Any news on modding support?

[Shane Retter]

This comes as a very positive request after seeing such a vast range of 'love / like / hate' reactions to changes made in the test branch. It's completely delusional to expect any dev team to make a game that has everything everyone wants, just the way they want it ... the new UI for just one example.

I'm wondering if Hinterland would be able to offer some details on the modding support idea? as I know it has been mentioned before. Personally, I'm really looking forward to maybe being able to make new Challenges for the community and have them available for download in the Steam Workshop, also making some individual mods, and larger incorporated mod packs is something I'm longing to have a crack at.

Has there been any more talk on the if, when, and how for modding? I'm kind of assuming there may be another 'Roadmap' revision in August, and this could include more 'post release' markers [modding being one].

 

 

[EricTheGreat12]

First off, ignore the roadmap: it's an absolute mess and has been in non-sync with current developments for at least a year. 

 

In terms of modding, Hinterland I believe has stated mods as "something we will look at in the future". What that tells me is that they're not extremely keen on this idea, so I wouldn't get your hopes up

[Shane Retter]

Kind of why it would be nice to have some 'this is our current thinking on this' contact from the team themselves. Even if it is just to say "we don't really know yet".

As for the Roadmap, this is why I though they may revise it after August maybe .... they may be able to reassess their goals, and set out some new markers for the game in general

[Mel Guille]

At the moment the entire team is focused on the update and preparing for the August 1st launch, so we're not able to investigate modding just yet. We are certainly interested in exploring mod support down the road, but we want to make sure we can do it right.

[EricTheGreat12]

19 hours ago, Shane Retter said:

As for the Roadmap, this is why I though they may revise it after August maybe .... they may be able to reassess their goals, and set out some new markers for the game in general

And when they finish off on August 1st, their roadmap will be the same: Give 1-2 month window to features that they will put in the game over a span of few months, and 3-4 and 6-8 months objectives will never be accomplished. 

 

There's no use in having one if they cannot do it properly. Give us a general concensus of what you want in the long term, but don't give us a timeframe 

[togg]

18 minutes ago, EricTheGreat12 said:

And when they finish off on August 1st, their roadmap will be the same: Give 1-2 month window to features that they will put in the game over a span of few months, and 3-4 and 6-8 months objectives will never be accomplished. 

 

There's no use in having one if they cannot do it properly. Give us a general concensus of what you want in the long term, but don't give us a timeframe 

That's not fair, they've explained that story mode took more resources than expected. We'll see after the first episodes are released how thing will be arranged.

[EricTheGreat12]

25 minutes ago, togg said:

That's not fair, they've explained that story mode took more resources than expected. We'll see after the first episodes are released how thing will be arranged.

Not a good reason to explain the fact that they showed off the moose, yet were willing to remove it due to 'time restraints'. I love the game, hate the fact that Hinterland can't seem to arrange anything on time

[Shane Retter]

Thanks @Mel Guille, the reply is really appreciated. I'm looking forward to joining in some discussions on it later down the road.

[techActual]

I'm not a game developer, but I wonder what holds back the community from modding this game? I'm new here, but before I bought in I checked out the roadmap and modding support was listed. I looked into the modding scene and only found one real project. I was surprised to see the developer comment on these forums that Hinterland wasn't fond of mod discussions on the forums.. Has that changed? If so, will we see a modding sub forum?

I'm sure some of you are familiar with 7 Days to Die? If not, the game is another kickstarted survival success story. Similar to TLD, the development on 7DTD takes time. In those long periods between official updates an amazing modding scene has developed. There are three primary mods which feature ranging difficulties and a large amount custom assets. Most players choose between True Survivial, Valmod, and the Stravation Mod Pack. All three ranges in their levels of development and customization.

All that being said, any theory on why this sort of mod culture didn't form around TLD?

On 5/23/2017 at 3:52 PM, Mel Guille said:

At the moment the entire team is focused on the update and preparing for the August 1st launch, so we're not able to investigate modding just yet. We are certainly interested in exploring mod support down the road, but we want to make sure we can do it right.

Understandable. I'm a little weary about official mod support in relation to smaller teams like Hinterland. While I'm sure you have the best intentions, it's hard to justify allocation resources.. This is a pretty common occurrence in gaming now, especially considering all the crowd funded teams out there. However, even the big boys with unlimited resources can't always find the time.. The Minecraft MOD API comes to mind.

[Patrick Carlson]

Hi @techActual - we don't have any news to share regarding mod support right now - we're hard at work preparing for our August launch. But you might find this older post by our creative director of interest, if you haven't read it already. 

 

[techActual]

4 minutes ago, Patrick Carlson said:

Hi @techActual - we don't have any news to share regarding mod support right now - we're hard at work preparing for our August launch. But you might find this older post by our creative director of interest, if you haven't read it already.

 

Hi @Patrick Carlson thanks for taking the time and that link. I hadn't seen it yet and that's really great to read! Any personal insight on the current state of modding TLD and the lack of community developed projects?

