1000 Days in the Dam: An exercise in inventory control

[Drifter Man]

7 hours ago, Ruruwawa said:

A little more fishing information.  I crafted two new lines and both broke pretty fast: 15 hours and 16 hours respectively. Also, fewer fish caught hour by hour until I was mostly getting nothing - I think my TWM spot is currently fished out.

This is interesting. I would expect similar mechanic to be applied to rabbits, but my rabbit areas showed no signs of depletion even after 50 days of intensive use. Did you do your fishing in one go, without reloading the game? There was a bug in TWM that prevented sticks from respawning unless the game was reloaded. What if something similar affects fish?

7 hours ago, Ruruwawa said:

One more variable to factor in: fishing is pretty easy on the calories and fatigue.  On voyageur it's 112 kcal/hr -- vs 228 kcal/hr for harvesting meat from a 51% frozen rabbit with a hacksaw.  (Fishing on Pilgrim is 62 kcal/hr, Stalker is 100 kcal/hr.)  Fatigue seems moderate too (about like standing around) although I haven't figure out how to measure it yet.

Yes, calories are a factor, too. Standing around also takes 112 Cal/hr on Voyageur, so fishing is probably the same. On the other hand, for those 228 Cal/hr of harvesting rabbits you get 6 kg of rabbit meat = 2700 Cal. So you can't compare these numbers directly, although snaring rabbits is definitely harder work in terms of fatigue and calories than fishing.

7 hours ago, Ruruwawa said:

I don't really want to turn this into a wolf hunting thread but in this situation there are three things that help me a lot with the current wolf AI.  First is the wolf is truly charging, (running at full speed) light a flare and brandish it when the wolf is close.  It's fairly successful at scaring him away.  I often preemptively light a flare if I'm in a situation where a wolf might notice me.  Also, crouch when he's fleeing to prevent him from targeting you again. 

Better still, if you have accelerant, speed-light a fire.  Since the AI changes I've never had a wolf NOT flee from a fire.  I've cooked meals, boiled water, etc for hours at a fire right on the patrol path of two wolves, who kept fleeing when they got close.  I crouch while at the fire, too.

If the wolf is just growling and homing in on you at a walk, Drop Decoy is very good now.  It's not the magic spell of Paralyze that drop torch used to be, but it slows him enough to kill with an arrow.

The thing is, I'm really bad at things that have to be done quickly. I usually fumble and click the wrong thing or miss the button - when the wolf is charging, it is usually too late for me. It was plain luck that I took aim and hit with my rifle. Thanks for the tips, however

[Drifter Man]

7 hours ago, nicko said:

how many days in dam to date?

672 days in the Dam, currently. Actually, after the recent updates that lowered bedroll decay rate significantly, and with all the stuff I've hauled over from CH, I could stay in the Dam for over 4000 days in a row, in theory. But right now I feel like exploring a bit  V.339 is working fine with my sandbox.

[Drifter Man]

Day 753

For the purpose of a general attack on Hibernia Processing, I'm assuming temporary command of the Riken. She's somewhat rusty and rolls a bit in a seaway, but she will do fine! After taking a broadside from the Riken, this bear will sail no more (almost 40 kg of meat, yay!). In addition, my marines killed three wolves ashore. Raiding parties are busy bringing loot to the ship right now.

[hauteecolerider]

You warmed up that rifle a bit today! Good work!

I have yet to try hunting from the Riken. Something on my TLD Bucket List for sure . . .

[Jolan]

10 hours ago, Ruruwawa said:

I don't really want to turn this into a wolf hunting thread but in this situation there are three things that help me a lot with the current wolf AI.  First is the wolf is truly charging, (running at full speed) light a flare and brandish it when the wolf is close.  It's fairly successful at scaring him away.  I often preemptively light a flare if I'm in a situation where a wolf might notice me.  Also, crouch when he's fleeing to prevent him from targeting you again. 

Better still, if you have accelerant, speed-light a fire.  Since the AI changes I've never had a wolf NOT flee from a fire.  I've cooked meals, boiled water, etc for hours at a fire right on the patrol path of two wolves, who kept fleeing when they got close.  I crouch while at the fire, too.

If the wolf is just growling and homing in on you at a walk, Drop Decoy is very good now.  It's not the magic spell of Paralyze that drop torch used to be, but it slows him enough to kill with an arrow.

I had a problem with yo yo wolves and fire as well.  If they get truly out of sight they sometimes stop, but otherwise I just end up having to shoot them.  Part of the reason why I build my fires up against houses, unclimbable rocks etc.  Well that and the fact that the wolves seem to like running in from the right.  Play it right and the goofy things will line themselves up for a perfect head shot with the bow.

