Repairing/Harvesting

[keeshia]

I know there's other games that do this and I think it'd be beneficial to do in TLD as well. When you have two of the same item it'd be nice to repair the higher % one with any lower % items at a greater chance than using a cloth piece. I find it to be a no brainer - logically speaking, if I have two of the same or very similar items I can take pieces of one to mend the other rather easily and better than I can with a generic "cloth". Since the cloth piece could be an entirely different type of fabric, shape etc. Maybe require a sewing kit in order to repair with a like item? (since you'd need the scissors in it to match up the patching)

For harvesting, I would like to see higher condition items produce more of the harvested item. Say I have a sweater with a condition higher than 50% - realistically that means I should be able to get more than a single piece of usable cloth from it to repair other items.

[Raphael van Lierop]

The repairing system you describe is the same one used in Fallout 3, which works for that game in that there's no time cost associated with the action (it is purely about whether you have two of the same objects). In our game, the Harvesting action has a time cost, and so does the Repair. Keep in mind that along with the other resources you have to monitor in the game, time is actually the most valuable (and drives everything else). Logically speaking, having two of the same item (ex. two winter coats) doesn't make it easier to repair the one that's in better shape -- you still have to remove pieces of fabric/insulation/whatever and then find a way to use it to repair the other jacket. This is all assuming that generic "cloth" raw material is fully interchangeable, which in our system it currently is.

We've started to add depth to this by introducing Leather as another raw material type for clothing. We could continue pushing this further with more types of raw materials, to whatever extent we and the community wishes.

In terms of getting more raw materials when harvesting higher condition clothing items -- it's an interesting idea. It would require that we reduce the per-unit size of the Cloth raw material so provide some granularity, because at the moment things tend to generate 1-3 (mostly 1 though) Cloth item, and we can't break those down into decimal points (ex. .38 of a Cloth item), so we'd have to say, instead, that harvesting a jacket (for example) produces 45 Cloth "units" and repairing another item requires 18 Cloth "units", etc. We could do this, and it could be interesting. Need to think about it some more.

[RJIII]

In terms of getting more raw materials when harvesting higher condition clothing items -- it's an interesting idea. It would require that we reduce the per-unit size of the Cloth raw material so provide some granularity, because at the moment things tend to generate 1-3 (mostly 1 though) Cloth item, and we can't break those down into decimal points (ex. .38 of a Cloth item), so we'd have to say, instead, that harvesting a jacket (for example) produces 45 Cloth "units" and repairing another item requires 18 Cloth "units", etc. We could do this, and it could be interesting. Need to think about it some more.

Thumbs up here!

[keeshia]

Perhaps the middle ground would not necessarily that it always produces more of the raw item (cloth/leather) but increases the chance of it doing so - make it more likely to get 2 or 3 instead of one if the condition is above X%. That way it's not always consistent, I mean you could screw up and make it unusable scrap so that chance to get just 1 usable piece instead of 3 is still there.

Speaking as someone with decades of sewing experience, it is actually easier to repair one item from another of the same or very similar type - which is why I brought it up. If I have a hole in sweater 1 and sweater 2 doesn't have a hole in the same place then I can overlap, trim and repair much easier - however it takes more time because there's more steps. So perhaps increasing the time but also increasing the likelihood of success is the tradeoff? Personally I'd spend more time to do that if the situation allows it - like sitting there twiddling my thumbs waiting out blizzard conditions, which seems to be when I do a lot of harvest/repair stuff that's not otherwise "necessary" but still beneficial.

[jason_myles]

Maybe I'm doing something wrong and someone can point me in the right direction, but the repairing/harvesting subsystem of the game seems inaccessible.

When I find a toolbox, it is invariably in bad condition. I can harvest cloth from unneeded clothing 2 or 3 times before the toolbox disappears from my inventory. It also seems to decay without even using it. So, the strategy that I am thinking of is this:

1) when I find a toolbox, leave it where it is

2) when I find a second toolbox, immediately take it to the location of the first one

3) fix the first toolbox with the second one

4) fix the second one with the first one

5) finally leave one of the toolboxes behind

At that point, then, I would back track through all the locations that I have visited and take the things that I have left behind and harvest what I can and repair my items. (However, there doesn't seem to be enough food in the game to make two complete loops of all of the locations.)

What do other people do to extend the life of their clothes?

And is there a use for the workbench in the trapper's cabin? (Maybe it could increase the effectiveness of the toolbox.)

[Raphael van Lierop]

TheDivineOmega -- thanks for that insight about sewing and the ease of repairing something when you have two of the same thing. If we modify the current Repair system to offer more granularity (ex. using units of cloth and other raw materials vs. individual "cloth items"), then we probably won't be able to apply a bonus to recognize the use of "like materials" (otherwise we'll have to track where every unit of cloth was harvested from), but I could see us adding some more materials types to accomplish nearly the same thing -- ex. repairing Jeans with Denim units is more effective). Depends on how granular and detailed we want the system to become.

