Please STOP CRAFTING

[BRAINSTUDIO]

In the beginning there was a long dark... only Mistery lake..

You need every cabin, every corpse every angle of the map

After a workbanch appear... and i was terrify of it..

Workbanch start working and there was some little things REALISTIC like hook for fisching , torch, medikit..a few

When animal dress appeared in the workbanch..i was not so happy but .. there was not a big impact on the game.ù

BUT THE BOW.. NO PLEASE NO! And if Yes..please after that STOP CRAFTING LIST!

STOP or call this game

"The long RUST" or "The long Forest" or worst "The long DarkenCRAFT"

This game is PERFECT withouth or with a little bit of crafting.. this game is BASED on exploration..as most realistic possible.

WHO CAN CRAFT A BOW..ARROWS.. I NEVER READ this game was CRAFTING BASED before buying it at day one

You don't need it, it's simply a TREND! "You don't have craft?...o no no no" "You don't have a bow?.. o no no no every game have a bow!

THINK OF IT BECAUSE you're bringing your FANTASTIC game on a dangerous street .. THE STREET OF COONFORMITY

THE STREET OF COMMERCIAL ONLY , tell me that now i can cut tree and build house and we touch the end..

Sorry for this "angry sound, i respect Hyterland, this game and you can see that i'm an "active" player from the first day.

Do as you want. I'm i'm alone and you everyone Minecraft generation wanna craft.. destroy this game with some other request of stupid things to craft

[TWM]

I for one like the crafting. It gives me options.

And for people who feels it detracts from the experience: hey, you're free to ignore that crafting table.

[Shadrach]

I am not a huge fan of crafting in games either, it often feels grindy - "gather X resources of type Y, click left mouse Z times to Craft a Badger".

However, I think TLD implements it fine, and I kind of like crafting clothing from fur, and traps, it makes sense in the game. If they introduce stupid stuff like crafting bullets from gunpowder and scrap metal, that would break immersion, since no-one can do that unless they are experts with the perfect set of tools.

[TWM]

If they introduce stupid stuff like crafting bullets from gunpowder and scrap metal, that would break immersion, since no-one can do that unless they are experts with the perfect set of tools.

Whereas making a pair of leather boots or a working bow requires little or no expertise whatsoever, right?

I liked where you were going with this, but I don't think this argument is going to work. Not with all the crafting of specialised items already available.

Of course, you struck a nerve because crafting reloads from spent casings and gunpowder was one of the things I was planning to request...

[octavian]

Given enough time you can do anything, within reason. If "unrealistic" just increase crafting time until "realistic". Also, a spent casing and gunpowder does not make a cartridge. Where do you get the bullet from? Make it yourself? :roll:

[TWM]

Where do you get the bullet from? Make it yourself?

Well, within the game we could pretend it could be done from a working bench with scrap metal and a toolbox.

I mean, if we'd go for realism, we'd ask for a urine/defecation bar, with the need to go outside to follow the call of nature every so often, right?

[Shadrach]

I mean, if we'd go for realism, we'd ask for a urine/defecation bar, with the need to go outside to follow the call of nature every so often, right?

:lol: The player could always choose to do it inside, then we could have a 'sanity' meter go down if you were forced to stay there too long :shock:

[Boston123]

In some way, I actually agree. Specifically, with the bow and arrow.

Bows and arrows are difficult to make, to the point where I wouldn't even consider making one in most survival situations. In the amount of time it takes to straighten, carve, tiller, and finish the bow, and straighten the arrows, you could have made 20 spears and 100 bolas, which are much easier to make and infinitely easier to use.

I actually got a little upset when I read that the bow was introduced.

[toebar]

In some way, I actually agree. Specifically, with the bow and arrow.

Bows and arrows are difficult to make, to the point where I wouldn't even consider making one in most survival situations. In the amount of time it takes to straighten, carve, tiller, and finish the bow, and straighten the arrows, you could have made 20 spears and 100 bolas, which are much easier to make and infinitely easier to use.

