Meat Decay

[SteveP]

I've been trying to gather data to understand the meat decay computation in the game. Here is an interesting video where the bear meat starts to decay almost immediately because it was a multi-shot kill (3 bullets)

[bBvideo 560,340:1b79e7hm]

[/bBvideo]

My commentary in the comments:

@11:57 your survival time is 116 days 23 hrs 10 min just after you kill the bear, it is 1% frozen. The first harvest takes 2 Hrs 30 min and the meat was 84%

@12:37 the meat is 44% frozen

The next harvest was 2kg for 30 min and the meat was 83%

The decay on the carcass has slowed!! The harvesting time seems to have increased slightly too. There is only 1% loss in 2 hours which is only 12% in 24 hrs. If harvest not started, the meat decays rapidly. I think it slows because you are still in harvest mode. It will be very educational to see what the meat condition is if/when you return! Please check status frequently when recording; also it's important to drink water and eat or monitor coldness. I'm not sure why the bear meat started condition at 84% when it only died minutes before. It did have two previous shots into it however we don't know how much time elapsed or the effect of the slow death upon the bear.

Remember, always use fire to halt the bear for your shot! Flare or torch or fire if you have time. Get his attention, then build your fire. Let him come close until he stops. One shot and wait 10 minutes boiling water. He will die or begin to wander off. Keep an eye on him for a bit.

@ 16:06 your survival time is 117 days 3 hrs and 36 min.

When you start to cook, the lowest condition meat has already dropped to 72%

It seems better to harvest all at once with adequate calories, water and heat and weather permitting, cook it immediately. 10% loss over night is crazy! It's hard to get a handle on how they compute the decay rates. Supposedly decay of raw meat is 4%/day but that is not the case here! I wonder if the room temperature affects the decay rate?

@16:45 your survival time is 117-20-40 I think this is when you start to cook meat. and you meat condition ranges from 72 to 75%. that is close to 10% in about 19 hours.

I entered a bug report in XBOX to see if Tech Support can respond about these rapid decay rates for the bear and other animals. Documentation on the wikis does not seem to agree with the decay rates we observe here with the latest release.

[LinieBurrito456]

I`m on X-Box and the last view bears I shot was in their caves to start harvesting as fast as possible.

I always harvest 2 hours, put the raw meat at the cave floor and then start the second harvest.

Fire is still burning, because I`m waiting for the bear to come "home" behind it.

The first meat I harvested have a condition near to 50% while cooking it, so I can get cooked meet with 100% condition. (Realistic are 98%-99% when ready with cooking :-) )

It`s the only way I found to get bear meat now in the game,

because when I shot it outside and it`s to cold, so I have to pause or go inside for a while then the meat is lost or the game told me:"There`s nothing to harvest!"

[druffzilla]

It has nothing to do with how many shots you take.

Fresh meat decays on the highest rate when the carcass is unfrozen, he is harvesting it with a hatchet which is slower on soft meat, when the meat starts freezing (50%+ frozen) it becomes faster to harvest with a hatchet and the decay rate slightly slows down. It decayed that much because he spend a lot of time harvesting.

Fresh meat decays still pretty fast on your body or on the ground, I think 0,5% per hour, if he would have dropped it in a container before he went to sleep he would have slowed the degradation.

On cooked meat the decay rate is twice as fast if you carry it around or leave it in a container, 2% and 4% per day. I don't know if the rate applies for fresh meat too.

Rule of thumb is to always cook your meat ASAP!

[Thelek]

i usually end up getting mauled by bears when i shoot them, as a result, the carcass is frozen when i finally find it. it is usually at about 80% when i start harvesting. most important thing i have learned is DO NOT SET YOUR CAMPFIRE CLOSE ENOUGH TO THE CARCASS THAT IT STARTS TO THAW. if the bear thaws before you finnish harvesting it, you could lose up to about 80% of it. next thing i have learned isto always harvest the skin and guts with a knife, but use a hacksaw to harvest the meat. and lastly, always cook the meat as soon as you harvest it. i harvest meat for 2 hours then spend 2 hours cooking it. rinse and repeat i seldom have meat at less than 75%.

[elloco999]

Rule of thumb is to always cook your meat ASAP!

Not if you want the meat to last as long as possible. Cooking increases the condition of the meat. If you cook meat that has a condition of 50% it will be 100% after cooking.

