limited in scope. I think I should make better use of the journal and write mission plans that I stick to. I should also put "Do not deviate from this plan in the slightest. To do so will result in your gruesome death". Maybe then I'll take far more notice. Regarding your other point it's funny how the random loot can mess with your plans, I've lost count of how many prybars there are in my current game but I haven't found many whetstones at all. I hadn't actually read that MailBag post when I made this thread, but having looked through it now Raphael definitely was spot on with this, "Even if you store tons of supplies and hunker down in your favourite place and just pass time for days and days...you're going to go crazy and need to get outside and...maybe do something risky just to feel alive again." That is exactly how I feel at times playing this game and it's brilliant how well the daily tedium of playing safe makes you almost compelled to take chances again. I really wish there were psychological consequences which affected the character more when you hunker down for too long rather than just cabin fever. But then again you only have to read threads like one about the hilarious Quonset Manager to see how quickly some survivors go a bit bonkers when they spend too long in isolation. As for the Cartographer achievement I might give that a go at some point but I really don't like the way time accelerates when mapping and I nearly ended up as wolf food as a result. I think for the moment I might just break up my survival game a bit by doing the Whiteout challenge. I've certainly got no desire to go back into BR anytime soon. Well that's good to hear because if you've played that much and you're still getting into those situations I will worry about it less. Perhaps the notable difference is that you're probably far more likely to survive any misadventures than I am. You're right though it is fun when you get into trouble, all the stress, paranoia when lost in a blizzard that you've gone the wrong way and that constant thought that if I die it's game over. Wouldn't change it for the world.
  14. Hi everyone, I’m really enjoying TLD and have put 30 hours in so far. Like most new players I made plenty of mistakes but I have tried to learn from them so as to keep that to a minimum in my most recent survival game. I’ve currently survived 52 days (Voyageur) and I’ve noticed a pattern of behaviour or more correctly a trap which has happened in all my other games. After so long of staying in one place doing typical daily chores I quickly start to grow bored with the whole routine. Now this isn’t a criticism of the game, just an observation of my habits and to be honest the routine is entirely of my own making. I don’t have to follow the pattern of chop wood>light stove>melt snow>boil water>eat cooked venison from behind the cabin>mend clothes>drink water>sleep, but I somehow get fixated on that. In most cases I don't need to do it anyway because I have a massive stockpile, but somehow I think "I always need more!" A very noticeable fact is this whole tedium after so long actually causes me to act out/rebel just for some much needed variation. Sadly this variation is when things typically go awry and all the careful learned survival lessons are literally thrown out of the cabin window. Such is the immersion that in a way it seems to me that I very much become stir crazy and have contracted cabin fever long before my character ever suffers. So I go out on some random expedition for a change of scenery and do something daft which in previous games has ended in a very grisly way. The previous survival game it was the lunatic notion that instead of shooting a deer like I originally planned, I decided to take on the bear which just happened by. Opportunistic gambles like that don’t make a lot of sense after being so careful up that point. Another moment of insanity was in this current game when I decided it was about time to travel all the way to Broken Railroad, which I might add I have never explored before. All the while collecting every bit of shiny loot I can stuff into my pack along the way like some greedy magpie... even though I've repeatedly told myself to travel light. I wouldn't mind but this trip had a clear goal at the start "go find the forge in Forlorn Muskeg", yet it deviated from a simple achievable task to an elaborate risk filled adventure which almost ended very badly. What causes this dramatic shift in behaviour, is it complacency? Have I grown sick of my character constantly whining about being hungry when she ate three extremely tasty moose steaks this morning and I'm trying to kill her off? Or is it more of the case that staying in the vicinity of somewhere safe for too long really does dull your survival smarts? I mean it’s really dangerous out there so why would I suddenly forget that and need a close call to wake up me up to reality? Or is it simply boredom of self-imposed routine? Perhaps in my case it's lack of experience. The thing is when I choose to play the game always on the move I don’t seem to fall into this trap because I always feel I’m on edge and looking over my shoulder so I won't die horribly. Yet that whole mind set helps me to play the game better. I also took a great deal of care when I finally completed Hopeless Rescue on my fourth attempt and learnt a lot from it. So perhaps the best solution for me is snow shelters or open cave living, at least that way I'm constantly exposed to and aware of the risks. Sitting in one place it seems that the greatest danger is really myself. I’m curious does anyone else abandon all common sense at times like this and if so how do you guard against it in future runs?