I actually got a little upset when I read that the bow was introduced.

Same here. As much as I feel guilty about disliking new content (and as happy as I am about great devs delivering good content), it just seems so generic to add a craftable bow.. and I want TLD to be anything but generic!

A found bow which would replace some rifle spawns would have been better imo. Do we know if rifle spawns have decreased with the addition of a new weapon?

[Shanti]

I for one feel that crafting is an integral part of a survival experience. If you give me an axe and a knife and strand me out somewhere, you better bet I'm going to start making things to improve my situation.

Also, with the right knowledge, making a bow is not that difficult, and a greenwood bow can be made with nothing but an axe and a knife in an afternoon, and have enough pull strength to fell a deer. This is the first video I found with a google search, he says "a couple of days"

His technique steams the wood, which is a bit more labor intensive than the simple whittling I saw someone else do. However, is this something a bush pilot would know how to do? Would I be confident enough to spend 15-20 hours of labor on a bow if I wasn't sure it would turn out? Probably not in both cases. Which brings me around to the crafting mechanic I proposed on a different thread, where we could find survival manuals which would explain how to craft these things.

+1 for spears. Especially in wolf infested areas, that would be the first weapon I would make.

A bolas would be interesting, I've never seen it implemented in a game before. Again, I think it would only make sense with a survival manual explaining how to make and throw it.

Personally, I think that part of your gripe with crafting could be solved by allowing us to start a project before we have collected all the materials. Got one wolf skin and some gut? You can craft up to about 25% of the wolf skin coat, at which point, you will need another skin and gut. This would make it easier to spread out the time spent crafting, and make it feel like less of a recipe that needs to be followed exactly.

[JoseyWales]

I like the idea of crafting some things. I don't want to see it get crazy but there is a good bit of crafting that can be added to give us things to do over the long haul. I think the bow is a pain in the ass to shoot as well as find the materials but I like it. It gives me something new to master and will also keep me busy in the game more. I also like that I have an alternative for the gun now as well as a way to still hunt If I run out of ammo.

All in all I think the devs are on the right path.. I'm happy.

[Boston123]

I for one feel that crafting is an integral part of a survival experience. If you give me an axe and a knife and strand me out somewhere, you better bet I'm going to start making things to improve my situation.

Also, with the right knowledge, making a bow is not that difficult, and a greenwood bow can be made with nothing but an axe and a knife in an afternoon, and have enough pull strength to fell a deer. This is the first video I found with a google search, he says "a couple of days"

His technique steams the wood, which is a bit more labor intensive than the simple whittling I saw someone else do. However, is this something a bush pilot would know how to do? Would I be confident enough to spend 15-20 hours of labor on a bow if I wasn't sure it would turn out? Probably not in both cases. Which brings me around to the crafting mechanic I proposed on a different thread, where we could find survival manuals which would explain how to craft these things.

+1 for spears. Especially in wolf infested areas, that would be the first weapon I would make.

A bolas would be interesting, I've never seen it implemented in a game before. Again, I think it would only make sense with a survival manual explaining how to make and throw it.

Personally, I think that part of your gripe with crafting could be solved by allowing us to start a project before we have collected all the materials. Got one wolf skin and some gut? You can craft up to about 25% of the wolf skin coat, at which point, you will need another skin and gut. This would make it easier to spread out the time spent crafting, and make it feel like less of a recipe that needs to be followed exactly.

Sure, you can build a bow in an afternoon, and have it be powerful and accurate enough to be able to kill a large-game animal. But, in the hours (at the very least) it would take you to carve said bow, tiller it, and carve, straighten, trim, nock, tip, and test one arrow, you could've made several spears and 100 bolas, which are just as useful as a bow, and much easier to use.

"With the right knowledge". Yes, with the right knowledge, anything is possible. But, making a bow is a lot more complicated than just "carve down stick, attach string", and making arrows is more involved than "dry stick, attach feathers, attach tip". If you take 1mm too much off one of the limbs, the bow will probably explode, sending splinters into your hand, arm, and face (personal experience with that one). If you make the draw-length too short, you won't be even near accurate. Conversely, if you make the draw length too long, you can stab yourself through the hand with the arrow if (when) it jumps the nock upon loosing) If you make the arrows too long, the arrow will be slow and have less power.

