Fire by friction


Sivivor

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Hey all

Iam currently on day 40 interloper and iam slowly running out of matches. I haven't found a fire starter or magnifying glass yet. It seems to me my character will die from lack of matches above anything else at the moment. 

With a better fire rating knowledge we do not need tinder to start fire anymore, surely it would  be a good idea if they were used for starting fire by friction with sticks? Maybe the stick need to be dried out for a few days inside prior to use. A percentage of success penalty and time taken to start the fire increase seems a fair trade off. Maybe a fire rating of 5 unlocks this ability? Crafting a small bow and spindle from wood which can perish with use.

I think the lack of matches as an endgame trigger doesn't fit well with the survival aspects of TLD. 

 

 

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They are allegedly adding the bow method of fire starting in the next update.

In the meantime I can link a list of known spawns in Interloper, which includes matches and fire striker locations.....but you may consider that a spoiler, so click at your own risk.

That being said, there are numerous definite match and fire striker locations even on Interloper...more than enough to light one fire a day every day for at least several hundred days if you collect them all....

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=888366399

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Thats great to hear i hope they do Thrasador. 

I agree there are a few matches spawns dotted around each region. I forgot to take my last box out of a cupboard before i started crafting some boots outside -25, rather than run back home to fetch them i decided to try the last car on coastal highway road, bam! matches on the floor in the back of the car :)

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Sivivor said:

Thats great to hear i hope they do Thrasador. 

I agree there are a few matches spawns dotted around each region. I forgot to take my last box out of a cupboard before i started crafting some boots outside -25, rather than run back home to fetch them i decided to try the last car on coastal highway road, bam! matches on the floor in the back of the car :)

 

 

There ya go! Yes, random matches all around! :) Sometimes they are in the glove box too. I have also found matches on shelves in homes, fireplace mantles, and occasionally in kitchen cabinets....

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On ‎7‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 6:56 PM, Thrasador said:

They are allegedly adding the bow method of fire starting in the next update.

In the meantime I can link a list of known spawns in Interloper, which includes matches and fire striker locations.....but you may consider that a spoiler, so click at your own risk.

That being said, there are numerous definite match and fire striker locations even on Interloper...more than enough to light one fire a day every day for at least several hundred days if you collect them all....

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=888366399

Where did you find this leaked info? I'm curious so that I can snoop myself :)

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7 hours ago, CalNieDaGtarGuy said:

Where did you find this leaked info? I'm curious so that I can snoop myself :)

Oh man...well I believe it is on the road map amongst ideas that already have been implemented in the game....

I believe I read an official response in a thread somewhere weeks ago, but I cannot remember exactly where or who said it. I have a pretty good memory though, so I don't think I am making this up. I guess unless you find it via search method, you will have to take it on faith, lol.

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Don't forget the magnifying glass.  A tactic someone shared in another thread, if you didn't have anything else to use, was to light a fire outdoors with the magnifying glass, grab a torch and take that inside to light a fire in there.

The roadmap in question, for those curious:

http://hinterlandgames.com/the-long-dark/roadmap/

I stated this before, but of all the Early Access games I have gotten into, The Long Dark has the best record so far of implementing features that developers did list in a roadmap.

I would imagine it is several miles down, but that seasons idea they listed has me rather intrigued.

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After consuming all but 2 of the matches from PV,DP and coastal highway i decided to take 40kg of my stuff to mystery lake in search of mag glass. It was an epic walk with 1hour sleep en route to make it on the lake itself with 10 hp.

It's ok I have x3 emergency stims, oops I left them at coastal highway fishing camp :-(

I dropped most of my stuff on the ice just making camp office door with 1hp. Lucky very lucky

I now have the mag glass lol

 

The medium to long-term goals on the roadmap look very interesting.

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1 hour ago, Sivivor said:

After consuming all but 2 of the matches from PV,DP and coastal highway i decided to take 40kg of my stuff to mystery lake in search of mag glass. It was an epic walk with 1hour sleep en route to make it on the lake itself with 10 hp.

It's ok I have x3 emergency stims, oops I left them at coastal highway fishing camp :-(

I dropped most of my stuff on the ice just making camp office door with 1hp. Lucky very lucky

I now have the mag glass lol

 

The medium to long-term goals on the roadmap look very interesting.

Ouch....that was a rough trip....what was killing you? Exhaustion? Starving? Why didn't you sleep in one of the many Ravine area caves? Also the ravine has rocks and bunnies, and occasionally a couple deer with NO wolves or bears. It is actually one of my FAVORITE areas to chillax....

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Its was the temperature Thrasador. I was about to craft a wolfskin coat before i left, but as the work table at fishing camp is outside i was burning matches so fast crafting and my meat supplies were dwindling. I only have x2 synthetic coats ones a shell. I have rabbit mitts dearskin boots and pants.

As i was low condition i couldn't find the time to collect much fire wood for an "all nighter" 

Thing is when i arrived at ML with very low condition and found out i forgot the stims i popped into the dam with the intention of fighting fluffy, i left my lamp and a flair burning by the inside door to deter him from where i was sleeping next to the exit door. i slept for maybe 2 hours to recover some health. It wasnt great as i only gained a few % back but just enough to get me to camp office door. Fluffy howled as i left the dam as if to let me know hes spawned near. 

