How about a simple latch crossbow?

[mjv96]

Just a thought bubble, but would love to see us be able to make a very basic latch crossbow (think medieval style). Arrows, or in this case, quarrels / bolts would be made in the same manner as arrows with the same materials. Just tossing the idea out there...

[Jebcool]

Hmmmm. But how would the player know how to make this? I wouldn't. Maybe perhaps implement blueprints or books where the player can read and learn things. Such as more complex arrows or knives etc etc

[megamillionare]

how about a makeshift one where you will need fir firewood for the base of of it and well whatever you need to make a bow, its kinda like putting a bow on a peice of wood sideways and also maybe sharpened sticks could be added to the game less damage but can cause like medium bleeding or minor bleeding.

[EternityTide]

Hmmmm. But how would the player know how to make this? I wouldn't. Maybe perhaps implement blueprints or books where the player can read and learn things. Such as more complex arrows or knives etc etc

with a basic understanding of physics and a fair hand at mechanical engineering, it's a very easy device to build. I could give you a workable design within a few hours, and then have it built within a day or two, provided I had the materials and tools required.

[piddy3825]

how about a makeshift one where you will need fir firewood for the base of of it and well whatever you need to make a bow, its kinda like putting a bow on a peice of wood sideways and also maybe sharpened sticks could be added to the game less damage but can cause like medium bleeding or minor bleeding.

how about you mount a survival bow on top of a rifle. when you are out of bullets, the rifle is nothing more than dead weight. with the use of scrap metals, cured gut and fir firewood you could attach the survival bow atop the rifle in a cross bow style setting. modify the bolt action to act as the trigger mechanism. that would allow the character to shoot the bow from a crouching position. craft time could take up to 20 hours and would require the use of quality tools, the hacksaw and maybe even the heavy hammer, so you would also need to find the red tool kit. but once you do it, you can never restore the rifle if you happen to find extra bullets.

[DarkUncleBoh]

I had an idea for a book to teach you how to make a crossbow, but with a twist - not just for the crossbow, but for the book reading as something to fill some "down time".

Example: The book itself takes maybe 72 hours to read in total, but you do it in chunks (like crafting larger items). Once you have read the entire book, you learn how to craft the individual parts (say "stock", "bow", "firing mechanism", and "bolts" - as well as how to assemble the three main parts into the final crossbow). However, each of these parts (and the assembly) take a substantial amount of time to do...

...so for the "twist", after you have read the book in full, that also unlocks options when (re)reading the book of "review how to craft a crossbow stock" - which only takes 2 hours to do, and when you do so it gives you a buff for the next 24 hours - that buff doubles any craft time that you put into building a stock. There would of course be "review" options for each section of the book - so that keeping the book around and referring back to it as you build, help keep you moving along with the crafting.

It is an idea in its infancy - needs a lot of fine tuning I'm sure, but was a though I had for a way to implement books for how to craft more complicated things.

[mjv96]

Hmmmm. But how would the player know how to make this? I wouldn't. Maybe perhaps implement blueprints or books where the player can read and learn things. Such as more complex arrows or knives etc etc

I think it's actually easier to make a simple latch crossbow than it is to make a long bow. Long bows require extensive knowledge of how to cure and bend wood. Simple crossbows were easier to make and far easier to train to use. Downside is far shorter range than a traditional long bow.

I've no problems about the blueprints / books and really, I think those need to be implemented into the game as I can't figure out just how this guy/gal would know all this. So +1 to the books / blueprints.

[mjv96]

how about you mount a survival bow on top of a rifle.

I've seen things like that but they are a real jury-rigged mess, unless designed right from the start. The biggest problem would be making a channel for the bolt to slide into and then making the whole bow fastened securely enough to the frame of the rifle so it doesn't rip off when fired.