All but the most basic of bows are too .... complicated to make in an actual survival situation, in my opinion. And the ones that are "simple enough" (like a "Bundle Bow") are generally not worth the time and effort put into them.

A large part of survival is "playing the numbers game", where you have to compare the amount of energy and time it takes to "accomplish" something to the "results" from the action. Gathering firewood vs time and calories expended, etc etc. Sure, that bow might let you kill animals from farther away than my spear + bola. But compare the amount of time it takes to make the various weapons (hours, probably days for bow and arrow vs a couple of minutes, an hour tops for both the spear and bola), AND the amount of time it takes to become proficient with the weapons (long time for a bow vs something any idiot with two hands and a brainstem can do [stab and throw a rock]), and the spear/bola combo will almost always win.

Not including that a solid spear thrust to the torso will kill any and every animal on the North American continent very quickly, while they might take time to bleed out with a lightweight arrow.

[German4XXX]

I think your in the minority on this one. For me it adds layers of goals that I can set out to do in a playthrough and also maintain. First I think the crafting system they have is perfect, second when you started playing it was the first build in a game that was and still is in alpha...not much too the game, third, a survival game without crafting????? Sounds boring much like u describe....loot 7 homes and wait to die. Devs your system is working well, please keep it coming.

[ElvisHunter]

+1 for crafting spear. =D

[Shanti]

A large part of survival is "playing the numbers game", where you have to compare the amount of energy and time it takes to "accomplish" something to the "results" from the action. Gathering firewood vs time and calories expended, etc etc. Sure, that bow might let you kill animals from farther away than my spear + bola. But compare the amount of time it takes to make the various weapons (hours, probably days for bow and arrow vs a couple of minutes, an hour tops for both the spear and bola), AND the amount of time it takes to become proficient with the weapons (long time for a bow vs something any idiot with two hands and a brainstem can do [stab and throw a rock]), and the spear/bola combo will almost always win.

Not including that a solid spear thrust to the torso will kill any and every animal on the North American continent very quickly, while they might take time to bleed out with a lightweight arrow.

I completely agree. However, a Bola suffers from a lot of drawbacks over a bow, like the effective range, but perhaps more importantly, the motion that you have to go through to throw it. From the (admittedly small amount of) research I have done, every one of the sources commented on how difficult a Bola is to throw while standing in underbrush, and how close to your prey you have to get (10-15 yards was a pretty consistent estimate). So, with both of these drawbacks, it makes it much harder to stalk, and therefore hunt a deer, or other animal that will see you and spook.

I hope that the devs have some changes with regards to how frequently wildlife spawns, and how they react to the player in the future. If they are willing to invest in more realistic wildlife, then hunting will become much more challenging, and the option to craft a spear, bola and bow would all have their place - the spear and bola in the begging as quick to make, easy to use, early defensive weapons, with the bow being a much higher investment in crafting time and proficiency to master, which the smart player would start to phase in as he/she begins to run out of rifle ammo.

[Boston123]

A large part of survival is "playing the numbers game", where you have to compare the amount of energy and time it takes to "accomplish" something to the "results" from the action. Gathering firewood vs time and calories expended, etc etc. Sure, that bow might let you kill animals from farther away than my spear + bola. But compare the amount of time it takes to make the various weapons (hours, probably days for bow and arrow vs a couple of minutes, an hour tops for both the spear and bola), AND the amount of time it takes to become proficient with the weapons (long time for a bow vs something any idiot with two hands and a brainstem can do [stab and throw a rock]), and the spear/bola combo will almost always win.

Not including that a solid spear thrust to the torso will kill any and every animal on the North American continent very quickly, while they might take time to bleed out with a lightweight arrow.