You can store the raw meat for several days in a container (if it is at a good condition when you harvest it), cook it and still have 100% cooked meat. If you plan on eating the meat in the next week or so you don't have to wait but if you have a good supply and you won't need to eat this load soon, wait with cooking until the meat almost reaches 50% and you will be able to keep it a few days longer.

[druffzilla]

Rule of thumb is to always cook your meat ASAP!

Not if you want the meat to last as long as possible. Cooking increases the condition of the meat. If you cook meat that has a condition of 50% it will be 100% after cooking.

You can store the raw meat for several days in a container (if it is at a good condition when you harvest it), cook it and still have 100% cooked meat. If you plan on eating the meat in the next week or so you don't have to wait but if you have a good supply and you won't need to eat this load soon, wait with cooking until the meat almost reaches 50% and you will be able to keep it a few days longer.

That is true, but I thought meat which was in bad condition before cooking is more likely to contract food poisoning after its cooked... Something has been changed in v.280 though, meat in general seems to last much longer now so I am not so sure anymore. Now meat easily lasts to 40% without getting bad, before I often got food poisoning when I ate meat at around 70%.

[LinieBurrito456]

Rule of thumb is to always cook your meat ASAP!

Not if you want the meat to last as long as possible. Cooking increases the condition of the meat. If you cook meat that has a condition of 50% it will be 100% after cooking.

You can store the raw meat for several days in a container (if it is at a good condition when you harvest it), cook it and still have 100% cooked meat. If you plan on eating the meat in the next week or so you don't have to wait but if you have a good supply and you won't need to eat this load soon, wait with cooking until the meat almost reaches 50% and you will be able to keep it a few days longer.

That is true, but I thought meat which was in bad condition before cooking is more likely to contract food poisoning after its cooked... Something has been changed in v.280 though, meat in general seems to last much longer now so I am not so sure anymore. Now meat easily lasts to 40% without getting bad, before I often got food poisoning when I ate meat at around 70%.

Yes I noticed that too, often got food-poisening, if I wait too long to cook the meat.

And as I wrote it in the last post, I only got bear-meat near to 50% contition, when I harvesting it after the bears death. :-( (harvesting and cooking takes too much time)

[SteveP]

We really should have a method to cook or dry a large quantity of fresh meat at once. It's silly that it takes hours merely to process a bear yet we cannot avail by freezing fresh meat for preservation.

[Amazombie]

i agree. one thing i've asked for is a way to build a smoke shack , so that we can smoke and preserve the meat

[General_Zod]

Does meat decay slower in a Freezer/Refrigerator/Locker?

[bethany]

Does meat decay slower in a Freezer/Refrigerator/Locker?

Meat will decay slower in a container, but decay rate does not vary across the different container types.

[Amazombie]

from what i've heard yes, but i'm too lazy to test it

[n0xiety]

They really should add the ability to turn meat into jerky. Adding salt and smoking the meat for 6 hours at 80C degrees in an oven should suffice to turn meat into jerky. Sure it won't taste good without the flavours but it would be edible. We would save on weight too since smoking gets rid of the exess water in the meat which takes about 3/4 of its weight. So 1kg of meat would turn into 0.25kg of jerky which doesn't really loose any calorie in the process and can be edible for 3 months.

[SteveP]

I agree totally that the meat decay is unrealistic and occurs too quickly. This game is turning less into a simulation and more into an arcade adventure, which is not what I desire. I would also like to be able to cook or smoke bulk meat without having to spend hours on a fire or stove. A smoker would solve that problem. Simple as a fire pit, a tripod and some evergreen branches to trap the smoke. A tarp also works.

[Wasteland Watcher]

Hello all.

I've been reading all this because I'm new to TLD and want to live "forever" if possible. 3rd game now, 20 days in, have 10L water, nearly starving with no food reserves or first aid supplies.

I've got 10 matches, magnif. glass, hunting knife, ax, prybar, a bow and one arrow which I've missed with 3 times shooting at deer, luckily recovered the arrow - now 33%, and a fishing line and hook.

I used up all my meds after getting bitten by 3 wolves with I fought with melee weapons.

Those wolves were immediately harvested (all meat, fur, guts), cooked all meat immediately after harvesting, & ate meat every day until full.

I guess I should have saved the meat but no refrigerator and was worried if the animal carcass is left out overnight and I only harvest what meat I need for the day, that the meat and guts would be eaten by predators and gone by the next day

Putting meat in a container to keep it "somewhat fresh" makes sense.