[Carbon]

On 6/27/2017 at 3:29 AM, techActual said:

Hi @Patrick Carlson thanks for taking the time and that link. I hadn't seen it yet and that's really great to read! Any personal insight on the current state of modding TLD and the lack of community developed projects?

 I think this is answered in the linked post by Raphael. After story mode is released and things are settled, then they will start to consider modding. Nothing has essentially changed from when that post was made.

[techActual]

20 hours ago, Carbon said:

 I think this is answered in the linked post by Raphael. After story mode is released and things are settled, then they will start to consider modding. Nothing has essentially changed from when that post was made.

I'm sorry if I was unclear, but when I ask about the current state of modding I am referring to the lack of community modding. Developers rarely release tools to the community or an API to encourage modding. It's usually the community that either happens to have the talent and/or the game is built in an accessible way. When a game has a lower barrier of entry to tweak like Rimworld or 7 Days To Die, modders and tweakers just come out of the wood work. I've looked over the game files, and there aren't any text files that allow balance changes or anything simple so this game obviously requires more involvement. Two TLD mod makers come to mind @FINDarkside and @ShieldHeart who have both released some great stuff. I was just wondering if @Patrick Carlson has any personal insight regarding the current state.. Thanks for the reply and I'll try to be more clear in my replies.

 

*Edit - While I was checking to see if @ShieldHeart was registered here, I noticed he posted a similar thread that @Mel Guille replied to with this:

On 4/25/2017 at 5:13 PM, Mel Guille said:

At this time, mods are limited to translations, but we would like to look into official support for mods down the road. We want to make sure we are able to do it right.

Can @Mel Guille or @Patrick Carlson expand on the use of "limited" here?

[Patrick Carlson]

Hi @techActual - no I don't have anything personal to share right now. In terms of "limited", that refers to our official support. Through development, with each update, we have released a new version of the translation strings that community members use to produce their own translations for Survival Mode (Sandbox).

But we're very aware of interest in modding among the community - it's on our radar for sure. Right now we're focused on getting the first episodes of Wintermute (story mode) out the door. 

[Carbon]

2 hours ago, techActual said:

I'm sorry if I was unclear, but when I ask about the current state of modding I am referring to the lack of community modding. Developers rarely release tools to the community or an API to encourage modding.

 You weren't unclear at all and what I wrote speaks to your question directly. After story mode is released they will start to consider modding. So, perhaps implied, is that there are no mods now, but may be in the future. This coming from Raphael seems pretty clear and is summarily what Patrick just said.

[techActual]

1 hour ago, Carbon said:

 You weren't unclear at all and what I wrote speaks to your question directly. After story mode is released they will start to consider modding. So, perhaps implied, is that there are no mods now, but may be in the future. This coming from Raphael seems pretty clear and is summarily what Patrick just said.

Sorry I must have done it again. Maybe we're just talking at one another? What I'm been trying to say is that in my experience it doesn't require the developers blessing for gamers to make mods. I gave examples of a few games where the developers have also been pro-mod with no official support. Two I mentioned have healthy modding communities. I was attempting to expand on all that and ask why people think TLD doesn't really have much of one..

[Carbon]

  The question then is why isn't there currently a modding community.  I suppose - and someone please correct me if I'm wrong - it isn't sanctioned. If that is a legal bind (EULA as it pertains to potential decompiling/recompiling source code) or just a respectful aversion, I'm not sure. Likely the former.

 But maybe we should define 'mod'. Is the providing of a real-time map that works with the game a mod? Is a running a script to enable auto-walking a mod? If so, then the game has been modded. If you mean full-scale overhauls or adding creatures, items or maps, etc, then I suppose it's because modders don't have the tools they need (or the desire?) to mod TLD (an unfinished product which, when finished, may break any mod created now making it a potential waste of time). I know that Unity doesn't have a default mod system; tools need to be made for each game specifically and this leads back to what Raphael's post implied, they may release tools which support modding after story mode is complete. Surely the creation of those tools would break the TLD's EULA.

 There is an interesting discussion about the topic here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Unity3D/comments/48dp7a/lets_talk_about_modding_unity_games/  It's a long read, but worth it for insight into the idea of modding Unity games.

 Another good read here: http://www.turiyaware.com/creating-a-moddable-unity-game/

 

[tortuosit]

I'd say forget mod support. I cannot see TLD has been built with mod support in mind (the oppossite is the case*) and chances are usually low you will suddenly see a full moddability. From all experience, forget it.

* The thing is pretty monolithic. I think it's their concept, to keep things simple. If we ask for more options, it mostly did not happen. Examples for what I have mentioned or ask for: Optional stuff in UI, optional numbers at TAB menu, user made scenarios/challenges/missions...

And, it's a unity game. We do not see 100s of xml or configuration files, which would already awaken the modders itch to change the game to his needs. There is nothing.

No, my prediction is, we will not see mod support. If there is whatever amount of mod support, we'll not see a vital modding community. Because some necessary factors for a vital modding community are not there. E.g., one factor, it's the time. It's too late then. The game lives NOW.