Stick bundles


Miniwizard

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Just thought I'd put this suggestion (which I had mentioned as part of another post): Stick bundles.

A way to combine multiple sticks into a bundle. Would help to reduce the 'clutter' of dropped sticks, and the tedium of picking them all back up again, and also make burning sticks in bulk somewhat easier too.

Sticks can be combined into bundles of 10 (possibly using a line, adding more reason to use guts to create lines rather than a line's single use for a fishing tackle)

These bundles can be:

  • Dropped (requires new model obviously) as a single item rather than 10 individual sticks
  • Harvested (to get back the 10 sticks as separate items)
  • Burned as a single item (1hr 20mins of fuel - 10x 8mins)

It would allow the player to more easily calculate how much firewood (in the way of sticks) one has lying on the floor at their camp location, and keep their floor area neater (given that there is often inadequate storage containers for items)

It would mean less clicking when picking them back up again or when adding numerous sticks to a fire (can be added as a bundle with the same effect as 10 individual sticks)

TLD-Craft.thumb.jpg.ef0ca568f395b1fc76235622614d19a4.jpg

TLD-Inv.thumb.jpg.96f8a240b7289b232cba69a8ea7c4b98.jpg

TLD-Harvest.thumb.jpg.ee56533d9d239822efc0f37817769704.jpg

 

New item, new model, new crafting recipe, additional translations of name and descriptions... - I appreciate nothing is ever as 'quick and easy' to implement as one might think, but attached a few mockups to demonstate how it could 'fit into the game'

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29 minutes ago, Dirmagnos said:

Id like to have limit to up to 100, but even 10 would be a huge step in the right direction.

Yes, when I first made the suggestion as an offhand comment, I initially mentioned a bundle of 20. However, it then occured to me that other than as dropped storage, it could quite quickly become annoying constantly creating and 'harvesting' said bundles. 10 seemed to create a nice 'weight' (1.5kg) and a decent enough size to pick up a or drop a couple. 100 would be a 15kg mass..

10 was also roughly the equivalent of a log in terms of burning time (at 1hr 20 - if using a correlating value of the 8mins/stick)

This would also allow easily dropping off small bundles of sticks in various locations as emergency supplies, markers, or extra backups.

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On 6/28/2017 at 3:02 PM, Miniwizard said:

Just thought I'd put this suggestion (which I had mentioned as part of another post): Stick bundles.

A way to combine multiple sticks into a bundle. Would help to reduce the 'clutter' of dropped sticks, and the tedium of picking them all back up again, and also make burning sticks in bulk somewhat easier too.

Sticks can be combined into bundles of 10 (possibly using a line, adding more reason to use guts to create lines rather than a line's single use for a fishing tackle)

These bundles can be:

  • Dropped (requires new model obviously) as a single item rather than 10 individual sticks
  • Harvested (to get back the 10 sticks as separate items)
  • Burned as a single item (1hr 20mins of fuel - 10x 8mins)

It would allow the player to more easily calculate how much firewood (in the way of sticks) one has lying on the floor at their camp location, and keep their floor area neater (given that there is often inadequate storage containers for items)

It would mean less clicking when picking them back up again or when adding numerous sticks to a fire (can be added as a bundle with the same effect as 10 individual sticks)

TLD-Craft.thumb.jpg.ef0ca568f395b1fc76235622614d19a4.jpg

TLD-Inv.thumb.jpg.96f8a240b7289b232cba69a8ea7c4b98.jpg

TLD-Harvest.thumb.jpg.ee56533d9d239822efc0f37817769704.jpg

 

New item, new model, new crafting recipe, additional translations of name and descriptions... - I appreciate nothing is ever as 'quick and easy' to implement as one might think, but attached a few mockups to demonstate how it could 'fit into the game'

I like this.  I assume that when you harvest it, you get the line back. 

I'm not certain why I got the likes for this, I only quoted Miniwizard's post, he deserves the credit.

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1 minute ago, starfighter441 said:

I like this.  I assume that when you harvest it, you get the line back.

