Tuning to aggressive?

[Mike in GA]

I've been playing for about 2-3 months.  Long time gamer, lets just say PONG.   I have to say this is the best video that I may have ever played in my life. I enjoyed Vanilla WoW and the battlegrounds where I got my tail handed to me regularly. Was very disappointed to see the game get easier, that Monkey pressing keys = winning, rather than having to work at winning. 

 

All that is to say when I started v.386 had been in play and I found that sweet spot for me on Voyager. I loved that I had to really think and not just run up and pet the wolves. Like using line of sight, creeping about behind the natural terrain. I had to plan where to go and when.  I tried stalker and loper, too much for me, which is why I'm assuming the variant difficulties even came about.  All could enjoy what the same game, just tuned differently.  I died numerous times starting out, read/lurked in these forums and on steam forums, learned, watched videos, etc.  And before the patch had made a run of 79 days before I ran around naked in ML so I could save that journal.  I think I could have easily made 100 and possibly 200 days.

During that run I was attacked by wolves I think 8 times.  I was getting the hang of the blizzards, wolves, crafted all the clothing (stopped with the wolf jacket with about 10 hours left because the wipe was coming). I was subsisting on mostly fish from ML. Fishing was almost level 5, as was cooking. Occasionally, would shoot a deer for the skin. I had made a run to FM and crafted 16 arrowheads and was curing the wood for shafts.  Had snares set for the rabbits. All was good and balanced it seemed to me.  It wasn't easy mode. I fell into the water via thin ice and almost froze coming back from FM and PV I think to CH? Had 9% condition and lived.

I think I checked my laptop game about a dozen times, just starting random games and looting, started a loper in TWM for good measure. And when the update dropped I was beyond psyched.  As a grown man, I blocked time off to start this amazing game.  I started again on Voyager in ML.  Searched almost the entire map and was really shocked about several things. The weather was much worse, the food was much more scarce as was the clothing.  I don't think I ever found a jacket or vest.  The wolves were off the chain, several packs in lots of places they weren't before. Where the wolves had been I found packs of mostly 3, some duos.  During that first run I was attacked 4 times in 3 days, still using line of sight and the new mechanic of throwing.  The wolf walked over the top of the flare I threw and ate my face. Stabbed it and when I was getting up the second one jumped me and into the long dark I went.

I started several runs thinking my RNG was screwing me and for the sake of stats I would start well in ML. Hasn't happened yet as of about 5 runs. Started in CH, wolves, which were numerous to me before were everywhere.  I counted 6 yesterday between Quonset and the islands.

I am at a loss as to what this means, other than the tuning has been ramped up? But why? If people felt Voyager was too easy, wouldn't they move to Stalker? And progress from Stalker to Loper? I've been posting this on Steam and decided to come here in the hopes that Dev team might see this. 

In those 8 attacks pre-update I would lose some condition, but never more than 25%, I think more on the order of 10%.  On that first run where I died I would estimate I lost about 40-50% condition, along with clothing destroyed and 5 afflictions from the first fight alone.  Aren't those Stalker/Loper stats for fights?

I found myself waiting all day for blizzards to pass so I could go fish as I had no gun/bow. When I went to move to the ice huts, packs of 3 wolves on the ice. I counted up to 5 on the lake at one time.  And if this is the "Best beginning area" I hate to say a lot of the newer players from PS4 are going to be in for a hard time.

So, I am struggling to play now as the game is having a really grindy feeling to it that drove me away from WoW and games like that. I understand this is EA and that things change, but IMO, things got tuned to far.  I can deal with the weather changes. I actually am liking the UI and understand the HUD and sun/moon time telling as it relates to the "quiet apocalypse" and really enjoy what appears to be all the graphics for items. Visual and Audio sounds are really good and add a lot of depth to the game. But I'm waking up in game at night to drink after 100% before sleeping or I lose condition.  I'm eating several pounds of food daily and still starving. I'm dropping weight like crazy and moving at less than 40 pounds.  I just started another ML run, call me Don Quixote tilting at windmills, and burned almost 900 calories without running to search the fishing huts and cabins to get 3 cans of food, one pack of matches, a fishing tackle and no clothes at all. If I did run I have the running badge, allegedly 25% less calories running. Again on Voyager.  If I wanted stalker/loper I would change it myself. 