 

[Jolan]

2 hours ago, Drifter Man said:

Day 753

For the purpose of a general attack on Hibernia Processing, I'm assuming temporary command of the Riken. She's somewhat rusty and rolls a bit in a seaway, but she will do fine! After taking a broadside from the Riken, this bear will sail no more (almost 40 kg of meat, yay!). In addition, my marines killed three wolves ashore. Raiding parties are busy bringing loot to the ship right now.

 better than SS Front Porch

 

 

[Ruruwawa]

4 hours ago, Drifter Man said:

Awesome pic!  And a great day in DP to make up for the lousy one that preceded it. 

[Ruruwawa]

18 hours ago, Drifter Man said:

This is interesting. I would expect similar mechanic to be applied to rabbits, but my rabbit areas showed no signs of depletion even after 50 days of intensive use. Did you do your fishing in one go, without reloading the game? There was a bug in TWM that prevented sticks from respawning unless the game was reloaded. What if something similar affects fish?

Interesting indeed.  My rabbits *do* move spawn locations occasionally.  Not sure about the Ravine but it has happened to me in the large zones.  Maybe it's linked to the moving wolf spawns?

I restarted the game several times during my testing (breaks for real life stuff).  I haven't moved from TWM yet, so I can try another day or two of fishing in TWM and see how the catch rate goes.  My last line was no-catch for 70% of the hours fished.

UPDATE:  Tried a bit more fishing in TWM.  This time my line broke after 9 hours, with a total catch rate of only 2 fish - it just keeps getting worse.  I'm going to move to CH now and see if I can duplicate the "fished out" condition there.

[thinair]

On 6/12/2016 at 11:11 AM, Drifter Man said:

How often do you fight with wolves? How do you deal with the constant need for more pelts? Or do you live in places where it is reasonably easy to avoid them? I've heard about people undressing before a fight but 1) it is clearly an exploit 2) in most cases I don't even have enough time for an expletive, much less for a strip show. Fights mostly happen when I don't see the wolf coming.

In my current run of 105 days on stalker, i had to fight wolves max 5 times... I guess i'm decent at avoiding them... mostly by crounching or if spotted, dropping decoy. I carry 4-6 small decoy bits, and binded E button on keyboard to drop it. I never undress for fights, because usually its no time at all... and even if i could, i just drop decoy. Dealing with pelts is easy... i only fired once in 105 days, and it was arrow, because i needed last wolf pelt for the wolf jacket. I just use a tactic of hoarding deer to wolf and then attracting wolf attention and escape to huts or houses. I do not hunt wolves, since in stalker its meat is almost worthless, and i barely need its pelts for repairing, because i mostly use 1. down ski jacket 2. expedition parka. I made the wolf jacket maybe at day 50 or even less, and its still in 98 or 97% condition. maybe i repaired it once, after a fight, but not sure. it degrades really slow.

[Drifter Man]

Thanks @Ruruwawa, @Jolan, @thinair for the wolf tips. Starting a campfire seems a bit odd to me, but mainly I should add the decoy to my repertoire. Usually I don't walk around with a piece of raw meat. Maybe this should change.

[Drifter Man]

4 hours ago, thinair said:

I do not hunt wolves, since in stalker its meat is almost worthless, and i barely need its pelts for repairing, because i mostly use 1. down ski jacket 2. expedition parka.

What temperature bonus does your clothing have? I'm uncomfortable with anything less than 18°C because I tend to get numb/freezing in the morning before the temperatures rise high enough.

[Drifter Man]

15 hours ago, Ruruwawa said:

Awesome pic!  And a great day in DP to make up for the lousy one that preceded it. 

Actually, that day also included another wolf fight and getting lost in a blizzard, but otherwise it was great 

[Drifter Man]

Day 759

The plan worked perfectly, almost as if I had calculated it (I hadn't). After I had killed the guardians of the Hibernia Plant on Days 745 and 746, only one wolf appeared on Day 754 and another on Day 757. I killed them promptly and otherwise the plant was quiet and safe. In the end, in order to search and harvest everything in the compound (and around in this part of the map) I needed 13 days and all the meat I had, the huge bear included. Today I closed the door behind me, knowing there is nothing of value left at Hibernia.

The spoils now stored in the Riken include: 201 pieces of scrap metal, 57 pieces of cloth, four birch saplings (for a total of five found in the map), two spare hacksaws (one will stay, one will go to CH), a hammer for the forge, five wolf pelts, one bear hide, one deer hide, guts, kerosene, matches, ammunition etc. Interestingly, I found no rifle, knife or hatchet on the map - while no knife and hatchet are normal in DP, no rifle surprises me. Have I missed anything?