I completely agree. However, a Bola suffers from a lot of drawbacks over a bow, like the effective range, but perhaps more importantly, the motion that you have to go through to throw it. From the (admittedly small amount of) research I have done, every one of the sources commented on how difficult a Bola is to throw while standing in underbrush, and how close to your prey you have to get (10-15 yards was a pretty consistent estimate). So, with both of these drawbacks, it makes it much harder to stalk, and therefore hunt a deer, or other animal that will see you and spook.

I hope that the devs have some changes with regards to how frequently wildlife spawns, and how they react to the player in the future. If they are willing to invest in more realistic wildlife, then hunting will become much more challenging, and the option to craft a spear, bola and bow would all have their place - the spear and bola in the begging as quick to make, easy to use, early defensive weapons, with the bow being a much higher investment in crafting time and proficiency to master, which the smart player would start to phase in as he/she begins to run out of rifle ammo.

That is just the thing: you use a bola like a sling. As in, you don't whirl it around your head. That is a mistake many people make when using these weapons. A single turn is enough to build up lethal velocity, and with a bola, you don't even need that. The bola is there to stop the animal from running away by tangling up the legs/breaking the bones, while the spear is for the killing blow

However, a bola WILL kill smaller game (rabbits and squirrels definitely, as well as basically any bird.) in one hit, due to the sheer force exerted by the weights. You could even feasibly kill a dog/wold with the throw, depending on where they got hit. Take a 5 oz weight, attach it to a 3 foot cord, and sling it at a target. That is a LOT of force exerted on target. The cords could wrap around the legs of larger game to trip them up, or it could just break the legs outright.

I've taken pigeons and seagulls with a bola before, quite easily. They are very effective.

As for how they "interact" with underbrush, that is true, but don't forget: arrows get "knocked aside" by underbrush as well.

[toebar]

I feel better about the bow now having read the description in game. Calling it a 'survival bow' is at least an indication the bow's 'quality' and that it's not a full substitute for the rifle for defense and hunting.

As to the OP's suggestion that there is too much crafting, and that's is overdone in games--- I would say that TLD does crafting better, and that's why it's a good component of TLD.

[Incariuz]

Which brings me around to the crafting mechanic I proposed on a different thread, where we could find survival manuals which would explain how to craft these things.

That is exactly how I'd love to see crafting go. There could be several useful recipes for crafting that could only be made after finding information on how to make them. Then make the rarity of finding the books/manuals based on how useful they are, and even make it where finding manuals for all possible recipes in a single play through is impossible. This way each game the player has to adapt to different skills to help in surviving. That's how I'd love to see it at least.

On a different note, that bow is a pain in the ass to use, I fail with it, lol.

[Boston123]

I feel better about the bow now having read the description in game. Calling it a 'survival bow' is at least an indication the bow's 'quality' and that it's not a full substitute for the rifle for defense and hunting.

As to the OP's suggestion that there is too much crafting, and that's is overdone in games--- I would say that TLD does crafting better, and that's why it's a good component of TLD.

It is capable of taking down a wolf, and even a bear.

This is something similar to what we can make in-game. Similar work, similar materials

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFTPxK2X0NA

Note the amount of time it takes to make. Let it season, and it is effectively a "self bow", which is far from primitive. Not something I would want to make "in the bush". I AM making one right now, but in the comfort of my own home.

This, on the other hand, is a "style" of bow much more suited for making in an actual survival situation. Couple of sticks, some rags, and you are set. No carving, no tillering. Easy. Plus, it makes sense considering how fast the bow and arrow degrades in-game.

[toebar]

This, on the other hand, is a "style" of bow much more suited for making in an actual survival situation. Couple of sticks, some rags, and you are set. No carving, no tillering. Easy. Plus, it makes sense considering how fast the bow and arrow degrades in-game.

You make some good points and I agree with you in general. I haven't had a chance to craft or test the in game bow, so I better not comment too much on it, since I don't really know it's capabilities, ease-of-use etc Still, the in game description seems to indicate that it's geared toward small game-- I'd be happier if it's capabilities matched that description.