Sorry so long, but I want to be clear in explaining/describing then and now.

All that to ask "was this intentional?"

[chuckie]

Playing loper. No harder than before. Successfully avoid all fights by now dropping decoys. Sometimes wolfs go in pairs but more often I don't meet any were I used to. Silent bears become  a huge surprise.

[Quarbani 79]

I've been a stalker player for ages now and had a great run going before the update. Then I started a new game and it was brutal! Survived 8 days and felt like I'd gone through hell and back. 

I cant decide if it's got harder or if I'd forgotten how hard the start of the game was because obviously after surviving for a couple of hundred days and maxing all skills and gear it becomes easy. 

[chuckie]

4 minutes ago, Quarbani 79 said:

I'd forgotten how hard the start of the game was because obviously after surviving for a couple of hundred days and maxing all skills and gear it becomes easy. 

Get in shape on loper, than enjoy yourself on stalker )

[shade_grey]

It's the meat. Any meat on you will lure wolves from a certain radius towards you. I once entered crumbling highway carrying two cooked venison steaks and lured all of the wolves in the entire crumbling highway area to me. Luckily, there was a fallen tree nearby that I managed to climb and shoot the wolves from.

This effect also happens when carrying raw guts, cured guts seem to have no effect, but with raw guts, the luring effect seems to have a much smaller radius than cooked meat.

I don't know what Hinterland was going for but to me it looks like there was a mistake with the tuning. It's also very unintuitive. Smell isn't a form of radiation. It's chemicals suspended in a fluid, dispersed by brownian motion. It's why smell dependent animals have to follow a scent trail instead of following the object that the smell originates from. That's because the smell doesn't radiate from the object, chemical particles are released by the object. Most of those chemicals disperse but some linger in the air or stick to surfaces and that's the scent trail that smell dependent animals follow.

[Samsonguy920]

4 hours ago, shade_grey said:

It's the meat. Any meat on you will lure wolves from a certain radius towards you. I once entered crumbling highway carrying two cooked venison steaks and lured all of the wolves in the entire crumbling highway area to me. Luckily, there was a fallen tree nearby that I managed to climb and shoot the wolves from.

This effect also happens when carrying raw guts, cured guts seem to have no effect, but with raw guts, the luring effect seems to have a much smaller radius than cooked meat.

I don't know what Hinterland was going for but to me it looks like there was a mistake with the tuning. It's also very unintuitive. Smell isn't a form of radiation. It's chemicals suspended in a fluid, dispersed by brownian motion. It's why smell dependent animals have to follow a scent trail instead of following the object that the smell originates from. That's because the smell doesn't radiate from the object, chemical particles are released by the object. Most of those chemicals disperse but some linger in the air or stick to surfaces and that's the scent trail that smell dependent animals follow.

Meat and guts are definitely a factor, but on Voyageur it is really feeling like the wolf population got tripled.  It is honestly feeling like they are actually spawning everywhere they are likely to spawn now, as opposed to having a chance of doing so.

It's kept me from getting to certain areas and making Voyageur honestly feel like Interloper. This really needs to get looked at.

[continuity]

I've only started up one Voyager game in 423 but the loot and wolf spawns seem about the same to me. certainly MUCH more forgiving than stalker.  On ML alone I found 3 hatchets, 3 knives, 3 prybars, a bow, 3 arrows, 6 lanterns, 5 jerry cans, about 8 small fuel cans, about 6 whet stones, about 6 can openers, tonnes of food (including a food prepper cache), a rifle and a decent amount of ammo (about 25 maybe) lots of clothes including 2 military coats and one expedition coat, plus a few sets of most everything else.

