Daily Starvation Penalty?


Wasteland Watcher

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This should affect more that just carry weight. Endurance, sprint speed, weapon sway, and the ability to hit hard and fast (i.e. stabbing during a wolf encounter).

Problem is... how is this going to be implemented? Should there be a starvation affliction or should the character's abilities be reduced without a hint? Personally I think that there should be an affliction.

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If my past experiences with the game are still relevant, than I believe that once you've gone about a whole day without food, your endurance bar would slowly shrink until you feed yourself and had a good long sleep.  I never went hungry for more than a day, so I wouldn't know whether your endurance would continue to drain as you continued to starve or if it would only shrink to a certain level.

In any case, I think it would be good idea to attach some more penalties to starving yourself, as it would encourage people not exploit the healing system (i.e. starve all day and lose some condition, then eat 800 calories before you head-off to bed and heal back your condition).

IMHO, your daily calorie consumption and expenditure should be used to determine your encumbrance capacity, which should function as so:

  • (Calories Consumed) - (Calories Expended) = (Calorie Difference)

  • [(Calorie Difference) / 10,000] + 1 = (Encumbrance Modifier)

  • (Encumbrance Modifier) x 66 lbs = (New Modified Encumbrance)

  • Example:

    • Calories Consumed = 2,000

    • Calories Expended = 1,500

    • 2,000 - 1,500 = 500

    • (500 / 10,000) + 1 = 1.05

    • 1.05 x 66 = 69.3 lbs, 1.05 x 30 = 31.5 kgs

  • Note that this function would only be calculated after you have slept for at least 1 hour or rested for 2 hours.

  • In theory, the highest encumbrance boost you could receive would be an increase of 16.5 lbs (7.5 kgs), amounting to a total encumbrance limit of 82.5 lbs (37.5 kgs).  However, this would require you to not only consume an excessive 4,300 calories but also remain absolutely sedentary for 12-hours straight!

  • On the opposite side of the extreme, if you spend a whole day sawing-up firewood without eating a single morsel, your encumbrance would be sliced in half to only 33 lbs (15 kgs)!

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20 hours ago, Wasteland Watcher said:

If a male is eating less than 1000 calories a day, wouldn't that cause them to lose muscle mass?

On the opposite side of this is putting on weight.  The game should strike some balance where food is concerned.  Muscle mass and percent body fat should be computed.

Currently being on a rationed diet results in a character that is just as capable as someone being well fed.  Walking around with zero calories and having a wolf struggle will leave the character with no energy to fight.  This is easily overcome by gulping a pop or munching cattail stalks just before heading into wolf territory.  Those calories instantly give the character strength and energy.

Muscle mass should also be something the character can develop.  Often I have my character running around with 30 kg and burning all sorts of calories.  After months of this training the result is no change in the character's abilities.  It would be similar to RPG games and after leveling a character then increasing the strength.  Using hands covered in leather gauntlets for a wolf struggle might be a viable solution if that character has increased muscle.

Muscle and body fat act as energy reserve.  The character needs time to process the food and to convert it into muscle or body fat.  The calorie system needs further tuning and having a percent body fat and percent muscle mass seems like the right way. 

Increasing the daily calorie intake with exercise will increase muscle without exercise then gain fat.   Starving the character results in losing more muscle mass then body fat. 

There are bonuses that could be applied accordingly; speed, endurance, encumbrance, hunger and warmth bonus could all be affected by the character's body mass index.

If TLD is to span across the four seasons then the decisions a player makes for a long term strategy become more complex when having a system that, based on dietary and activity choices, tracks the character's body mass index.

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Current exploit, aside of making a complete joke of whole hunger feature, is completely unrealistic.

There is no way to survive on 500 cal a day irl, unless youre a Hollywood starlet or one of those skeletal models, with minimal physical activity involved. And even then youd be prone to whole host of health problems and quite possible eventual hospitalization, involving IV feeding. And in case of tLD were talking about severe cold conditions, that increase calorie requirements by 10-15% and moderate to severe physical activities. Without proper 2000+ cal a day player should starve to death on this ridiculous diet in matter of couple weeks.