[Raphael van Lierop]

JasonMyles -- the Workbench in the Trapper's cabin is a legacy of a previous iteration on the Crafting/Repair system. It's still useful for crafting Heavy Bandages (notice you have a "blueprint" for these in your starting inventory). We're overhauling this system and I'd like to make the Workbench a useful location for crafting a bit more intricate stuff, vs. simpler items you can craft "in the field". We have some good ideas about how to improve this system, and we'll be looking to the community for feedback on what you all like and don't like about it.

[jason_myles]

Regarding the workbench: I think having the workbench apply bonuses to the tools is a good game mechanic. It forces me to make a choice, do a half ass job repairing my axe now or head to the cabin to repair it properly.

Further, as the game seems to be more about short term survival (rather than a giant quest where my character grows into a hero), skill progression doesn't make sense to me. (Plus Will is a bush pilot, it's reasonable that he would already have good base survival skills.) Instead, the decay level of the tools could take the place of skill and skill progression: the tools could effect the length of time to repair, the quality of the repair, and the chance of failure.

When it comes to crafting, I don't think schematics make much sense (same reasons as above). Will doesn't have to be an outright MacGuyver; it's reasonable to think he could throw together a makeshift spear (or slingshot, or knife, or rabbit snare). He just needs the tools and the resources.

Lastly, I think the penalties for carrying too much (a mechanic which I really like) gives you a lot of freedom when designing and tuning the crafting part of the game. You could increase non-food resources (more clothing on dead bodies, for example) without throwing the game off balance. While limited resources makes a lot of sense for The Long Dark, currently resources are so sparse that I don't have to make many choices about what to loot; I just take it all. If every dead body had an axe and lantern and gun and bullets, the game would be no fun; however by putting more lootables out there (whatever they may be), I'm forced to make choices.... maybe I get to the dam and I'm low on water, and my axe breaks while getting wood.... but there was that dead body I looted in the train loading area, and I didn't take his can opener... I can scavange that for metal.... but do I go out now? Will I be able to find the body in the blizzard? Do I have enough water to last through the night?

Just a couple ideas.

[TattooedMac]

Regarding the workbench: I think having the workbench apply bonuses to the tools is a good game mechanic. It forces me to make a choice, do a half ass job repairing my axe now or head to the cabin to repair it properly.

I like this idea. Add another element to the repairing questions you will have. A vice and table is easier to work with than a hand and rock to lean on.

Further, as the game seems to be more about short term survival (rather than a giant quest where my character grows into a hero), skill progression doesn't make sense to me.

You need to remember this is only the Sandboxed Version. In the real TLD release, its a story with a open world, and there will be further episodes. So to grow your skills, to become the baddest, maddest kick your tiny Bear Grills arse Will Mackenzie Survival GURU is where you will be aiming. I think as well, it needs to be in the Sandbox, albeit, in only small increments, that extra 2% fire lighting skill, could be the difference between life and death from the cold.

When it comes to crafting, I don't think schematics make much sense (same reasons as above). Will doesn't have to be an outright MacGuyver; it's reasonable to think he could throw together a makeshift spear (or slingshot, or knife, or rabbit snare). He just needs the tools and the resources.

Again, Blueprints is a great idea, because if you find the Blueprint to fix the Rifle, you will have a 100% success rate of doing it, because you have it all outlined for you in the Blueprint, but if you go at it half arsed, without any knowledge, why should you be able to fix a Rifle ?? Thats right you shouldn't be able to. If it wasn't for me growing up in the country, my 10yrs Aust Military service, I wouldn't have the faintest idea on Rifles, and just because Will is a Pilot, doesn't make him a expert in such things either . . .

My 2¢

[Raphael van Lierop]

Thanks for all the ideas, guys. We're currently thinking about ways in which to improve/overhaul the crafting/repair/harvesting system so this is all very much top of mind.

[heather]

Wish list item: I'd like to be able to repair my clothes with leather and not just cloth.

[heather]

Oo, and to loot cloth off of corpses.

[Raphael van Lierop]

Yup, hear you.

[heather]

I'd like to see the repair amount increase as your skill level goes up. I got up to 88%, but still could only fix my gloves by 20% each time. I'm a knitter...the better you get, the less you waste and the better your repairs are (knitting even, tight stitches as a proficient knitter gives you a warmer sweater than the first holey scarf you produce).

[RJIII]

I'd like to see the repair amount increase as your skill level goes up. I got up to 88%, but still could only fix my gloves by 20% each time. I'm a knitter...the better you get, the less you waste and the better your repairs are (knitting even, tight stitches as a proficient knitter gives you a warmer sweater than the first holey scarf you produce).

Another thumbs up