Bow and arrow diversity, or upgrades

[Daxx Axx]

So, I'm tired of shooting deer twice to kill them, even with a heart shot. 1)I'm gonna throw it on the table, bleed out or heavier draw weight bow. Maybe even bow upgrades? I'd like to see some sights, because my bow seems to shoot to the left. Look at farcry 4's beginning hunting bow with the matchstick sight pins. We have matchsticks, I'd tape them on if I have to! Maybe even crafting a small list of bows, made out of the different wood you find when gathering. 2) And arrows only being made out of a certain sapling and metal? Bone or stone arrow heads would be great, instead of wasting metal used on repairs on guns and knives for cheap arrows. The arrows can decrease in power for bone and stone, compared to metal. 3) Being able to draw a bow while crouch sneaking would be a lot easier, especially since you scare everything away when ya stand up. Heck, maybe have doe in game that you can drain the urine out of to use as a lure wouldn't be too bad, but its kind of a long shot. 4) Back on the bleedout topic, how is a deer gonna run as fast, or far as it normally would, with an arrow sticking out of its shoulder? Even better, it bleeds out, and drops at 50-150 yards? Any whitetail I've ever shot in the vital area behind the shoulder blade, sure didn't run a marathon afterwards.

So, bleedout, better bow build and diversity, better arrow diversity and renewable source of materials. That's pretty much the sum of it. Hey, The Long Dark is one of my favourite games, and its not even finished yet! Hinterland, y'all are doing great! Everyone please reply to this post, I wanna see everyone's own ideas on the bow/arrow subject and hunting in general!

[Boston123]

In reality, arrows kill through blood loss, not through energy imparted through impact. A bow with a higher draw-weight doesn't kill an animal faster, it just makes the arrow fly straighter, faster, and more accurately. This lets you get an accurate shot from farther away.

Shoot a deer in the leg with a 60lb bow, and it will die slower (if it dies at all, that is), compared to shooting a deer in the lungs with a 15lbs bow.

AS for bows:

1) NO to more bow diversity. Bows are actually really difficult to make, and that fact that we can make one at all, "first time, every time", is a strain to belief. That it is as "good" as it is is even worse.

If I had my way, the current bow would be a "high tier" item, craftable with only a lot of effort and time. Want a bow for hunting small game? Make a "bundle bow".

2) I could get behind making arrows from different materials. Wood is heavier, with less flex, which is both good and bad. The thing with wood is: you have to straighten it, using heat and force. This can be a PITA.

I would like to use cattail-stalks as arrow shafts, at least for a more "field expedient" shaft, until I can get some wooden ones ready. They are already straight, and hollow, which would make attaching the points and nocking the shafts particularly simple. So, to compare the two:

Cattail shaft:

-already straight. Can make arrows with them right away, and finish in little time

-lightweight. This means they impart less energy to the target (less "damage") and get affected by wind and paradox more (less "accurate")

Wooden:

-need to be straightened. Take about an hour or more to straighten, dry, nock, fletch and add a point.

-stiff. Paradox affects the shaft less than a reed shaft, and it "springs" into proper flight faster

-heavy (relatively): Imparts more of the weight of the arrow into the arrowhead, leading to more impact energy, and more "damage".

3) NO. We are working with a self-bow carved from a single piece of wood. You don't get sights. You have to learn where the arrow will go through experience. I think the whole issue with this is the fact that you (in-game) are holding and drawing the bow the entirely wrong way. If you actually drew it so you looked DOWN the arrowshaft, over the point, we wouldn't need a sight. You've got the "rear sight" (down the shaft), the "front sight" (over the point), and the "sight picture" (shaft to the point to the target)

4) There is actually no difference in penetrative ability between stone/glass, bone, and metal arrowheads. Metal is just easier to work with/make, and easier to make the same weight (which is important).

[Daxx Axx]

(1) force doesn't kill anything, its a all blood loss and penetration, unless your throwing an explosive at it. (2) heavier draw weight=deeper penetration, which means a double lung shot at the minimum. And, the deer(actually it looks like an elk) drops in under 100yds.(3) bow sights are like gun iron sights, its a relative marker. Tape some match sticks to the side, its not that hard. Shotguns rarely even have rear sights, they're usually just a bead for the front sight. I used to shoot my dip cans at 45 yards with just a floater sight on my PSE Nova, so even a single reference sight for windage would be great.

[Rehamk]

We dont need sights on bows.

When I first started using the bow I wanted sights too. Now I dont need them I regularly take down deer's with a single shot. It is just a matter of experience ( as it would be in RL).

As Boston123 said, Bow are really difficult to make. We make them first time which seems unlikely. the premise that we could make a bow first time which is as effective as it is AND then put on sights in the correct point is even more unlikely.

I would like to be able to use the bow while crouched but I assume the bow may be too large to do this effectively.