I looted the whole dam found 12 matches :) not much else tbh. I have to revisit the dam briefly to collect all my hides/skins i left on the floor but as always in interloper its -40 and what feels like hurricane winds.

The struggle is real. 

I do need to learn the art of sleeping rough in the caves with a stack of fire wood. Especially now as i have only recently collected a bedroll so the cabin fever mechanic has only just been activated in this playthrough.  I carried an uncured bearskin from CH so iam half way to a bearskin roll :-) 

 

EDIT : i suppose i could have used a match for a fire mid route and boiled up a mushroom brew for warmth bonus but damn i was holding onto those last matches a little too tightly :D 

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9 minutes ago, Sivivor said:

Its was the temperature Thrasador. I was about to craft a wolfskin coat before i left, but as the work table at fishing camp is outside i was burning matches so fast crafting and my meat supplies were dwindling. I only have x2 synthetic coats ones a shell. I have rabbit mitts dearskin boots and pants.

As i was low condition i couldn't find the time to collect much fire wood for an "all nighter" 

Thing is when i arrived at ML with very low condition and found out i forgot the stims i popped into the dam with the intention of fighting fluffy, i left my lamp and a flair burning by the inside door to deter him from where i was sleeping next to the exit door. i slept for maybe 2 hours to recover some health. It wasnt great as i only gained a few % back but just enough to get me to camp office door. Fluffy howled as i left the dam as if to let me know hes spawned near. 

I looted the whole dam found 12 matches :) not much else tbh. I have to revisit the dam briefly to collect all my hides/skins i left on the floor but as always in interloper its -40 and what feels like hurricane winds.

The struggle is real. 

I do need to learn the art of sleeping rough in the caves with a stack of fire wood. Especially now as i have only recently collected a bedroll so the cabin fever mechanic has only just been activated in this playthrough.  I carried an uncured bearskin from CH so iam half way to a bearskin roll :-) 

 

EDIT : i suppose i could have used a match for a fire mid route and boiled up a mushroom brew for warmth bonus but damn i was holding onto those last matches a little too tightly :D 

Ouch, I see. I don't think I realized you were on Interloper. Yeah, between the extreme cold of Interloper, and the often lack of good clothing...I suppose some caves would be mighty dangerous on Interloper without a fire. I do know the warmth bonus of caves and things allegedly increase as the temperature decreases due to the World Decay mechanic.

I cannot speak intelligently though, on how warm any of the caves in the Ravine may have been on your playthrough. People HAVE reported though, that the temperature decay in Interloper ends at day 50. So if you are now past day 50....that's as cold as it's gonna get during "nice" days and blizzard days.

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Just now, Thrasador said:

I do know the warmth bonus of caves and things allegedly increase as the temperature decreases due to the World Decay mechanic.

I cannot speak intelligently though, on how warm any of the caves in the Ravine may have been on your playthrough. People HAVE reported though, that the temperature decay in Interloper ends at day 50. So if you are now past day 50....that's as cold as it's gonna get during "nice" days and blizzard days.

Ah thanks for this, my journal says day 59. Its the temperature thats the only thing that would make me go back to stalker. I do enjoy the challenge of starting a new game on interloper with really bad odds against the character. after many failed attempts i feel like i was handed a rare easier start after deleting and loading a new character a few times. The starting temperature was milder so i could loot all of pleasant valley before going to desolation point to craft arrow heads and knives.

Now its hell (in a good way) 

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15 minutes ago, Sivivor said:

Ah thanks for this, my journal says day 59. Its the temperature thats the only thing that would make me go back to stalker. I do enjoy the challenge of starting a new game on interloper with really bad odds against the character. after many failed attempts i feel like i was handed a rare easier start after deleting and loading a new character a few times. The starting temperature was milder so i could loot all of pleasant valley before going to desolation point to craft arrow heads and knives.

Now its hell (in a good way) 

People have stated that the temperature is so bad on Interloper....especially during blizzards, that clothes make no discernible difference in how fast you get hypothermia and whatnot. So you may as well just run naked to wherever you are going and just put on clothes when you get there, lol.

That sounds insane to me. That may have been before the frostbite mechanic as well. Now I believe you get frostbite faster on any body part that is not covered with any item of clothing. That being said, it may make sense to keep a light crappy clothing set (if possible) on Interloper that you let take damage in storms, but wear so you don't get immediate frostbite risk. Then put on your good clothing that you don't want to wreck in blizzards, when you reach shelter. Obviously that is a bit difficult on Interloper due to the rarity of items, including clothing....but it's just an idea I'm throwing out there if you find spare crappy clothes like fleece mittens and T-shirts....

You could have like a blizzard set that takes damage: Cotton Toque or scarf, T-shirt or other crappy shirt, jeans, fleece mittens, gym socks, sneakers....

Then you drop all that crap by a fire (if you make one) and let it thaw out/dry off and put on your warmer outfit....

