What about clothes?


Wasteland Watcher

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5 minutes ago, Wasteland Watcher said:

LOVE this idea!! :)

 

21 minutes ago, Raphael van Lierop said:

That's an interesting idea!

 Sorry for going off topic but I believe North American Indians used birch bark as a bandage, I've used sphagnum (bog moss) on a bad blister once and whilst not as super absorbent tree moss has similar properties.

Back on topic I was wondering recently if it might be useful to keep a second set of inferior clothes for hunting after losing my best pants in a bear attack.  Then someone mentioned on steam hunt naked to prevent durability loss.  Guess it's calculated much like in an MMO and wanting to avoid eqpt damage from NPC's in enemy territory.

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29 minutes ago, illanthropist said:

 

 

 Sorry for going off topic but I believe North American Indians used birch bark as a bandage, I've used sphagnum (bog moss) on a bad blister once and whilst not as super absorbent tree moss has similar properties.

Back on topic I was wondering recently if it might be useful to keep a second set of inferior clothes for hunting after losing my best pants in a bear attack.  Then someone mentioned on steam hunt naked to prevent durability loss.  Guess it's calculated much like in an MMO and wanting to avoid eqpt damage from NPC's in enemy territory.

I'm not sure how the game is engineered regarding clothing actually protecting one from lacerations and so this may sound stupid crazy but whenever I start a sandbox and intend to melee fight a wolf I strip naked once I'm within 100 feet and then go for it.  Sometimes I'm injured and sometimes not, but my clothes are okay for sure.

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1 minute ago, illanthropist said:

Knowing my luck if I was to try it the wolf would probably run off with my long johns or a hotfix will make that happen to nerf people exploiting mechanics ;)

Personally I like playing "realistically" so I feel I need socks and underwear (long johns) to go with my deerskin boots, pants, and wolf skin coat.

But...I've started feeling like I won't repair socks or underwear anymore. I'll wear them until they completely wear out, then make bandages from the rags. I'll miss my wool socks. I really love those.
But unless we get another method for bandaging wounds I won't repair them anymore.

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7 minutes ago, Wasteland Watcher said:

Personally I like playing "realistically" so I feel I need socks and underwear (long johns) to go with my deerskin boots, pants, and wolf skin coat.

But...I've started feeling like I won't repair socks or underwear anymore. I'll wear them until they completely wear out, then make bandages from the rags. I'll miss my wool socks. I really love those.
But unless we get another method for bandaging wounds I won't repair them anymore.

Haven't gotten that far into the game, I've tended to save higher tier stuff and harvest lower quality as and when get the chance.  One thing I did notice is the crafted leather having little at start to no use once you surpass a certain level of play.

I think it might have been nice to be able to "reinforce" an outer garment using these for increased durability, ie patching the knees and elbows or at least as an alternative to cloth for crafting improvised tools.

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1 hour ago, illanthropist said:

Haven't gotten that far into the game, I've tended to save higher tier stuff and harvest lower quality as and when get the chance.  One thing I did notice is the crafted leather having little at start to no use once you surpass a certain level of play.

I think it might have been nice to be able to "reinforce" an outer garment using these for increased durability, ie patching the knees and elbows or at least as an alternative to cloth for crafting improvised tools.

I'd welcome reinforced clothes. I agree on leather not having any use once you've decided not to repair shoes anymore (as far as I've seen so far anyhow).

I really like your idea on birch bark and lichen for a makeshift bandage. We can use cured guts for line to hold it on as well. 

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8 hours ago, Wasteland Watcher said:

For long term survival I'm under the impression that maintaining "civilized" clothing is bad: using pieces of cloth is better used for bandages rather than for clothing which will eventually wear out.

Thoughts?

I tend to agree to your strategy. Definitely wouldn't recommend harvesting all clothes right at the beginning just to get some cloth for bandages. As you've mentioned yourself later on, it's better to wear premade clothes until they deteriorate to 0% as you can still harvest them afterwards for the same amount of cloth. If you harvest them right away, you so to say waste their potential temperature bonus. Plus, there are also various other sources of cloth (pillows, curtains, armchairs, etc.) that have their sole use as bandage materials. It's better to start bandage crafting with these and only fall back on clothes once they've worn out.