Ive been tying with idea of whole hunger feature reworking for a while.

So, total cal pool is increased to 30000 cal and its divided into 5 equal parts(they could be color-coded and simply come one after another, but im not sure how it would work with new crappy UI), ranging from starvation to being overfed. With optimal being level 4, well-fed. Reaching 0 cal results in player death. Lvl 1 and 2 also introduce really slow health drain.

Various levels can have various effects. Like not eating enough and passing from lvl4 to lvl3 and then lvl2 and lvl1, would apply, among others, progressively worsening "Weakness" effect, that negatively effects most of player stats, like weight, speed, tiredness loss, etc. While initially it effect would be fairly negligent, then longer player goes without sufficient amount food(or none at all), worse it becomes.

There are others, like "Nausea", "Headache", "Vertigo", "Blackouts", etc.

Plus, on top of that, some changes to food consumption. First player can consume only up to 1000 cal at any given time without penalties. That limit is slowly decreases, slower for meat, as it is "heavy" food. 3 hours for everything but meat and 5 hours for meat. Eating above 1000 cal decrease calorie absorption by progressive 5% for each 100 cal(1100 cal will be worth 1095, 1200 will be worth 1190, 1300 will eb worth 1285, etc). Also, each level of hunger below lvl4, well-fed, decrease calorie consumption by 20%.

Reason for those is simple. First, body can absorb only so much nutrients in one go. If player prefers to eat a lot in one go once a day, most of it should be wasted, as body is incapable to absorb it all. Maybe some adaptation mechanic, that reduces and eventually removes this penalty after a while, as player adopted to such way of eating. But such way of eating should be regular for prolonged period of time and breaking pattern would slowly bring penalties back. If player is starving ,then body ability to absorb nutrients takes a huge hit. There is a reason why famine victims are often fed thru IV for prolonged amount of time, as their digestive system is completely ruined.

Lvl5, over-fed, would be a bit different animal. As it would introduce additional gauge - fat. This gauge is hardest to fill, as it induces progressive calories absorption penalties, from 10% to 50% closer to being full. Fat effects could range from positive to negative,including warmth, speed, tiredness, recovery and hunger loss.

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I feel that it doesn't need to be more complicated than the Cabin Fever affliction calculations.  Instead of being keyed off of the amount of time spent indoors over a period of days, it would be keyed off of the amount eaten over a period of days.  Say, if you only ate 500 calories a day or less, that would be akin to staying indoors all day for Cabin Fever.  Even if you pack away a bear steak on the fifth day, if you had barely eaten on days one through four, your overall consumption for that period can still put you in danger.

A Starvation Warning ("Weakening" or similar) percentage begins climbing, falling with food eaten, until you either squelch it with food - or the Starvation affliction begins at 100%.  Starvation incurs a serious Fatigue loss multiplier, that lasts until you fill your stomach meter completely and sleep for so many hours.  The Fatigue mechanic has already built in everything that hunger should affect (carry weight, wolf struggle results, sprint bar, climbing), so there's no need for new or additional systems.

Essentially it's an expansion of what's already in place (as long-term starvation already incurs a minor fatigue loss) - just a bit more dramatic, implemented as an affliction to notify the user, and presenting a risk that doesn't vanish by nibbling on crumbs.

But that's my take. There are some great ideas and discussion in this thread!

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you should also not recoup health if you are in a starving state. Can maybe make a body weight and once you start dropping weight you go into a starving state and progressively get less energy, slow health regeneration or non at all if you keep starving yourself.. 

would be a good way to balance the game and make it harder, or they can just balance it with more zombie wolves like they usually do.. 

 

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2 hours ago, dbldrew said:

you should also not recoup health if you are in a starving state. Can maybe make a body weight and once you start dropping weight you go into a starving state and progressively get less energy, slow health regeneration or non at all if you keep starving yourself.. 

 

This is a good idea I'd like to see implemented

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3 minutes ago, Travell boots said:

After few days you get not enough food you will get a "yellow plus symbol" in the game and if you take a look into the character satus there is the text:

muscle wasting because of malnutrition:

- effect: you will loose 10 % of healthy permanently so long you are ill

- efect: you can carry 25 % not so much stuff so long you are ill

treatement:

- over 5 days you will never decrease under 1000 calories

I like this idea, not just for its simplicity, but because it effectively uses an already existing mechanic.