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Thanks thats an interesting strategy, i have double wool socks and double torque hats and double thermals(not wool) which has helped with frostbite but like you say if the weather is bad(normal) it doesnt really matter what you wear negative temp is just negative temp. Reducing the clothing damage is interesting. One obvious benefit is less wood needed to reach positive temperature when making fires, which is crucial as i find it hard to hoard lots of wood for long fires atm. 

I need to work on my firewood collecting skills because the wolfskin coat as nice as it is has given me cabin fever after 32hours crafting. Off to the icehut for some late night fishing and sleeping :) 

 

 

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Back on the topic...

I am going to say a very unpopular opinion - I think that "friction fire" methods added into the game are a horrible idea, and here is why:

As someone who tried friction fire before, I can safely say it is "very difficult" in the best of circumstances - and that's desert-dry wood and indoors windless dry environment with lots of dry tinder. In such conditions maybe it would be possible to make the fire this way. But those conditions are just impossible for the Long Dark. Therefore, I think there shouldn't be a friction fire method, or at best, it should be only possible indoors.

I expect a lot of people here have seen or watch various Survival shows. Be it Man vs Wild, Man, Woman, wild, Dual Survival, Ray Mears's  extreme survival or Survivorman, or the "Lost in the wild" etc - I have yet to see a single Survival expert build a friction fire in the snow conditions. It is almost impossible even in damp conditions, let alone in the snow.

Calm down, here is an alternative

For ages, people built fire using flint and steel. I am sure most people have seen it at least once in the movies, but here is a picture of how usual "steel" looks:

flint-and-steel.jpg

This makes much more sense than friction fire because similar steels are being used to build fire in the arctic to this day. When you run out of matches you can always rely on your trusty piece of metal.

To make its acquisition a bit more difficult, I believe this steel should be smithing recipe. For one piece of scrap metal and 2 hours, you can smith this "flint and steel". It would be usable right after crafting (flints are common everywhere), would have the same condition like a firestarter, but it would provide the same bonus as "Magnifying glass" does now (because it's not easy to make fire using flint and steel). Advantages compared to the Magnifying glass are obvious - can be used to make fire indoors and regardless of weather.

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On 7/25/2017 at 9:41 AM, Thrasador said:

People have stated that the temperature is so bad on Interloper....especially during blizzards, that clothes make no discernible difference in how fast you get hypothermia and whatnot. So you may as well just run naked to wherever you are going and just put on clothes when you get there, lol.

This should be an achievement lol

 

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8 hours ago, CalNieDaGtarGuy said:

@Mroz4k What type of method did you use? Bow and drill method isn't a bad idea if you ask me, but rubbing two sticks together seems more like a wives' tale.

I have done both bow and drill (successfully) and fire plow (unsuccessfully), but that's beside the point. Any method that works with a friction fire requires to have bone-dry wood and plenty of dry tinder to work with, as well as minimal wind. In arctic conditions there will be constant moisture in the air ((microscopic snow that falls constantly, hence why the clothes keep getting damp regardless of what you do outside) and that greatly reduces chances of successful friction fire. Add the fact that most of the wood you would find would be constantly wet inside, so unless you dropped the wood inside for three days before using it, the friction fire option is a pipe dream. 

Now making a fire with a flint and steel in damp conditions would still be very challenging (hence I think it should have a low chance of success) but it is not as impossible as a friction fire because the source of that fire comes from a very hot, firey shrapnels of the steel, and those sparks have pretty high temperature in the first place, which makes the tinder likely to start smouldering upon contact. Friction fire method relies on you, making so much effort to raise the temperature of your bottom piece of wood that you create a very small, smoldering piece of charcoal, which is then placed into a ball of tinder and blown to life. If you fail at that stage, you have to start over again - with flint and steel all you need to do is scratch it again to get to that same situation.

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all valid points Mroz4k. 

Perhaps exclude the firestarter from stalker and interloper but have the crafting of flint/metal fire making tools. As long as the fire starting tools need to be crafted i think this would fit well with the game.

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All very legitimate, realistic points indeed. Someone once let me in on some great insight, though. Although TLD is somewhat realistic, it can't be completely realistic. I mean, the firewood would  be soaking wet, in which case it would make it nearly impossible to light a fire even with a match, let alone friction fire methods. Without fire, death ensues quickly in this game. As for harvesting meat from deer, it would be extremely difficult to hack even a small chunk of meat out of a completely frozen deer. Not to mention the fact that dead animals quickly release chemicals to kickstart decomposition, which after some time renders the meat uneatable.

There are lots of unrealistic things about TLD, but there are also very realistic things as well. My point is, even though friction fire might not seem like a plausible idea in a winter scenario, its not necessarily about the realism, but more about what would make the game richer than it already is. After all, the devs had this idea going on their roadmap for almost a year now, meaning that they approve. 

Don't bash me for this please. All I'm trying to say is that there will be pros and cons to everything added to any game, not just TLD. Whether the aim is realism or not, whatever might make the game more fun is the important part. 

P.S. With all the harrowing last minute moments each of us have experienced, wouldn't it be so cool if we got a fire going by friction in our final moments of a difficult sandbox?

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