Again, I found no useful clothes, just poor quality pieces that are good only to be harvested for cloth. The surviving bedroll found in the mine pleased me, though.

Now I'm going to make one improvised knife and one hatchet for testing purposes. Then I will decide what will go with me to the Dam and what will stay. I probably won't be taking that much with me - scrap metal and cloth will remain in the Riken, that's for sure.

[Drifter Man]

5 hours ago, Ruruwawa said:

Interesting indeed.  My rabbits *do* move spawn locations occasionally.  Not sure about the Ravine but it has happened to me in the large zones.  Maybe it's linked to the moving wolf spawns?

I restarted the game several times during my testing (breaks for real life stuff).  I haven't moved from TWM yet, so I can try another day or two of fishing in TWM and see how the catch rate goes.  My last line was no-catch for 70% of the hours fished.

UPDATE:  Tried a bit more fishing in TWM.  This time my line broke after 9 hours, with a total catch rate of only 2 fish - it just keeps getting worse.  I'm going to move to CH now and see if I can duplicate the "fished out" condition there.

I noticed that too - some places in large maps normally have rabbits and then they are gone for a few days. I don't know if it affects snares placed there, I suppose it does. In the Ravine the rabbits are always present in all three areas. "Fishing out" could be a new feature to make people diversify their diet, or to force them to move around. I suppose it will hit me in a few updates, too.

[JAFO]

4 hours ago, Drifter Man said:

Now I'm going to make one improvised knife and one hatchet for testing purposes.

Any particular reason for not making a few spare arrowheads while you're there?

[thinair]

10 hours ago, Drifter Man said:

What temperature bonus does your clothing have? I'm uncomfortable with anything less than 18°C because I tend to get numb/freezing in the morning before the temperatures rise high enough.

with ski jacket (98-99% at a moment), 15 and 9, and i do not keep all clothes at 100% or rule like all must be over 80%. i only fix them when possible MAXIMUM repair % is available/possible... for example togue is at 58% at a moment, some other clothing at 72% and up. like rabbit mittens, deer boots, deer pants, wolf jacket i only repair once it reaches 70%.

 with 54% parka its like 16 and 10 or so, and with wolf jacket 20 and 12 or so. in all maps except maybe for pv, 15 and 9 is enough to start a day from 10-12 of daylight left. i dont mind if i start and it feels -5 or so... within hour or two, it starts get warmer and character warms up. As it starts feeling +2 or better i take off clothes and always keep my character at feels like -1 to +2 degrees or so, that way i also keep some clothing from degradation of the wind and what not.

edit: just started a day at 11 hours of daylight left, with 15 and 9 bonus, in CH, and felt like -2c... which is nothing. My opinion, and personal play of style, all the fur clothing plus some other stuff... is over kill. 15-16 is enough to start a day early. and something like 13, to start day at 9-10 hours of daylight left. I barely go out if the wind is 10 or stronger... unless its a must.

[Ruruwawa]

16 hours ago, Drifter Man said:

Interestingly, I found no rifle, knife or hatchet on the map - while no knife and hatchet are normal in DP, no rifle surprises me. Have I missed anything?

There are always two rifles in DP, and one is in Hibernia (it's exceptionally well hidden).  The other is guarded by Scruffy.

16 hours ago, Drifter Man said:

Starting a campfire seems a bit odd to me, but mainly I should add the decoy to my repertoire. Usually I don't walk around with a piece of raw meat. Maybe this should change.

Good plan.  You say your problem is reacting fast enough, and the decoy does slow the wolf down to a slow walk.  Pretty reliable too!

Minor update on fishing.  I moved to CH and fished a few hours -- my line lasted only 21 hours.   My first 46 hour line is starting to look like an outlier.  

• TWM 1 - 46 hours - 455 kcal/hr
• TWM 2 - 15 hours - 489 kcal/hr
• TWM 3 - 16 hours - 215 kcal/hr
• TWM 4 - 15 hours - 68 kcal/hr
• CH1     - 21 hours - 274 kcal/hr

CH catch rate is similar to my first two TWM line, but the calories caught is lower due to the mix of fish species.  Rainbow Trout in CH average ~270 calories each; Whitefish in TWM average ~400 calories each.  The calorie range for the big fish --Coho Salmon vs Smallmouth Bass-- is pretty similar.

[Drifter Man]

18 hours ago, JAFO said:

Any particular reason for not making a few spare arrowheads while you're there?

I have six of them now and don't lose them often. But it will take a few coals to get the forge to working temperature, so I may as well craft a few things I don't need with the extra burning time I will have.