Still, when in a bad situation, it may just work. :lol:

[Boston123]

Hmmmm. But how would the player know how to make this? I wouldn't. Maybe perhaps implement blueprints or books where the player can read and learn things. Such as more complex arrows or knives etc etc

I think it's actually easier to make a simple latch crossbow than it is to make a long bow. Long bows require extensive knowledge of how to cure and bend wood. Simple crossbows were easier to make and far easier to train to use. Downside is far shorter range than a traditional long bow.

I've no problems about the blueprints / books and really, I think those need to be implemented into the game as I can't figure out just how this guy/gal would know all this. So +1 to the books / blueprints.

No, they aren't. actually.

You don't need to bend any wood to make a self-bow, which is the "type" of bow a longbow is. The in-game "survival bow" is not a longbow, just a self-bow. Longbows are ..... well, longer, and have different limb dimensions than a "standard" self-bow.

I would choose to build a bow 100% of the time over trying to build a crossbow. The only advantages crossbows have over "regular" bows is ease of use and ease of training, which could easily be tied into "ease of use". Self-bows are easier to make, require less of a manufacturing base, and are easier to repair. Plus, a wooden crossbow would be rather crap-tastic. The crossbow of European fame had a steel limbs.

And, you need a MUCH stronger crossbow "bow" to equal a self-bow, due to the lesser "power stroke" of the shorter bow on the crossbow (~10 inches for a crossbow vs 24+ for a self-bow). The "powerstroke" is the amount of energy that is transferred from the limbs to the projectile, and is dependent on the length of the limbs and the length of the draw. A 145lb steel-limbed crossbow is "equal" (aka confers the roughly same amount of energy and speed to the arrow) to a 45lb wooden bow, due to this, and this is also why English Longbowmen could use 120lb, 6 foot longbows to punch into (not through, and only at close range. Arrows don't weigh that much) metal armor.

[mjv96]

Good point though I could have sworn they described it as a longbow somewhere in the past. One reason I'd like to have a crossbow is that I could be sitting down and shoot whereas with the bow, that's not possible.

Oh, and the reason I opted for a simple latch crossbow is ease of construction and another item for a player to craft (if they so choose). Crafting materials would only require adding 1 fir and 1 scrap metal in addition to the materials needed for a regular self-bow.

[ernestww]

You find an old Popular Mechanics magazine...

http://www.vintageprojects.com/archery/ ... spring.pdf

I have made a medieval style crossbow in RL. It fires a 600 gn bolt at about 200 fps. The prod or bow is made from leaf-spring steel with a 250 lbs draw weight. All that is needed is an old car leaf-spring, a file and a lot of time. The rest is basic woodwork.

The most difficult thing to improvise might be the string. It needs to be extremely strong. Perhaps tendon or rawhide.

Arguably easier to make than a long bow of similar power.

[mjv96]

Man, I love Popular Mechanics. Love that the pdf file is dated to June 1944 too. Agreed that it would be easier just to stick with the self-bow, but I like having options and things to make. Plus, add in that with the crossbow I can shoot from a sitting position and I think it's a winning idea.

[ernestww]

Yes the x-bow shoots more like a rifle, one of its historical advantages over the long bow.

Its interesting to look at the history of the x-bow and how it compared to the long bow. Its generally conceded that the long bow was more effective in warfare due to its relative low cost and rapid rate of fire. The down side to the long bow was that it needed years of training and skill. The crossbow could be deadly day one, with little training required. This allowed the nobles to disarm the peasants after the battle - no practice time necessary (nothing worse than an armed peasant). The trade off was they were expensive to make and had a slow rate of fire - maybe 2 or 3 shots a minute for a lighter x-bow less for heavy arbalists with cranklins etc. The English longbowman could volley dozens of arrows in that time.

A distinct advantage of the x-bow, over the longbow, in warfare or hunting is the held 'ready' shot. The longbowman is unlikely to be able to draw the arrow and wait for the enemy to peek over the parapets, no problem for the arbalist.