However, I would propose a bit of an alteration.. in that after around 60 hours spent doing actions while at 0 calories, the affliction chance sets in - i.e. all those things players typically abuse the calorie system for - waiting for an empty stomach before chopping limbs or harvesting carcasses etc. I find the mechanic abuse of eating once a day right before sleep and then starving all day to be not only unnatural but it feels like a cheat against the game's mechanics.

If at any stage during this 60 hours (approx 4 days - assuming most people eat just once per day to ensure approx 10 hours of sleep - leaving 14 hungry hours per day) the player completely fills their stomach (max calories) then the counter is simply reset and the affliction risk can be avoided for another 4 days.

The percentage chance of this affliction rises at a rate of about 4% per hour while your calories count is at 0, warning you of the affliction. Again this can be cancelled by eating until completely full. (this gives a further day and a half before hitting 100%)

If the percentage risk kicks in and the player does in fact get the malnutrion condition, then the negative effects kick in.

- a 10% drop to max condition (much like the 'red' reduction to max stamina due to clothing)

- a 10% drop to max carry weight (personally, I think 25% would be a bit too extreme - especially as most of this limit is used by essential items and clothing)

The 10% reduction is more of an annoyance than an activity killer. A player could still go about daily life with the condition, at reduced effectiveness. Perhaps they still need to actually find a better food source (a couple of rabbits won't hardly cure it) - maybe they are out of arrows/need to find a fishing hut/hit several rabbit areas, maybe there's a blizzard that has lasted for a few days...

I also think your 'treatment' is rather harsh. I think simply surviving 48 hours while never once dropping to 0 calories would be sufficient to clear the condition.

 

I wouldn't want to see the game simply revolving around affliction removals (cabin fever, hypothermia, malnutrition or combinations thereof..) but rather have it as something that can still be lived with but at an avoidable penalty cost. It would also go a little way towards breaking the gameplay hack of eating once per day right before sleep, by at least forcing the player to eat properly once every few days in order to avoid it.

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1 hour ago, Travell boots said:

I can´t unterstand. Please can you explain me what you want to tell us with this sentence: The game is not a simulation!"

its not real life. its a game, therefore things wont always work as you expect to

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15 minutes ago, Travell boots said:

I didn´t say that the game is real life. I just say that hinterland still added features in the game that exist also in real life like for example frostbite.

And i will never expect that things always work as i will expect. ;)

Can i ask you something? I know people are fascinated that they can told me what they think about me: You have written: "therefore things wont always work as you expect to"

 

Maybe i can ask you you delete this comment about me and we can have a very friendly discuss by personal message? Ich will not be unfriendly. And i will not demand you. It is just because i feel a little bad sad if we all here post our opinions about other members instead we discuss about the theme. So i will also promise i "Edit" my post here and will delete every stuff after the word "frostbite". Just a friendly question. Can you do this please?

no I wont delete my posts and good luck with the chat. all i recommend is think (twice) before you post.

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13 minutes ago, nicko said:

its not real life. its a game, therefore things wont always work as you expect to

This is perhaps one of the poorest common rebuttals. As it's a game not a simulation, perhaps pink snow would be ok?

I think everyone is well aware it is a 'game' and not a perfect simulation of life or survival. However, the more things that behave in a somewhat realistic fashion, the easier it is to learn, play, and immerse yourself within the game environment.

Suggestions for added realism and common sense have constantly been added and considered - for example the expanded clothing system to allow for layering clothing. It is a common sense thing any rational human player do, and it sets it apart from other games. I can't think of any other game that allows you to simultaneously wear more than one item on any given body part.

The current eating/starving mechanic is currently somewhat flawed and exploitable for extended survival. It is one of the most influential 'tricks' that a new player must learn to exploit to change from short term survival to long term survival. It is an unnatural exploit. Eating before bed - as opposed too having a hearty breakfast/lunch is completely opposite to common knowledge and a healthier more productive lifestyle.

