Faithful Cartographer - can't climb ropes


fearofspam

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I was on top of a ridge/cliff or something on TWM and I was at 30.90 kg.  When I tried to climb down the rope it said "too encumbered to climb".  I had just woken up from sleeping all night so I was not fatigued or anything.  Is this a bug?  Even if they changed the weight limits for climbing, climbing down shouldn't be a problem when you are only 0.9 over.

FYI - I had gotten the same error message the night before, but I assumed it was just the wrong text because I was exhausted.  So I slept all night expecting to get down in the morning.  Didn't work.

Given how heavy clothes are now, I don't know how we're supposed to collect anything from the summit if we can only climb with 30kg.

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19 hours ago, fearofspam said:

I was on top of a ridge/cliff or something on TWM and I was at 30.90 kg.  When I tried to climb down the rope it said "too encumbered to climb".  I had just woken up from sleeping all night so I was not fatigued or anything.  Is this a bug?  Even if they changed the weight limits for climbing, climbing down shouldn't be a problem when you are only 0.9 over.

No.. this is not a bug. This is how Hinterland wants it. During testing, a number of people pointed out that while it made sense to impose a limit for climbing up, it was ridiculous that the same limit applied when climbing down. Hinterland chose to ignore them.

19 hours ago, fearofspam said:

Given how heavy clothes are now, I don't know how we're supposed to collect anything from the summit if we can only climb with 30kg.

This is precisely the point the testers made.. bringing loot down from the summit now will be so difficult as to hardly be worth the effort.

(A suggestion was made that instead of climbing down encumbered, perhaps we could be able to lower a bundle of loot down by rope, before climbing down ourselves.. that too was ignored.)

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11 minutes ago, Wasteland Watcher said:

Can you please tell me which patch notes list that change? I don't recall seeing that in the Faithful Caryographer notes

As I've discovered during the two rounds of TLD test-build playtesting I've been involved in, a lot of (even very significant) changes don't make it into Hinterland's changelogs.

In that regard, they are one of the laziest slackest development teams I've ever encountered. I'm used to seeing comprehensive changelogs for games and other programs, but it seems this is something Hinterland can't manage to do. My guess is it's due to their backgrounds developing AAA games, where such things seem to be regarded as unimportant.

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For an example, compare the latest TLD release notes with the latest changelog for Kerbal Space Program 1.3 (which patch, it should be noted, was mostly about retrofitting localisation). Every single thing that was changed about the gameplay was noted.. as was every single bugfix. This was actually a shorter bugfix list than usual.. but there's never a "too many bugfixes to mention" copout. Everything is detailed.

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57 minutes ago, Wasteland Watcher said:

I've got a hunch they're "rushing things" because of the Aug 1 release.

I respectfully disagree.. they've always been lazy with changelog details. Like I said, I think it's that AAA mentality.

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21 minutes ago, JAFO said:

Yup.. even corrections to grammar are noted.. I can't imagine Hinterland ever bothering to mention something like that.

Interesting ... well, I think the best thing is that we all keep on providing them feedback, and they keep on optimizing and crafting the game to continually improve it :)

 

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 I wrote a long post about this in the test branch forum, but I think it bears repeating.

 It's akin to the invisible hand, the wall that is centimeters too high to jump or the blocking volume that prevents access to an area; an implausible, arbitrary restriction. To climb heavy, fatigue depletes quicker: plausible, acceptable. You smell like a killing floor, wolves come running: plausible. Weight restrictions on storage containers: plausible. Too tired to read: plausible. Can't read with a sprained ankle: implausible. A message that says "no" to climbing heavy: implausible. Sure, 55Kg, fine, plausible, but not a "no"; let my fatigue run dry 3 pulls up.

 With no other action in the game are we outright denied without a plausible rationale. "You can't light a fire in this wind": plausible, logical, acceptable. Map delineations by rock faces and steep drifts: plausible, logical, acceptable. These things become invisible to the player thanks to plausibility and logic; we don't see the edges of the map, we see cliff faces and they become invisible to their true nature. Implausible denials become not only visible, but are difficult to overcome in terms of the suspension of disbelief upon which so many entertainment media rely upon. When a movie has major plot holes, we are snapped back into reality and mutter "What the...?" and go get some popcorn.