To make a crossbow craftable in TLD would require a couple new harvestable items:

-A car leaf spring (shaped with the hacksaw)

-A deer horn or 'pedical' for the string holder (nut) http://crossbow.wikia.com/wiki/Designin ... y-side.png

-Rawhide for the string

Other existing mats like scrap metal and hardwood.

Time at the work bench - I would suggest:

10 hours for the prod (1 leafspring) requires hacksaw

3 hours for the nut (1 deer antler and 1 scrap metal) requires basic tools

10 hours for the tiller (stock) (2 fir) requires basic tools

5 hours for the trigger (1 scrap metal) requires basic tools

3 hours for the rawhide string (1 Pelt)

The arrows or bolts should be a little different. You should have the ability to make blunts for the rabbits ( and future game birds like grouse ) these would not require metal heads - and then something with a broadhead similar to the current arrow for larger game.

[mjv96]

Good points about the historical differences. I've used an old (well old to me) recurve bow and found it terribly difficult to hold a shot for even 10 seconds so I know what you mean there.

Would love to see more options of stripping the various cars for parts added into the game. I do wonder though if a nut could be yanked from the car as well. Maybe add some randomness to striping the car, you won't always get a nut or you may get 2.

Definitely agree on the arrows / bolts being different though really the difference should merely prevent you from using them with a bow. Love the idea of blunts, would love to see them implemented into the game now just so I could practice hitting a target.

[Boston123]

Good points about the historical differences. I've used an old (well old to me) recurve bow and found it terribly difficult to hold a shot for even 10 seconds so I know what you mean there.

Would love to see more options of stripping the various cars for parts added into the game. I do wonder though if a nut could be yanked from the car as well. Maybe add some randomness to striping the car, you won't always get a nut or you may get 2.

Definitely agree on the arrows / bolts being different though really the difference should merely prevent you from using them with a bow. Love the idea of blunts, would love to see them implemented into the game now just so I could practice hitting a target.

What do you mean exactly by "hold a shot" with a recurve bow?

Are you attempting to "hold back" the arrow at full draw? Because that is not how you aim/use a bow (I don't want to assume anything here, of course)

When using a bow (long, self, recurve, doesn't really matter), you don't draw the arrow back, THEN aim. At that point, you are holding 50+ lbs of weight on three fingers and muscles in your back that you probably don't use that often. It is GOING to be difficult, in fact, it is almost supposed to.

You aim, then draw and release, all in one smooth motion.

I blame compound bows for that bad habit, basically. They are the only bow "type" where you can draw an arrow back and sit there all day with it resting on your anchor point.

[mjv96]

Well, we'll have to take a trip back to 1986 when I was in the 7th grade. I can't remember much about what I was doing, apart from trying to pull the string back on a recurve bow that was about as tall as I was then and not send the arrow into the ceiling of my middle school gym. I can only assume that I was trying to aim at the target. I do recall though that most of us did more damage to the wooden bleachers behind the targets that we did to the actual targets.

[ernestww]

On 10/25/2015 at 9:06 PM, Boston123 said:

What do you mean exactly by "hold a shot" with a recurve bow?

Are you attempting to "hold back" the arrow at full draw? Because that is not how you aim/use a bow (I don't want to assume anything here, of course)

When using a bow (long, self, recurve, doesn't really matter), you don't draw the arrow back, THEN aim. At that point, you are holding 50+ lbs of weight on three fingers and muscles in your back that you probably don't use that often. It is GOING to be difficult, in fact, it is almost supposed to.

You aim, then draw and release, all in one smooth motion.

I blame compound bows for that bad habit, basically. They are the only bow "type" where you can draw an arrow back and sit there all day with it resting on your anchor point.

What I meant by 'held shot' was that no held shot is possible for a long bow with 100lb+ draw, hence a limited advantage in some situations for a crossbow.  In the time it might take a longbowman to see a target draw-and-release, the crossbow bolt will have already passed through its target and be stuck in the wall behind.