While new players can quickly learn for themselves that they need to ration things like matches in order to survive long term, food and starving is completely counter intuitive. Hence this discussion.

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8 minutes ago, Miniwizard said:

This is perhaps one of the poorest common rebuttals. As it's a game not a simulation, perhaps pink snow would be ok?

I think everyone is well aware it is a 'game' and not a perfect simulation of life or survival. However, the more things that behave in a somewhat realistic fashion, the easier it is to learn, play, and immerse yourself within the game environment.

Suggestions for added realism and common sense have constantly been added and considered - for example the expanded clothing system to allow for layering clothing. It is a common sense thing any rational human player do, and it sets it apart from other games. I can't think of any other game that allows you to simultaneously wear more than one item on any given body part.

The current eating/starving mechanic is currently somewhat flawed and exploitable for extended survival. It is one of the most influential 'tricks' that a new player must learn to exploit to change from short term survival to long term survival. It is an unnatural exploit. Eating before bed - as opposed too having a hearty breakfast/lunch is completely opposite to common knowledge and a healthier more productive lifestyle.

While new players can quickly learn for themselves that they need to ration things like matches in order to survive long term, food and starving is completely counter intuitive. Hence this discussion.

huh? then we get gamers like you that expect every single detail down to the point in real life that it just is not possible! ahhhhhh - AND in the end was it worth it?

In the end I think Hinterland will.

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8 minutes ago, nicko said:

huh? then we get gamers like you that expect every single detail down to the point in real life that it just is not possible! ahhhhhh

I don't by any stretch of the imagination expect every detail to simulate real life. However, surely you must admit that the current system is 'exploitable' in a highly unrealistic and counter-inuitive fashion.

I also don't want to see the game bogged down with afflictions and injuries, allowing players to actually involve themselves within the game world rather than constantly managing their own person. However, the current system for calorie control - performing the majority of actions while starving, yet sleeping while fully sated boggles the mind somewhat.

The more that any game behaves in an expected and realistic way, the more immersive and natural it feels, allowing the player to do things more instinvtively and enjoy the gameplay rather than making a point of remembering to do something unnatural simply to combat built in game mechanics.

 

I would for instance add to this that another rather intuitive trick a player can learn, is to light a torch before using it to light a fire. This is an intelligent, realistic and common sense way to beat game mechanics of the firestarting RNG.

Learning to eat just once a day right before bed, is most certainly not an intuitive practice.

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who knows but reading your post you have a gripe with:

However, the current system for calorie control - performing the majority of actions while starving, yet sleeping while fully sated boggles the mind somewhat.

You can eat any time? of course you don't eat when your are asleep. sleep to long? maybe die.

 

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Being a powerlifter with quite a bit of experience I would like to weigh in on this one.

On 6/16/2017 at 10:03 PM, Farrgin Ice Hole said:

Muscle mass should also be something the character can develop.  Often I have my character running around with 30 kg and burning all sorts of calories.  After months of this training the result is no change in the character's abilities.

Yes, and no. I can tell you lifting very heavy weight will burn calories, as will swinging a hatchet to collect wood, but this game calculates things at quite an unrealistic rate.

Take for example breaking down a limb of a tree, it burns far more calories than a mile run. Totally unrealistic, as heart rate judges calorie burn far more than expenditure of muscle glycogen stores, but it seems like this might be the mechanic through which they reclaim ground on calories (?) maybe.

I have tried not using cardio to lose weight and only doing anaerobic exercise. Doesn't work too well.

On 6/17/2017 at 11:46 AM, Dirmagnos said:

Current exploit, aside of making a complete joke of whole hunger feature, is completely unrealistic.

Indeed, it is.

People need to have Hinterlands hear this because the fact is, caloric intake matters a ton. Most people do not understand that even in a 10% calorie deficit, you will see an energy drop. I won't go into detail, but weight that is normally easy in a triple or a 3x6 becomes maddeningly slow on the last rep instead of fast and strong, and that's just a 10% drop in energy.

You should take longer to do anything that has to do with breaking down, field dressing, fishing etc.