[Boston123]

We dont need sights on bows.

When I first started using the bow I wanted sights too. Now I dont need them I regularly take down deer's with a single shot. It is just a matter of experience ( as it would be in RL).

As Boston123 said, Bow are really difficult to make. We make them first time which seems unlikely. the premise that we could make a bow first time which is as effective as it is AND then put on sights in the correct point is even more unlikely.

I would like to be able to use the bow while crouched but I assume the bow may be too large to do this effectively.

It would be possible, but you would have to hold it at a different angle, due to the length of the bow. This would, in turn, change both how you draw the bow (use different muscles for pulling in that fashion, more "arms" and less "back", which is not how you draw a bow) and therefore, how far and where you draw the string back to. This would change both your anchor point, your point-of-aim, and your draw-length. NOT FUN

Just crouch-walk up to the animal, as close as you can, then draw and loose as you stand up. It works in real life.

[Daxx Axx]

I hunt deer with a bow, I've used sights and no sights. A sight is easy to put on, I'm telling ya. Tape some match sticks on the side, and cut them to size for basic windage. DONE. Need to figure elevation for elevation? Point your index finger where it hit, then tape match sticks(or mark, and use rawhide or leather to strap them in place). And bows aren't as hard to make as y'all think, carve with grain, fire harden handle, and make sure to use DRY wood. And sinew string? Cut tendon or intestines into strips, twist them together, and let dry, preferably stretched. Sinew string made this was has a tensile strength of up to 28,000 psi.

[Boston123]

I hunt deer with a bow,

What kind of bow? Compound? Recurve? Neither are the type of bow we are making here in TLD. What we have here is a "self-bow". Self-bows don't have sights.

And bows aren't as hard to make as y'all think,

SuuurrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeHow many have you made? Not saying I don't trust you, but I'll believe you when I see pictures.

carve with grain,

Which "grain"? You are referring, of course, to the "growth rings" in the sap and heart-wood. In fact, if you see a wood-grain, you are probably carving through different growth rings, which is bad.

Tell me, do you know how much wood to remove from the back of the limbs? The belly? How long each limb has to be (hint: they aren't the same)? How to make sure each limb bends the same amount (aka the "tiller")?

fire harden handle, and make sure to use DRY wood.

Why would you fire-harden the handle? Fire-hardening makes the wood "stronger" by tightening up the fibers. This is a good thing for the belly, as that part of the limb undergoes "compression", but not for the back, that undergoes "tension". You want that back to stretch, and tightening up the back near the handle is just making it more likely the back will shatter. A light "toasting" over the entire back of the bow would be "better", but it isn't necessary at all.

And, not necessarily for the whole "dry wood" thing,either. You don't make a finished bow from green wood, yes, but you probably want to do the majority of the straightening and shaping while the limbs are still green. Shape it up, then let it season. Once the limbs are seasoned, commence with a final tillering.

And sinew string? Cut tendon or intestines into strips, twist them together, and let dry, preferably stretched. Sinew string made this was has a tensile strength of up to 28,000 psi.

True, but intestines are not sinew. Just an FYI. I have both 1)much better materials to make bowstrings from (aka the sinews you mention), and 2) much better uses for those intestines.

[EternityTide]

I will ask that we get different arrow heads. The current ones I would describe as bodkin tips. Bodkin tips aren't great at blood loss, therefore I request broadhead arrows. They'd be more expensive, and be unlocked at a craft skill level of 75, but the target would bleed out faster than the bodkin points.

[Hillbilly]

Really dont care how its done, but I am loosing too much meat and my arrows to wolves that run way to far after being shot. I am not saying a perfect lung-heart shot, but shot in the vitals area. wait a bit and trail them and the blood trail vanishes, even in good weather

[EternityTide]

well, HillBilly, sometimes that happens. In real life it is very difficult to track down a wounded animal, even if it leaves a bloodtrail, especially across challenging terrain.

[nicko]

An interesting topic, what stands out was using or creating a broad head arrow tip. That would be a cool if at some stage after crafting basics that we might be able to create one if we still have some metal of some sort.

Though you would have to still be good at aiming the darn thing - or just that shooting an arrow you can lose it. Which I have found happens a bunch of times which really sucks. in game that is lol.

[EternityTide]

An intersting topic, what stands out was using or creating a broad head arrow tip. That would be a cool if we at some stage after crafting basics might be able to create - and we still have metal of some sort that we can create a one kill broad arrow head.

Broadheads are not one-shot-kill arrowheads, they just increase the trauma on impact, and result in greater blood loss over a shorter period of time.

In that sense, they could be considered more humane, as they kill faster.

[nicko]

v258. I have crafted a bow and using it, what I find disturbing is I cannot crouch and shoot my bow? why not? please hinterland - allow us to crouch and fire. or explain why we can't do that!