It's still a new thing, so I guess we'll have to wait and see. perhaps there's room for a quick survival bundle bow, AND a higher quality one (with much greater time investment, and perhaps requiring learning a certain skill, if the game goes that route...)

[BigJayA]

In some way, I actually agree. Specifically, with the bow and arrow.

Bows and arrows are difficult to make, to the point where I wouldn't even consider making one in most survival situations. In the amount of time it takes to straighten, carve, tiller, and finish the bow, and straighten the arrows, you could have made 20 spears and 100 bolas, which are much easier to make and infinitely easier to use.

I actually got a little upset when I read that the bow was introduced.

Same here. As much as I feel guilty about disliking new content (and as happy as I am about great devs delivering good content), it just seems so generic to add a craftable bow.. and I want TLD to be anything but generic!

A found bow which would replace some rifle spawns would have been better imo. Do we know if rifle spawns have decreased with the addition of a new weapon?

I too was disappointed when I saw the bow on the changelog. So much so that I checked to see if it was april 1st. It wasn't. :cry:

A spear? YES! A bow? ...seriously? NO! I can throw an arrow harder than any bow I make ever could. Just give me my pointy stick to fight off wolves and bears.

[MueckE]

Overall i think the devs do a good job and i feel that the game is going in the right direction.

It is all about balancing. Is it better to find cangoods or be forced to hunt/gather food? Is it better

to find tons of cloth or beeing forced to make you own cloth? Is it better to find a working rifle with lots of

amunition or beeing forced to fight a wolf with your hands/knife or beeing able to craft a weapon?

It seems that all the things like canfood just were placeholder or maybe for new players (like the modes)

I mean, did you guys notice that the absolut majority of all players dont survive more that 5 days in pilgrim and voyager?

What do you expect?

I dont think that this majority will anyway be able to gather all materials, craft it, successfully hunt, harvest and so on ..

so whats the point? And for all stalker-player it is much nicer to be forced to craft a bow instead of finding a rifle.

If you dont do this, you always have the question how many riflespawns are balanced and how much ammunition is fair and so on - thats bullshit

I am very happy with the last update (no, i dont like the bow. If you add a bow than you should remove the rifle completely from stalker) but overall everything goes in the same direction as the suggestions i made.

From this point of view, i am totally fine with the bow (just remove the rifle )

[BigJayA]

The playstyle in TLD is more freeform than not so there is no need to balance everything as if it were a console game. The bow is silly cos it isn't realistic. I have hopes that it will be scrapped in a future update but, like welfare, it would be hard to unscramble this egg. I just never craft the darn thing and go about my merry way. Now if we were to come across a manufactured bow in a cabin somewhere I would gladly spend hours trying to make passable arrows for it. But making my own bow from scratch, and having it functional enough to do any good, is far beyond my skills along with im guessing 99%+ of the rest of the world.

[toebar]

As you say, hard to unscramble-- but re balancing it to resemble an actual survival bow would be simpler (and would make a lot of sense if there were to be a bow to be found in a cabin). If it says it's for small game, then bear hunting is a bit of a stretch.

[Scyzara]

As you say, hard to unscramble-- but re balancing it to resemble an actual survival bow would be simpler (and would make a lot of sense if there were to be a bow to be found in a cabin). If it says it's for small game, then bear hunting is a bit of a stretch.

It's really odd: For me, bears are in fact way easier to hunt with the current bow than rabbits - simply because they're bigger and thus harder to miss. Not sure if it's just me being completely inept to aim decently with that thing, but I'm totally unable to hit anything as small as a (moving) rabbit 20m away from me. Even though I try to consider gravity, wind direction, the bow's left twist, etc.

I guess that's somehow realistic in a way, but it certainly doesn't fit the description about small game hunting. Might be that I need more practice to get used to it, but at least atm I'm only able to use the bow like I usually use the rifle - for close proximity (<10m) headshots. And I somehow really doubt that this is the "intended" way to use it.^^