 The current climbing mechanic is just such a jolt back into reality. The kind that has you remove your hands from the controllers and cry foul. As has been said here and was said in the testing forum, there are just too many rational alternatives to the current system to accept it as plausible; it is just a nonsensical game rule, a decision made in code that at best is illogical and immersion breaking, at worst, hostile toward the player.

 TWM simply isn't worth it anymore. The run was a huge risk/reward; go up scarily light, come down crazy heavy. That was the reason to go there. Now one has to spend inordinate amounts of time sleeping/resting/ to ferry tiny loads down, repeating this on each and every rope to the Hut, even more if you want to get some of that gear down through Pleasant Valley. Grind, grind, grind.

 Let the plausible game factors tell me what I can or can't do and let me take the risk of climbing heavy. To deny this to me is simply removing agency, autonomy and puts a pin into the bubble of illusion.

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1 hour ago, Carbon said:

When a movie has major plot holes, we are snapped back into reality and mutter "What the...?" and go get some popcorn.

 The current climbing mechanic is just such a jolt back into reality. The kind that has you remove your hands from the controllers and cry foul. As has been said here and was said in the testing forum, there are just too many rational alternatives to the current system to accept it as plausible; it is just a nonsensical game rule, a decision made in code that at best is illogical and immersion breaking, at worst, hostile toward the player.

 TWM simply isn't worth it anymore. The run was a huge risk/reward; go up scarily light, come down crazy heavy. That was the reason to go there. Now one has to spend inordinate amounts of time sleeping/resting/ to ferry tiny loads down, repeating this on each and every rope to the Hut, even more if you want to get some of that gear down through Pleasant Valley. Grind, grind, grind.

 Let the plausible game factors tell me what I can or can't do and let me take the risk of climbing heavy. To deny this to me is simply removing agency, autonomy and puts a pin into the bubble of illusion.

Very, very, very well said!

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2 hours ago, Carbon said:

Can't read with a sprained ankle: implausible.

I agree with your comments overall, but most especially this one.   I've encountered this a few times before but it still surprises me when it happens.  I guess it's so counter to common sense and real life experience that my brain refuses to accept it as a rule of the game.

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Thank you JAFO and Carbon for such well thought out responses.  This is certainly eye-opening.  I legitimately thought it was a bug, I can't believe they would do something like that on purpose.  My first map with Faithful Cartographer was TWM; I quit before my first 24 hours was up because of the climbing.  I'd figure I'd try the mountain again once it was fixed. 

I guess there really is no point in going to that map.  Especially now that clothes are so heavy.  In a way, this makes me side-eye the development team just as much as when they launched that stupid countdown to a countdown thing. 

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I love Timberwolf mountain to explore; it's such a beautiful place.  I don't go there for the loot. When I need something, I know where to find it, take what I need and leave the rest behind.  

I enjoy the new additions to this update that encourage us to "lighten the load".  It allows me to move about the landscapes with grace and agility, all the while keeping a keen eye out for danger... and make a quick escape/quick response.

I was hoping that the rope climbing restriction would encourage more players to explore TWM rather than scoot in, scoot to the summit, loot, and scoot out again...

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1 hour ago, wren said:

I love Timberwolf mountain to explore; it's such a beautiful place.  I don't go there for the loot. When I need something, I know where to find it, take what I need and leave the rest behind.  

I enjoy the new additions to this update that encourage us to "lighten the load".  It allows me to move about the landscapes with grace and agility, all the while keeping a keen eye out for danger... and make a quick escape/quick response.

I was hoping that the rope climbing restriction would encourage more players to explore TWM rather than scoot in, scoot to the summit, loot, and scoot out again...