On 6/17/2017 at 11:46 AM, Dirmagnos said:

First, body can absorb only so much nutrients in one go

That is actually a well-debunked myth. In fact, some people eat only once a day, and 3,000 kcal in a single sitting (some dummies call this a "warrior diet"), while difficult to pack away, will be absorbed. I think it's dumb because you become bloated and uncomfortable, people that do this think it's more "natural" (cavemen did this, according to them lol).

Your body will always absorb as many calories as you give it and and store what is not used. That is why we have an obesity problem, we have a tendency toward gorging because of food scarcity in the wild and our natural instincts to be greedy overtake many people.

With micronutrients it is a bit different (the neon urine you see after taking a vitamin is the excess you did not need), but with calories I can assure you, every rigorously controlled clinical trial held in wards testing this, the time at which you eat, and the composition of macronutrients have all been tested and proven, that it is simply CICO, and what you eat, is what you keep.

Now if you're referring to a change *after* hitting starvation, that would apply, but not because your body is incapable, it is simply that you are not used to having something in your stomach in general. This happened when allied soldiers tried to feed Holocaust survivors their rations, they would simply upchuck it.

On 6/17/2017 at 11:46 AM, Dirmagnos said:

Without proper 2000+ cal a day player should starve to death on this ridiculous diet in matter of couple weeks.

This is so true it hurts. I remember thinking to myself about the fact that to stay warm, many researches in the arctic took up to 7,000-10,000 kcal a day! Mostly in sugar. While it is colder up there, it's still damn cold in TLD and that should matter more. I don't think we should have a macronutrient requirement as this would make the game not fun and way too tedious.

But you are right, to stay warm we would need way more.

On 6/16/2017 at 10:03 PM, Farrgin Ice Hole said:

If TLD is to span across the four seasons

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the devs say TLD would always be winter?

On 6/16/2017 at 0:11 AM, Wasteland Watcher said:

If a male is eating less than 1000 calories a day, wouldn't that cause them to lose muscle mass?

Doing anaerobic activity and eating enough protein will slow this process, even on a very low calorie diet. This has been proven before. Even in personal experience I can tell you on 1500 kcal a day while doing vigorous exercise and very heavy weights I lost some, but not much muscle mass.

That being said, we would have to be very specific about our character, and I think that would be hard to do, what kind of exercise should we count as muscle-preserving and which one is most effective? Breaking down crates by hand? Chopping a limb? Running uphill?

If we get this nitty-gritty, can I choose to do pushups for an hour to help but burn calories in exchange? Sit-ups? It can get quite complicated and tedious. These questions would be important to answer, as far as it regards carry weight and strength in terms of food intake.

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20 minutes ago, nicko said:

who knows but reading your post you have a gripe with:

However, the current system for calorie control - performing the majority of actions while starving, yet sleeping while fully sated boggles the mind somewhat.

You can eat any time? of course you don't eat when your are asleep. sleep to long? maybe die.

 

What is also more farcicle, is that while you can chop up a large limb lying outside in the snow whilst at zero calories, you cannot, in the warmth and comfort of your shelter read a book. "You are too hungry to read"

Now, I am not advocating that all activities should require you to have enough calories - they could perhaps take longer for the same result. Or, better yet, adapt the calorie system - and throw in a few avoidable afflictions that encourage a more realistic diet routine.

Yes, of course the player is free to eat at any time. I feel you are being deliberately pedantic here. However, as anyone will tell you - aiming for long term survival, perhaps living off the meagre calorie intake of cooked rabbits for instance, you need to exploit the current mechanics by only eating once a day - and just enough to cover your sleep in order to regain the small amount of condition that the starving cost you during the day/evening. The current mechanics encourage this unnatural and unrealistic behaviour.

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16 minutes ago, Miniwizard said:

The current mechanics encourage this unnatural and unrealistic behaviour.

They do, but I personally do not follow them. I don't like abusing mechanics like this, and while I know implementing a more realistic starvation affliction like @Dirmagnos suggested is a solid solution that would force people not to exploit this, we also have to remember that Hinterland would have to take a lot of time and work to do this, and that might not be worth it to them.