The air temp in the room reads 3 Celsius.

Ideally I'd like to be able to harvest all meat possible and "keep in it the fridge" for a week before cooking and eating, as a food reserve.

Is a file cabinet in Camp Office sufficient for use as a "fridge?"

Does this also apply to fish?

And is it wiser to harvest all meat off the carcass at once and bring it 'home' or better to leave it frozen in the snow to prevent it from spoiling and get what you need for cooking on a daily basis?

[elloco999]

All containers slow degradation at the same rate. So it doesn't matter if you put meat (or fish, or anything else that degrades) in a fridge or in a filing cabinet.

Raw meat degrades a lot faster than cooked meat but you can still keep it in a container for several days if the condition is high enough. Cook it before it reaches 50% and you will have cooked meat at 100%.

[Wasteland Watcher]

All containers slow degradation at the same rate. So it doesn't matter if you put meat (or fish, or anything else that degrades) in a fridge or in a filing cabinet.

Raw meat degrades a lot faster than cooked meat but you can still keep it in a container for several days if the condition is high enough. Cook it before it reaches 50% and you will have cooked meat at 100%.

Thank you very much for the good advice.

In a pinch, would you keep raw meat until 40% and then cook it & finally eat it at 80%?

[elloco999]

If I have to I will keep meat until it reaches 1% and then cook it and eat it. I don't have problems with eating cooked meat even if it has dropped below 50%. I hardly ever get food poisoning from cooked meat even at 10%. And if I do, I just sleep it off if I can.

That said, at times food poisoning would be a problem (when food and or water supplies are running low or when you need to do something and don't want to wait a day or two) I try to stay away from food with a low condition.

But if at all possible I try to cook all my raw food before it hits the 50% mark. Raw food degrades so much faster than cooked food that it's better to cook it at 60% than at 48% because than it will keep longer.

[Wasteland Watcher]

If I have to I will keep meat until it reaches 1% and then cook it and eat it. I don't have problems with eating cooked meat even if it has dropped below 50%. I hardly ever get food poisoning from cooked meat even at 10%. And if I do, I just sleep it off if I can.

That said, at times food poisoning would be a problem (when food and or water supplies are running low or when you need to do something and don't want to wait a day or two) I try to stay away from food with a low condition.

But if at all possible I try to cook all my raw food before it hits the 50% mark. Raw food degrades so much faster than cooked food that it's better to cook it at 60% than at 48% because than it will keep longer.

I will definitely be following this advice. Thank you!

I try to cook meat on sunny days (and I'm down to two matches).

How many days would allow yourself to starve before using a match to cook because of too many overcast days?

[elloco999]

If I have raw food and no "safe" food left to eat, I would probably try to get some more raw food by hunting/ trapping/ fishing for a day and then cook everything I have even if it were my last match. But then, matches are not hard to find and I don't think I have run out of matches in the last days hours of gameplay (over multiple runs ).

Nor have I ever truly run out of food in that time. But if you've played the game for a while and died a few times, you'll learn how to manage your supplies (and where to get new supplies of the kind you need).

There are some food types that don't degrade. Cattail stalks, salty crackers and soda's to name a few. These I always collect at my bases and I safe these in case I ever run out of other food. This gives me a buffer of 1000's of cals in case I ever do get in serious trouble.

[ThresholdSeven]

Meat decays at the same rate in any indoor container whether it be a dresser, plastic container or refrigerator. I'm pretty sure that outdoor containers such as backpacks cause faster decay than in an indoor container, but it's better than leaving it on the ground outside.

I've also noticed that getting food poisoning is much less frequent than it used to be after the Desolation Point update.

In regards to the bear losing condition. I'm pretty sure that the wind will degrade the unharvested meat of a corpse faster than calm weather (temperature doesn't matter) similar to how wind will wreck bunny traps faster. I'm not certain of this, but it seems that way and would be worth looking into further. I'll attempt to test it on my next excursion into the frozen wasteland.

[KD7BCH]

And is it wiser to harvest all meat off the carcass at once and bring it 'home' or better to leave it frozen in the snow to prevent it from spoiling and get what you need for cooking on a daily basis?

Welcome to TLD. It is sometimes better to make two trips depending on distance and where you are. In relative safe zones you can make a trip or two back and carry the meat out in two steps. If you have the knife the meat will harvest fastest when not-frozen. If you only have the hatchet it will harvest the same frozen or not. Neither tool you will have to do it by hand and it is best to start immediately as it will likely freeze before you get it all.