I was thinking that it would be the cost involved, and lost when either burning or harvesting. However, perhaps guts could create more than just 2 lines, making them slightly more disposable while adding an extra in-game use for them. Guts are after all quite numerous and easily replenishable. But, I also imagine that a player might well have (or desire to have) quite a few bundles of sticks lying around, thus needing quite a lot of lines to create them.

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It's not a terrible idea, and I am impressed with your created images which did the art department's job for them. Maybe they should just hire you to fix things in the game for them.

Could you make some images for forging a prybar out of 4 scrap metal?And one for a pickaxe out of 4 scrap metal and a fir log? Also a few for crafting various other clothing out of furs, like a hat with ear flaps out of bunny and/or deer pelts. Like 3 bunny pelts and 1 gut, and 1 deer pelt and 1 gut?

The only issue I have at all with the idea is it's more of an organizational idea for more of an OCD stick pile problem instead of a more pressing problem (at least for me) like encumbrance. Everyone has a different internal rating system of severity of issues that need to be addressed, and stick piles might be way up on your list, but I don't care as much about ugly stick piles as I do about wanting more versatility in crafting choices.

I would put needing stick piles up there with needing a way to stack my cedar and fir logs in a way that resembles how people who have wood stoves stack it outside their house.  I have a huge pile of rishi mushrooms I don't know what to do with....maybe I need a fungus fanny pack...

I kid. I kid...

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@JoE Smash Well, the only reason I did those mockups was that it employed the use of existing UIs but was essentially an item with an unusual functionality - in that it could be used/burned as is, or broken back down again using the 'harvest' option to get the individual sticks back. Other items are mostly either just crafted, or only harvested.

There are plenty of additonal crafting options I think would be beneficial to the game. Such as:

  • The improvised crowbar option, and improvised pick (although coal can respawn on the cave floors anyway)
  • 3-4 Crude Arrows (single use before being broken) carved from a fir/cedar log. The current, reusable, arrows from saplings would still be preferential as they can be used repeatedly when picked back up, but the crude ones could be made as a basic substitute - though you would be wasting both time and potential fuel in doing so.
  • Additional clothing options from pelts and guts - especially the missing craftable hat option.
  • Possibly some form of fixed location container (could be placed on the ground using similar mechanic to a snow shelter) using reclaimed wood, pelts, guts..
  • Possibly a basic (but heavy) early game spear/staff from a fallen limb to act as a brandishable deterent to wildlife until you find better options to defend yourself or it becomes too much of a burden to your carry-weight. Possibly also reducing the chance of a sprained ankle when carried.
  • Alternative crafting recipe for a snowshelter than uses pelts instead of cloth.

The stick bundles may seem more of an organisational OCD/QoL suggestion, but the longer you survive, or the harder the difficulty you play, the more you must rely on mass amounts of sticks and collecting stockpiles of them. Picking them all back up again, or even knowing how many you have in store, is currently pretty awkward.

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I'm more down with it if it is a rare case of when reverse crafting it i.e. harvesting it, you get all items returned including the crafted line. I am assuming we are not tying the line in a perma-knot, because we are intending to unbundle them for use at some point. I envisioned tying the knot the way one ties one's shoes....so they can be untied....

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Well, as I mentioned before, I considered that, but I also think that things in the game should deteriorate and/or be lost over time. Lines are pretty cheap (and could be made cheaper 1 gut = 4 or 5 lines) and then it would be fairly negligable to lose one per bundle. I think the fact that things slowly get used up (even if from a renewable source) is a driving factor or making long term survival progressively more challenging.

I consider it more as a 'too knotted' to re-use or that you couldn't cleanly untie it and so cut the bundle loose instead, thus ruining it.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I love this idea, I would mention though that due to their increased surface area compared to a log the burn time would have to be lowered accordingly. They would also produce correspondingly greater heat levels during their short burn.

I think it could also be extended by bundling tinder items and turning them into fuel items, again with a low burn time, high temp increase. This would also mitigate the general uselessness of tinder items after obtaining fire starting level 3.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/25/2017 at 9:14 AM, Fitz said:

I love this idea, I would mention though that due to their increased surface area compared to a log the burn time would have to be lowered accordingly. They would also produce correspondingly greater heat levels during their short burn.