So about 4-5 times as much loot as I would expect in stalker, there are also very few wolves compared to stalker.

Normally I play on stalker but frankly the wolves are just beyond a joke on stalker, so i'm probably sticking to voyager for the time being despite preferring the loot and weather differences on stalker. 

About the wolves on the lake... this has always been a pack spawn point, I don't know how you haven't come across them before, the lake would be quite dangerous if it wasn't for the fact that you have a clear line of sight across most of it to spot the wolves.  If they're there, either kill them or avoid them.  

[Greenglades]

The weather seems to affect your overall condition a lot more in all modes. Wolves tend to find you now once close enough without needing line of sight with scent mechanic. In the early Interloper game, it is much less forgiving - one mistake can be the end. I got hypothermia and attacked by a wolf early in Stalker mode and could bounce back from 23% health, not so much with Interloper.

[Wasteland Watcher]

5 hours ago, Samsonguy920 said:

Meat and guts are definitely a factor, but on Voyageur it is really feeling like the wolf population got tripled.  It is honestly feeling like they are actually spawning everywhere they are likely to spawn now, as opposed to having a chance of doing so.

It's kept me from getting to certain areas and making Voyageur honestly feel like Interloper. This really needs to get looked at.

I have no idea how long you have been playing TLD. I started in Nov 2015 and from about June 2016 til last month I took a break.
When I started up again last month the wolf population seemed to have been drastically reduced from what I experienced back in June 2016 and prior where (in Voyageur) I'd run into wolves so often outside Camp Office that after experimenting by living in many different places (Logging Camp, Forestry Outlook, various cabins, I deemed the Camp Office as one of the most dangerous places to live in Mystery Lake.

With Faithful Cartographer's release I'm seeing the wolves returned to a state I remember.. I don't think Voyageur feels like Interloper at all. When I started back up last month I felt that Voyageur had gotten much easier. Now it feels "balanced" again (for lack of a better term).

[Dirmagnos]

11 hours ago, Wasteland Watcher said:

I deemed the Camp Office as one of the most dangerous places to live in Mystery Lake.

In my current game i spent 40 days at Camp Office. Stalker. I havent seen a single wolf in vicinity of it, unless they followed me there. Or were attracted by smell.

[Wasteland Watcher]

5 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

In my current game i spent 40 days at Camp Office. Stalker. I havent seen a single wolf in vicinity of it, unless they followed me there. Or were attracted by smell.

Prior June 2016 sometimes when I left the from the front door of Camp Office (in Voyageur) I'd see a wolf walking down from the large hill across from the front door.

Leaving from the back door and walking straight out to the trees where you can gather sticks, sometimes there would be a wolf there to surprise you just and you crested the incline.

Sometimes walking out the back door and following the Lake Trail I'd run into a wolf nearby the T-intersection where you can turn to go to Dave's Cave (I mean Dave's Quiet Place).  Sometimes returning to Camp Office from Dave's Cave there would be a wolf on Lake Trail blocking my path back to Camp Office.

You know that rocky outcropping across and to the left of front door of Camp Office near the train tracks that on the way to the nearby 'rabbit grove?'  I'd bump into a wolf there sometimes.

I'm now seeing them sometimes blocking the way to the rabbit grove but haven't bumped into any right after leaving Camp Office.
None encountered on the Lake Trail lately. But I have seem some on the tracks between the near-Camp-Office-stick-gathering-woods and the place-formerly-known-as-Tunnel-Collapse.

So...in Voyageur wolf population is back up, but still not at prior-June-2016 levels.

[Mike in GA]

I appreciate the replies and history as I've only been playing after v.386 was implemented. I am a firm believer in perspective to clarify the present, and hearing about 2016 does fill that perspective in for me.

 From lurking about the forums here and on Steam, it looks as if people are saying Loper is about the same or easier, very possibly luck with RNG. Stalker is allegedly much more wolf driven and Voyager is more challenging than .386. 