 "Take what you need" is relative. I'm a long-game player and as such, almost everything up there is necessary at some point particularly whetstones. I should qualify my statement I suppose, as there are 3 container locations that can be reached without a climb, but nonetheless, the epic summit run - which was always quite a dramatic moment in the game - is now disappointing. It used to be a leisurely few days at the summit, enjoying the spoils if only for a short while but now you're either forced to go up there without a bedroll or if you take one up, leave it there (which if you have a bearskin bedroll is a tough choice) in lieu of other items. One can do the risky bunny hop down the face heavy, but then the gear you inevitably had to leave at the base of the last rope is gone. Meh...too many concessions that just don't need to be there.

 To be fair, it can be reached and the items can be ferried down bit by bit and as you say, if you're going up for one specific item, then sure, maybe that's fine. The issue remains however that it almost makes a summit run a zero-sum game. The paradox of climbing light yet needing enough supplies for the run is nonsensical and unreasonable; one will expend as much as one would gain; The Long Grind.

 Ammo and whetstones, maybe exchange some clothes...this is the sole reason for the run now.

 It might start a new meta game strat: speed run up naked with 20 coffees and an empty pack. :P

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I like to play stalker without guns, or interloper, and so it's easier to travel light.  When I'm on a long, long run, I need a bit of adventure now and then, so I'll go to the summit several times, taking different routes... for me, it's the adventure of the journey, and the destination is for kickin' back, eating well, coffee time, taking in the view, trading old for new, then onward again....  (of course, later in the game, it's only good for spiffing up the tool collection, but the view's still there)

Love the naked speed run idea;)!

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 @wren, with all due respect my friend, I think you're the exception rather than the rule. I'm glad you are happy, but that doesn't really speak to the issue.

 The arguments for maintaining the current climbing mechanic are easily understood because as it stands, your way is really the only way, and that is the problem. The previous system didn't deny you from playing your way, but the new one does ours. Where you used to simply make choices, we now haven't one to make.

 

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2 hours ago, Carbon said:

 @wren, with all due respect my friend, I think you're the exception rather than the rule. I'm glad you are happy, but that doesn't really speak to the issue.

 The arguments for maintaining the current climbing mechanic are easily understood because as it stands, your way is really the only way, and that is the problem. The previous system didn't deny you from playing your way, but the new one does ours. Where you used to simply make choices, we now haven't one to make.

 

My sentiments exactly.

I am a strictly voyager casual player (definitely not expert) but I can't survive in TWM without the loot at the summit.  I think the climbing mechanic takes away from both experienced game players and casual ones like myself.  

The scenery in TLD is beautiful.  However, my goal when playing is always to survive and taking leisurely strolls through wolf and bear infested mountains is counterproductive to that. 

I've been playing for years and I actually like that I haven't gotten all that great at it.  It means the game is always challenging for me.  This climbing thing is too much though.

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I've now made a forum account just to add my voice to those others who don't care for this change.  Especially since my character is now sitting on top of timberwolf mountain peak and I'm only now aware of the change.

I really like the idea of adding a sling or bag craftable that would allow you to use climbing ropes to lower extra gear.  It would keep the climbing requirement, while allowing the climb down from the peak to not be made in 10+ trips.

I love this game, and it won't stop me from playing, but honestly it's so annoying I'm tempted to leave that character up there and start another.  Even though I'll probably just abandon all my tools and make a few trips, the long grind indeed.

On 6/9/2017 at 6:05 PM, Carbon said:

 @wren, with all due respect my friend, I think you're the exception rather than the rule. I'm glad you are happy, but that doesn't really speak to the issue.

 The arguments for maintaining the current climbing mechanic are easily understood because as it stands, your way is really the only way, and that is the problem. The previous system didn't deny you from playing your way, but the new one does ours. Where you used to simply make choices, we now haven't one to make.

 

Carbon, I could not have said it better myself, very elegant.

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I know it's not a fix, but I have found at least one way down TWM never using a rope.  It's possible to descend from Summit to Secluded Ledge, and then down past the open Cave.  Average run I sprain an ankle and wrist, but I've made it down that path enough that there's only wood left on the Mountain.  5 runs or so.  I still think the mechanic is convoluted, but my no ropes way is the fastest down I've found.

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