I think it could also be extended by bundling tinder items and turning them into fuel items, again with a low burn time, high temp increase. This would also mitigate the general uselessness of tinder items after obtaining fire starting level 3.

Interesting notion about altering burn-time with a greater heat level. Hadn't considered that aspect. I was simply multiplying up the value of 1 stick to 10 sticks - I wasn't actually comparing it to a wooden log.

However, if you were to compare it to other fuel, it would still be vastly inefficient and much less than logs (per kg).

Both 'reclaimed wood' and 'cedar logs' give about 2 hours of fire per kg. 'Fir logs' yield about 1.5 hours per kg.

A stick bundle using the simple multiplied value of a stick only comes in at less than 1 hour per kg. (80mins for 1.5kg)

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Line represents a thin fishing line, you would hardly bind anything together with it.
Why not just use materials at hand? I am talking about bark. Surely you would find some while collecting sticks. Maybe you would "Skin" one of the sticks of its bark and used that to bind them together?

Might as well have a recipe: 12 sticks would make this bundle. If you harvest it, you get 10 back. If you burn it, it burns like 10 pieces. All you would lose by making these are some extra pieces of firewood, in exchange for a wood piece that is easier to manipulate with. Cured gut is too expensive to use for this, fresh gut more so but still rather expensive, and line is too little. Seems to me the trade-off should be just in decreased fuel worth and time lost "crafting".

I guess another way to do it would be a cured gut which you would get back if you "dismantled" it, or even threw it straight on fire (because who in their right mind would throw a perfectly good binding material to burn with the firewood)

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20 minutes ago, Mroz4k said:

Why not just use materials at hand? I am talking about bark. Surely you would find some while collecting sticks. Maybe you would "Skin" one of the sticks of its bark and used that to bind them together?

Yeah, the idea was made with 'materials at hand'. Guts are far too valuable to really waste on it - especially if you have lots of spare bundles stored up for long spells of bad weather. Interesting idea with the 'sacrifice of 2 sticks' that could work - though not sure how logical that really sounds - binding sticks with other sticks. It might also lead to a fair amount of player confusion, people feeling cheated, or bug reports if 12 sticks only acted as or gave 10 when harvested. That said, it would certainly be acceptable option for me.

I mostly just figured on line because it is pretty cheap and is also easily craftable, not only to give an extra use for an already existing craftable item (line) but also because it is, in effect, only a fraction of the otherwise useful gut.

As for it being too thin and hardly able to bind anything, I would slightly disagree. While commercial, manufactured, fishing line is actually incredibly strong, the real question is how much does it truly represent manufactured fishing line anyway? I mean, you made it from guts on a workbench. If anything it is a makeshift twine that will suffice as a string-like item for fishing with, much like a shoelace might. At the moment, it equates to something less than half a gut - or a gut split lengthways. From this perspective it seemed like a pretty valid option (although if implemented, I did suggest increasing the number of lines from a gut when crafting - so as a) to keep the wastage cost down, and b) to make them more accessible to players)

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You underestimate the binding properties of bark, my friend. Bark is often very pliable, and when you rough it up a little and remove its outmost layer of crunchy, hard "skin", it turns into a pretty decent and strong binding material. I know I do it if I collect firewood and don't have paracord or some other cordage to use. Bundles of sticks have been traditionally bound by bark for centuries, probably even millennia. 
Afterall, what do you think baskets are mostly made out of? Bast, which is basically bark that has been somewhat processed down.

Argument could be made that most sticks found in TLD would be frozen stiff - but TLD is still somewhat easier than real life, we don't have wet firewood found in snow. I think this could be forgiven. It would be impossible with frozen stick, but possible in every part of the year with a "wet" stick by taking off the skin. Doesn't have to be pretty if it works, right?

Willow would be my go-to material. I assume that young twigs of either birch or maple would work well as well. Heck, scratch that - on my last hike I made a maple walking stick, and I know for a fact that the bark I scratched down from it could be used for cordage, I tested it and it was strong and pliable.

Cattails make for a decent cord as well.

(one more thing to add - bast has been used to create fishing nets for centuries. There you have, imagine that, willow bast fishing nets. It's a decent cordage.)

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