[Drifter Man]

14 hours ago, thinair said:

with ski jacket (98-99% at a moment), 15 and 9, and i do not keep all clothes at 100% or rule like all must be over 80%. i only fix them when possible MAXIMUM repair % is available/possible... for example togue is at 58% at a moment, some other clothing at 72% and up. like rabbit mittens, deer boots, deer pants, wolf jacket i only repair once it reaches 70%.

 with 54% parka its like 16 and 10 or so, and with wolf jacket 20 and 12 or so. in all maps except maybe for pv, 15 and 9 is enough to start a day from 10-12 of daylight left. i dont mind if i start and it feels -5 or so... within hour or two, it starts get warmer and character warms up. As it starts feeling +2 or better i take off clothes and always keep my character at feels like -1 to +2 degrees or so, that way i also keep some clothing from degradation of the wind and what not.

edit: just started a day at 11 hours of daylight left, with 15 and 9 bonus, in CH, and felt like -2c... which is nothing. My opinion, and personal play of style, all the fur clothing plus some other stuff... is over kill. 15-16 is enough to start a day early. and something like 13, to start day at 9-10 hours of daylight left. I barely go out if the wind is 10 or stronger... unless its a must.

I start the day at dawn and regularly feel -5°C even with my 18-20°C bonus, and up to -10°C in strong wind. -5°C is OK, but at -10°C I usually just get some work done and have to go to a cave to rest and warm up in an hour or two. So you sacrifice some daytime outside for being able to wear lighter clothes. Maybe this could work for me, too. By reducing my bonus by 4°C I could save a ton of deer hides.

[Drifter Man]

6 hours ago, Ruruwawa said:

There are always two rifles in DP, and one is in Hibernia (it's exceptionally well hidden).  The other is guarded by Scruffy.

Is Scruffy the bear?  I went to the cave but left when I saw the bones and realized it was a bear hideout. I didn't know when it respawns and didn't want to add more bones to the lot. And I must have missed the one at Hibernia. Doesn't matter, I don't need more rifles.

6 hours ago, Ruruwawa said:

• TWM 1 - 46 hours - 455 kcal/hr
• TWM 2 - 15 hours - 489 kcal/hr
• TWM 3 - 16 hours - 215 kcal/hr
• TWM 4 - 15 hours - 68 kcal/hr
• CH1     - 21 hours - 274 kcal/hr

It would be great if you could post updates on this. But frankly, 274 Cal per hour is barely enough for survival. Is this Pilgrim or Stalker?

[Ruruwawa]

11 minutes ago, Drifter Man said:

Is Scruffy the bear?  I went to the cave but left when I saw the bones and realized it was a bear hideout. I didn't know when it respawns and didn't want to add more bones to the lot. And I must have missed the one at Hibernia. Doesn't matter, I don't need more rifles.

Right locale, wrong species.  Scruffy is a close relative of Fluffy.     But since you're all set for rifles no need to bother with him.

11 minutes ago, Drifter Man said:

would be great if you could post updates on this. But frankly, 274 Cal per hour is barely enough for survival. Is this Pilgrim or Stalker?

I agree the calories /hour look bad in CH.  Tiny dataset so far, so I'll keep testing some more.  

I'm testing on Pilgrim because it's easier.   I plan to do a little sanity checking on Voy and Stalker eventually but I don't expect big differences.  Kcal/kg is consistent for other animals across the game modes, wouldn't that be true for fish too?

[Drifter Man]

Funny, I didn't see a particularly remarkable wolf - where does Scruffy stay?

There might be a difference in the frequency of fish caught depending on the difficulty. @testman and @Scyzara evaluated fishing in January - it must have been v.301 or something. Pilgrims caught more salmons than Stalkers did. During the test they also found that you get more calories in 2-hour sessions than 1-hour ones (650 Cal per hour vs 400), although 2-hour sessions lead to more broken lines. It is hard for me to understand, though, why anyone would implement such a complicated system.

The link is here, but it's in German:

 

[Drifter Man]

32 minutes ago, Ruruwawa said:

Right locale, wrong species.

OK, I got it. The cave does not belong to the bear.

[Ruruwawa]

4 minutes ago, Drifter Man said:

OK, I got it. The cave does not belong to the bear.

Actually it might.  There are two caves in that same area -- I guess I'm not sure which one you mean.  Scruffy's cave has a loading screen.

 

[Drifter Man]

I was in both - the one with loading screen had bones, the other was empty. I'm glad I didn't carry on. A fight with and überwolf was the last thing I would need. Fear and caution are my friends in TLD.