I just choose not to participate and maintain higher calories daily. Other players that feel as we do should and probably do, do the same.

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Les Stroud and all the other survivalists complain about it all the time and they are doing a week or two at a time with preparation for not eating much. However you can see after a few days of little to no calories they start to slow down, can't think straight, more easily injure themselves etc. But I agree it should be a rolling time line of days so you can't just fill up at the end of the limit on a big bear steak or two, but you have to keep a steady diet going. a quick fill could give you a short term boost like a eppipens do in the game but with the caveat that you gotta rest right after.

 

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7 hours ago, Honor said:

Being a powerlifter with quite a bit of experience I would like to weigh in on this one.

Yes, and no. I can tell you lifting very heavy weight will burn calories, as will swinging a hatchet to collect wood, but this game calculates things at quite an unrealistic rate.

Take for example breaking down a limb of a tree, it burns far more calories than a mile run. Totally unrealistic, as heart rate judges calorie burn far more than expenditure of muscle glycogen stores, but it seems like this might be the mechanic through which they reclaim ground on calories (?) maybe.

I have tried not using cardio to lose weight and only doing anaerobic exercise. Doesn't work too well.

Indeed, it is.

People need to have Hinterlands hear this because the fact is, caloric intake matters a ton. Most people do not understand that even in a 10% calorie deficit, you will see an energy drop. I won't go into detail, but weight that is normally easy in a triple or a 3x6 becomes maddeningly slow on the last rep instead of fast and strong, and that's just a 10% drop in energy.

You should take longer to do anything that has to do with breaking down, field dressing, fishing etc.

That is actually a well-debunked myth. In fact, some people eat only once a day, and 3,000 kcal in a single sitting (some dummies call this a "warrior diet"), while difficult to pack away, will be absorbed. I think it's dumb because you become bloated and uncomfortable, people that do this think it's more "natural" (cavemen did this, according to them lol).

Your body will always absorb as many calories as you give it and and store what is not used. That is why we have an obesity problem, we have a tendency toward gorging because of food scarcity in the wild and our natural instincts to be greedy overtake many people.

With micronutrients it is a bit different (the neon urine you see after taking a vitamin is the excess you did not need), but with calories I can assure you, every rigorously controlled clinical trial held in wards testing this, the time at which you eat, and the composition of macronutrients have all been tested and proven, that it is simply CICO, and what you eat, is what you keep.

Now if you're referring to a change *after* hitting starvation, that would apply, but not because your body is incapable, it is simply that you are not used to having something in your stomach in general. This happened when allied soldiers tried to feed Holocaust survivors their rations, they would simply upchuck it.

This is so true it hurts. I remember thinking to myself about the fact that to stay warm, many researches in the arctic took up to 7,000-10,000 kcal a day! Mostly in sugar. While it is colder up there, it's still damn cold in TLD and that should matter more. I don't think we should have a macronutrient requirement as this would make the game not fun and way too tedious.

But you are right, to stay warm we would need way more.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the devs say TLD would always be winter?

Doing anaerobic activity and eating enough protein will slow this process, even on a very low calorie diet. This has been proven before. Even in personal experience I can tell you on 1500 kcal a day while doing vigorous exercise and very heavy weights I lost some, but not much muscle mass.

That being said, we would have to be very specific about our character, and I think that would be hard to do, what kind of exercise should we count as muscle-preserving and which one is most effective? Breaking down crates by hand? Chopping a limb? Running uphill?

If we get this nitty-gritty, can I choose to do pushups for an hour to help but burn calories in exchange? Sit-ups? It can get quite complicated and tedious. These questions would be important to answer, as far as it regards carry weight and strength in terms of food intake.

Thank you very much for sharing this info -- love it! It's based on nutritional health (and thus science) and your personal experience. These are the best kinds of comments imho because they are based on actual facts (as opposed to an opinion formulated otherwise) :)
Really, really excellent food for thought!

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On 6/22/2017 at 5:35 PM, Honor said:

Now if you're referring to a change *after* hitting starvation, that would apply, but not because your body is incapable, it is simply that you are not used to having something in your stomach in general.