Don't get me wrong, premade clothes (and even clothes in general) aren't a necessity to survive for experienced players, they merely make it a little easier. But if you want to use all resources as efficiently as possible for a leaderboard run, harvesting all clothes once they've worn out would be my advice. (Not sure if it really makes a difference, though. It's really unlikely imho to die in a leaderboard run because you lack bandages or clothing. Boredom, recklessness or a lack of medicine (antibiotics/antiseptic) are much more likely to kill you.:winky: )

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36 minutes ago, Scyzara said:

I tend to agree to your strategy. Definitely wouldn't recommend harvesting all clothes right at the beginning just to get some cloth for bandages. As you've mentioned yourself later on, it's better to wear premade clothes until they deteriorate to 0% as you can still harvest them afterwards for the same amount of cloth. If you harvest them right away, you so to say waste their potential temperature bonus. Plus, there are also various other sources of cloth (pillows, curtains, armchairs, etc.) that have their sole use as bandage materials. It's better to start bandage crafting with these and only fall back on clothes once they've worn out.

Don't get me wrong, premade clothes (and even clothes in general) aren't a necessity to survive for experienced players, they merely make it a little easier. But if you want to use all resources as efficiently as possible for a leaderboard run, harvesting all clothes once they've worn out would be my advice. (Not sure if it really makes a difference, though. It's really unlikely imho to die in a leaderboard run because you lack bandages or clothing. Boredom, recklessness or a lack of medicine (antibiotics/antiseptic) are much more likely to kill you.:winky: )

Recklessness! That's kind of my middle name ;) 

I keep my 'civilian clothes' until I've made my animal skin 'uniform' and from there I shred anything I can't wear with my uniform. I really really like having wool socks...and underwear. I also like the knit cap and muffler but I won't be repairing those either:|

I'd totally forgotten about curtains because I spend so much time at Mystery Lake. I've only been to three maps but ML is my favorite so far. I need to make a trip to Pleasant Valley!

Cheers for the reminder:coffee::)

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6 hours ago, illanthropist said:

Wherever possible I guess so, though there is no alternative for underwear and hat/scarf.  It's a shame a combination of old mans beard and birch bark can't be used for making bandages long term.

3 lichen + bark + cordage = antiseptic bandage which could be field made.

What could we make into underwear? fine cordage could be woven I suppose.

Or you could stuff your clothing with grass for extra insulation. This is a real survival thing!! A very very important tip to save your life if you break down in the winter some distance from shelter.

The very best mitts we could get when I was a kid growing up in the Alberta winters, was moose hide mitts with woolen liners. They work great in the cold because they won't get wet. In warmer weather, mitts always get wet if you have to handle snow. Ski gloves keep pretty dry but are not as good as mitts.

If we had a bone awl and sinew for thread, we could stitch leather for mitts in the game. Or fashion woolen liners from cloth using the sewing kit.

Some sort of improvised head covering would be really nice especially a nice rabbit hat, say four pelts to fashion a hat? Or one wolf pelt or two fox pelts.

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  • Hinterland
14 hours ago, Wasteland Watcher said:

I'm not sure how the game is engineered regarding clothing actually protecting one from lacerations and so this may sound stupid crazy but whenever I start a sandbox and intend to melee fight a wolf I strip naked once I'm within 100 feet and then go for it.  Sometimes I'm injured and sometimes not, but my clothes are okay for sure.

Clothing does offer protection during Wolf struggles.

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I don't think it's always the best strategy to wait until the clothes deteriorate to 0%. Clothes in such a bad state give almost no temperature bonus, they would only weigh you down...

I tracked degradation rates of various types of clothes (normal degradation, not due to a wolf attack) for some time and concluded that if you want to get maximum temperature bonus while saving cloth, the pieces to keep are heavy wool sweater and basic wool scarf. They offer the best bonuses compared to their maintenance requirements.

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58 minutes ago, Raphael van Lierop said:

 

 

15 hours ago, Wasteland Watcher said:

I'm not sure how the game is engineered regarding clothing actually protecting one from lacerations and so this may sound stupid crazy but whenever I start a sandbox and intend to melee fight a wolf I strip naked once I'm within 100 feet and then go for it.  Sometimes I'm injured and sometimes not, but my clothes are okay for sure.

 

58 minutes ago, Raphael van Lierop said:

Clothing does offer protection during Wolf struggles.

But if that protection is only to offer clothing damage as a possible outcome instead of flesh, it is seldom "economically" ideal in the current system.

Repairing clothes requires gathering specific tools for the task, consumes non-infinite cloth and metal, and especially requires dedicated activity. 