[Boston123]

v258. I have crafted a bow and using it, what I find disturbing is I cannot crouch and shoot my bow? why not? please hinterland - allow us to crouch and fire. or explain why we can't do that!

Because in real life, you have to change up hold you both hold and draw the bow when crouching. Not saying it is "harder" to draw a bow when crouched, but with a self-bow and realized anchor points, it definitely takes some getting used to.

[Foxen]

Because in real life, you have to change up hold you both hold and draw the bow when crouching. Not saying it is "harder" to draw a bow when crouched, but with a self-bow and realized anchor points, it definitely takes some getting used to.

And what point of your answer makes our Character(s) unable to shoot while crouching?

I would also like to know why the Character can fire the Rifle in the crouched Position but not the bow...

...It's all about changing the angle of the (animated) bow...or what else is the Problem?

I mean...he/she (for some reason) obviously knows how to build the bow...therefore he/she should also be able to (at least) shoot it in different ways...

If the arrow then hits the aimed target...who knows...

[federico]

Because in real life, you have to change up hold you both hold and draw the bow when crouching. Not saying it is "harder" to draw a bow when crouched, but with a self-bow and realized anchor points, it definitely takes some getting used to.

And what point of your answer makes our Character(s) unable to shoot while crouching?

I would also like to know why the Character can fire the Rifle in the crouched Position but not the bow...

...It's all about changing the angle of the (animated) bow...or what else is the Problem?

I mean...he/she (for some reason) obviously knows how to build the bow...therefore he/she should also be able to (at least) shoot it in different ways...

If the arrow then hits the aimed target...who knows...

Have you ever shot a bow?

The best position to shot a bow is straight and with legs separated, and you shot to the side, not in front like with a gun. You need your back straight to stretch your arms well and also need to hold your breath to reduce any vibration in the bow.

Another thing is that common longbows and homemade bows are quite long, it'd be hard to stretch the bow while crouched, and I believe it'd also be hard to keep balance.

Btw, I have shot with bows for years (longbow and composite), and also made some homemade with my brother. It never occurred to me to shot crouched

And idea I have now is that you could make in-game a crossbow with a bow, fir log, and scrap metal.

[octavian]

Speaking of real life, can you imagine shooting a bow while freezing at below -40 Celsius wearing basically jammies, launching the arrow into the blizzard, wind blowing perpendicular to its trajectory, and it flying straight as an arrow? :lol:

Realism.

[federico]

Speaking of real life, can you imagine shooting a bow while freezing at below -40 Celsius wearing basically jammies, launching the arrow into the blizzard, wind blowing perpendicular to its trajectory, and it flying straight as an arrow? :lol:

Realism.

Actually having clothes especially in the arms is good for protection (I remember in my beginner days more than once ended up with a bleeding elbow )

If there's wind, the arrow should deflect, and you would be able to aim in accordance. But not during a blizzard, in that case I doubt you can even aim

[Foxen]

Have you ever shot a bow?

Hmmm...as an archer...Yep!

And from that i know it`s possible to shoot while crouched...and hit a target on point (at least at short ranges).

But hey...just to be clear...what are we talking about?

RL-Range-shooting or ingame Survival-behaviour?

Sure when shooting while crouched the Precision is less...the draw is less...therefore the effective range is less...the 'shooting comfort' is less...no Problem with that.

But you said that it's impossible...and that's not the Truth!

Especially in a Survival situation!

Our Character is a Pilot who (magically) knows how to build a (usable) Bow...and other things...and he's in a Survival Situation...guess what...he's not on a shooting Range trying to get Points on a long distanced Target.

Therefore and with the fact that he needs to get food (that's the intension of giving him the ability of crafting a Bow...) he'll have to get as close as possible to the spotted 'meal'...

If you've ever been in a hunting situation, you should know that your chances to get to a desired target (in this case the animal) raise when you try to 'vanish in the nature'...and therefore you want to crouch.

If you stumble right to the animal you will see the back of it right away...and it'll be gone long before you get into a shooting position

And in our Situation the Character is using what's called the 'intuitive shooting', what's something completely different from 'sports shooting'.

Remember:

We're talking Pilot in Survival Situation...and then you want the Devs to add the feature of building a crossbow and sights (that would have to be precise) and what else have you, too?

Sry, but for the fact that you argue about the ability to (intuitively) shoot a bow out of a crouched position and then want him to be able to build (and handle it the right way either...) a crossbow just makes absolutely no sense (at least to me).

[federico]

Ok, I see your point.

I'm also an archer, and I did not say it was impossible to shot crouched, just that it was harder (sorry if I didn't explain clear).

The crossbow idea (not sights) was from a gameplay perspective, as the op was suggesting improvements, and I always wanted to build one myself