If you have tools though you can also leave the carcass, and come back with firewood, that you gather while it is freezing. Even leave it for a day or two and come back. Best not to leave it too long especially if it is a bear as you won't get it all in time. However a wolf or deer can be harvested on the 2nd day. In any event, sometimes it is better to come back after securing fuel or making water should you need to. It can also be beneficial to take the hide and guts first since they have longer cure times than meat does cook times.

With the way the game is with raw meat you are really rolling the dice ever eating uncooked meat of any kind and I strongly recommend against it. Your chances of getting sick from cooked meat are at least 10X less than with raw food and all you need to make it safe is a fire and some time. Unless you are already at or below 15% and starving it is exceedingly risky and that risk carries with it consequences way beyond the reward of stopping hunger than getting what you need together for making a fire.

If you do get food poisoning, then there is no additional consequence to eating raw meat as you will only get food poisoning again and so what if you are already suffering the effects so there is the only exception where I'd eat raw meat.

[SteveP]

I'm pretty sure that outdoor containers such as backpacks cause faster decay than in an indoor container, but it's better than leaving it on the ground outside.

In regards to the bear losing condition. I'm pretty sure that the wind will degrade the unharvested meat of a corpse faster than calm weather (temperature doesn't matter) similar to how wind will wreck bunny traps faster. I'm not certain of this, but it seems that way and would be worth looking into further. I'll attempt to test it on my next excursion into the frozen wasteland.

Is that speculation or have you tested this? you are speculating about what is "reasonable" and that wind would cause meat to spoil. In real life, it's the opposite; you must open the carcass and remove the viscera to let it cool off or it will develop mold. Wind can accelerate the freezing process but hunters generally pack the game out before it freezes. Hunting is one long continuous process although sometimes you must return the next day to retrieve the meat if it is simply too arduous to pack all of it out before nightfall.

It has been discussed before if rabbit snares wear out in the wind; it makes some sense based on observations of the game however in real life, wind won't affect the integrity of a snare much. If anything, snow can disguise it a bit more especially traps. I haven't done much game play or snaring recently but I think they adjusted the wearing out computation. It was felt to be too frequent.

Thank you for your comments; you can see the results of some experiments I performed on meat decay in the .282 release on my youtube channel under Stephen Pushak. At some point, if I get back into it, I'll repeat the experiments on the new release. Technical support and development are looking into it and I hope they can give us some insights into how it is intended to work with meat decay.

Here is a video that shows the results of the experiment with wolf meat.

[bBvideo 560,340:1xuxnmta]

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[ThresholdSeven]

I'm pretty sure that outdoor containers such as backpacks cause faster decay than in an indoor container, but it's better than leaving it on the ground outside.

In regards to the bear losing condition. I'm pretty sure that the wind will degrade the unharvested meat of a corpse faster than calm weather (temperature doesn't matter) similar to how wind will wreck bunny traps faster. I'm not certain of this, but it seems that way and would be worth looking into further. I'll attempt to test it on my next excursion into the frozen wasteland.

Is that speculation or have you tested this? you are speculating about what is "reasonable" and that wind would cause meat to spoil. In real life, it's the opposite; you must open the carcass and remove the viscera to let it cool off or it will develop mold. Wind can accelerate the freezing process but hunters generally pack the game out before it freezes. Hunting is one long continuous process although sometimes you must return the next day to retrieve the meat if it is simply too arduous to pack all of it out before nightfall.

It has been discussed before if rabbit snares wear out in the wind; it makes some sense based on observations of the game however in real life, wind won't affect the integrity of a snare much. If anything, snow can disguise it a bit more especially traps. I haven't done much game play or snaring recently but I think they adjusted the wearing out computation. It was felt to be too frequent.

Thank you for your comments; you can see the results of some experiments I performed on meat decay in the .282 release on my youtube channel under Stephen Pushak. At some point, if I get back into it, I'll repeat the experiments on the new release. Technical support and development are looking into it and I hope they can give us some insights into how it is intended to work with meat decay.

Here is a video that shows the results of the experiment with wolf meat.

[bBvideo 560,340:1d6yzbp6]

[/bBvideo]

I made it clear that it was speculation and that I have yet to test it since I said "I'm pretty sure, I'm not certain, and I'll attempt to test it." It is my best guess based on personal observation.