Flesh is cured by combination of eating, drinking and sleeping, activities I would have performed regardless with materials that are renewable/perpetual.  The only real threat from wounding flesh is the chance of infection and multiple tools exist to mitigate that (and only that, these tools are useless otherwise).

The only way to make clothing damage a preferable outcome is to make clothes easier to repair than it is to restore condition.  Since it is already pretty easy, I guess healing condition would have to be made harder...

EDIT: I guess infection treatments could be made more scarce, too.

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  • Hinterland

The Condition-damage inflicted during the Struggle (which is "event" dependent) is reduced due to wearing clothing. You can't only think about it as a Flesh vs. Clothing repair issue. When your Condition is compromised, this has cascading effects on myriad other systems, and makes you vulnerable to...well...everything. In the short-term, a "save the clothing before saving Condition" may seem like the right choice, but long-term, it almost never is.

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1 hour ago, Drifter Man said:

I don't think it's always the best strategy to wait until the clothes deteriorate to 0%. Clothes in such a bad state give almost no temperature bonus, they would only weigh you down...

I tracked degradation rates of various types of clothes (normal degradation, not due to a wolf attack) for some time and concluded that if you want to get maximum temperature bonus while saving cloth, the pieces to keep are heavy wool sweater and basic wool scarf. They offer the best bonuses compared to their maintenance requirements.

Great point. I also think highly of the heavy wool sweater and scarf. The toque or knit cap, and sock & underwear of course,  I like out of real-life habit. 
I may keep the heavy wool sweater due to its light weight+decent warmth bonus. Thanks for pointing that out!

50 minutes ago, Raphael van Lierop said:

The Condition-damage inflicted during the Struggle (which is "event" dependent) is reduced due to wearing clothing. You can't only think about it as a Flesh vs. Clothing repair issue. When your Condition is compromised, this has cascading effects on myriad other systems, and makes you vulnerable to...well...everything. In the short-term, a "save the clothing before saving Condition" may seem like the right choice, but long-term, it almost never is.

Very good point, which is why I only do it very early game -- when the clothes I've got are the only thing allowing me to go out to gather wood and find food and when I need wolf pelts to make a wolf skin coat.

After I've got that wolf-skin coat I never disrobe for a fight, and I actively avoid wolves+carry bait+carry torches--so I can save my antibiotics and bandages for unintended fights. Like you said, for the long-term.

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On 2/26/2016 at 6:18 AM, Raphael van Lierop said:

Clothing does offer protection during Wolf struggles.

Raphael, I'm really curious:

After you've gotten the fur clothes, do you repair your "civilized" clothes?  For example, do you wear wool socks with your deerskin boots, and use cloth to repair those socks when they've gone down to say 40% condition, or do you just use the cloth for making additional bandages?

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  • Hinterland
15 hours ago, Wasteland Watcher said:

Raphael, I'm really curious:

After you've gotten the fur clothes, do you repair your "civilized" clothes?  For example, do you wear wool socks with your deerskin boots, and use cloth to repair those socks when they've gone down to say 40% condition, or do you just use the cloth for making additional bandages?

I tend to only repair things that I highly value, which I know or expect to use or need. I don't like depending solely on crafted clothing b/c you never know what might happen and the replacement time can be quite signifiant, so having a good set of repaired "civilized" clothes as a back-up is a very good idea. Then again, I have a psychological aversion to running around the world naked, that not all of our players share. :)

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28 minutes ago, Raphael van Lierop said:

I tend to only repair things that I highly value, which I know or expect to use or need. I don't like depending solely on crafted clothing b/c you never know what might happen and the replacement time can be quite signifiant, so having a good set of repaired "civilized" clothes as a back-up is a very good idea. Then again, I have a psychological aversion to running around the world naked, that not all of our players share. :)

I agree. Even when I have a full set of crafted clothes (augmented with non-crafted clothing for all those items we can't create (yet)), I always try to keep a full set of non crafted clothes as a backup. I even go so far to keep at least 1 light wool sweater and 1 heavy wool sweater and 1 light jacket (like the skiing jacket) and 1 heavy jacket (like the marine pea coat). That way I can choose if I want to wear warm but heavy clothes or if the weather permits and I need to carry a lot of stuff I can wear lighter clothes. I also mix and match crafted and non-crafted clothes to get the warmth I need for the least weight.

Like others have mentioned, I generally do wear all non-crafted clothes until their condition have dropped to the point I find them useless and only harvest them then. A lot of the time you don't really need the warmth bonuses a full set of crafted clothes provide, especially when you're operating near your main base.

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