This is what i was referring to. Poor wording and your points are more accurate.

In modern world we are generally used to eat 3 meals a day, regularly, or something similar. At least every day. So you person is used to specific way of eating, then his body will adapt to it. Stomach will expand, additional acids get generated, etc.

In old times, when food was scarce and far between, people tend to go for long periods on little amounts of food and then just eat themselves full in amounts that would be considered catastrophic by modern standards. And be ok with it. Because they were used to it,

Wolves are a prime example of it. They can go for weeks with little to no food, but when they get a kill(or anything to eat, really), they will feast. Eating to the point that they cant walk, rest and eat again, till all the food is gone.

On 6/22/2017 at 5:35 PM, Honor said:

Mostly in sugar.

Butter, BUTTER, a kingdom for a stick of butter.

Those guys walk for 10-12 hours a day, fully clothed and drag a 200 kg sled behind them. In extreme cold.

On 6/22/2017 at 5:35 PM, Honor said:

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the devs say TLD would always be winter?

There have been talks about seasons, possible as DLC or even in next game, if this one does well. Nothing have been set in stone yet.

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On 6/22/2017 at 5:44 PM, Wasteland Watcher said:

Thank you very much for sharing this info -- love it! It's based on nutritional health (and thus science) and your personal experience. These are the best kinds of comments imho because they are based on actual facts (as opposed to an opinion formulated otherwise) :)
Really, really excellent food for thought!

Thank you. I honestly think the starvation affliction needs to be a thing, and they way @Dirmagnos introduces it is grounded in reality and makes sense. We have all gotten the dreaded hunger headache and eventual nausea if we don't eat.

Being a "lunk" as some people would call it has its' uses.

23 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

Butter, BUTTER, a kingdom for a stick of butter.

Those guys walk for 10-12 hours a day, fully clothed and drag a 200 kg sled behind them. In extreme cold.

As far as I recall, my former professor, Douglas Kowalewski, showed footage of him in the arctic and talked about their diets-roughly 8-10,000 calories a day and tons of fat and sugar. Carbohydrates are what really heat you up quickly. Try it out sometime, have a ton of sugar and go out into the cold, you'll notice you retain heat much better.

These guys were literally opening straight from the factory candy bar cases with their knives and shoveling handfuls into their backpacks (only in my wildest fantasies do I get to do that). They had the biggest pig out sessions, but it was so cold he barely gained a pound or two by the time he came back. It was mind boggling. It's why I love interloper, the calorie requirements are very high-much more realistic for the temperature setting.

But after you said you liked Stalker I tried it and I have to say, the rifle is so much fun and having a higher number of less dangerous wolves presents its own problems, so I can see why so many find it fun.

23 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

There have been talks about seasons, possible as DLC or even in next game, if this one does well. Nothing have been set in stone yet.

That would be amazing. I would definitely play the seasoned version quite a bit.

I wonder what would happen to the fishing huts though, I am not personally experienced with the design of those.

But more to your points @Dirmagnos we honestly should have at least *some* meat requirement if we aren't eating enough in general, the character(s) should become weaker. There's no way I can maintain myself without that. We should be forced to have some venison or fish.

Come to think of it, we don't have rabbit starvation either. Their meat does not have enough fat to support hormone production and digestion. This whole new age of rabbit exploiting, as I call it, should be curbed with something like that. There are some trappers that have fallen victim to this in the real world.

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1 hour ago, Honor said:

I wonder what would happen to the fishing huts though, I am not personally experienced with the design of those.

Huts should be either towed to the shore, disassembled and towed or their content partially sink and partially break apart as ice melts(rendering them into scrap regardless).

1 hour ago, Honor said:

But more to your points @Dirmagnos we honestly should have at least *some* meat requirement if we aren't eating enough in general, the character(s) should become weaker. There's no way I can maintain myself without that. We should be forced to have some venison or fish.

Thats why i wrote what i wrote previously. Everything else could be build upon it. As long as it wont go 2 deep into micromanagement, as this is extremely hard to implement that wouldnt feel as complete chore. Last time this game needs is calorie diaries.

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