My point wasn't so much just more wolves. Its really just more of all the things that are making the game more challenging.  That it appeared the wolves did more damage than Pre-FC. I commented on a post about food on Steam that it felt like I was eating a lot more food now. My latest journal says i'm eating like 3000 calories a day. Drinking closer to a gallon of water per day. I'm not running, although that's the only badge I have at this point. Blizzards daily, sometimes all day and I'm on day 7 Voy again. Cabin fever is going to be a killer if my runs last long enough.

Very grindy feeling. Again I ask if these things are true and not my perception, then what is the rationale? If I was bored on the previous level of difficult, there were 2 other increasingly difficult levels ahead. 

As always I must say again this is one of the best games that I have ever played.

Finally killed some bunnies.  I need those gloves!!! And thanks again for the perspective!

 

[Wasteland Watcher]

@Mike in GA glad you appreciate the historical information

 If you're using a mouse for wolf attacks, are you using both hands? It helps a lot. 

 If you're eating 3000 cal a day, you ought to be getting fat  

 I eat 810 cal a day and that's it. Will continue doing so until there are penalties for it.  I drink a lot of water all day long though

 And I should note that I only am in voyageur

[Dirmagnos]

On 6/14/2017 at 5:47 AM, Mike in GA said:

Blizzards daily, sometimes all day and I'm on day 7 Voy again.

Im playing only Stalker(i love that wolves in Interloper are tougher but there is less of them, it would fit nicely into Stalker, instead of current crap with them being weak as shit but everywhere) and in every game i started after update first 7-10 days are blizzards like non-stop, 2 out of 3 days had severe long blizzards. After that things calm down and now there is same situation, but with clear days. Far more than before.

Few updates back amount of clear days was far lower, more like once a week. Now its like every third(if not second) day.

[continuity]

On 6/14/2017 at 3:47 AM, Mike in GA said:

Very grindy feeling. Again I ask if these things are true and not my perception, then what is the rationale? If I was bored on the previous level of difficult, there were 2 other increasingly difficult levels ahead. 

My voyageur game is at 60 days now, here are some stats from my journal:

60 days (50ML, 3CH, 2DP, 2FM)

2858 Calories average

27 wolf encounters (12 struggles)

136kg meat consumed

39 cans opened

20 blizzards

The wolf encounters is way up on previous voyageur sandboxes where I averaged about 1 every 3 days, I blame the scent mechanic for that, but I suppose there could be more wolf spawns, not sure.  20 blizzards in 60 days is not bad, and none of them I recall lasting more than half a day.

[Rada_]

Check this

 

[Mike in GA]

Have to say with the new content and story mode, the balance is much more in line with what it was prior to FC.  In the new sandbox have been attacked at least 7 times already, just got a rifle from the Carter dam. Killed my first wolf with bow and arrow. During the attacks, I am losing clothing, and about 25-30% condition, but this is livable easily. As I mentioned before on Voyager I was losing over 50% condition and the wolves were always at least two per attack, occasionally solo attacks, but much more often two or more.  Now on Voyager, wolves are still around and do track to scent, but living through attacks makes it more likely I can make it to shelter.  Only duo attack was when I was pressing my luck carrying 2 deer skins and 4 guts along with cooked meat. Risk/Reward seems much more in balance.

At the danger of sounding like a broken record, I can't say how much I love the new content and I've only been in Mystery Lake, mainly scouring the zone for the rifle. The interior lighting is much more in line, I love the new designs on all the consumables, I have not seen the coffee yet, and hope it still has the hinterland logo on it. Dream time on the tea, the dream catchers in the cabins, the total clutter everywhere. And I haven't even done story mode yet very far. Got killed by wolves in the dark like 3 times.

Again Long Dark has taken many hours of my life and time that I willingly am glad to give. My gratitude for such an excellent game. Can't wait to see what is happening in the future......Cheers and thanks to the team.