Modding

[Vulp]

So, as I understand it, after the full release,  modding and the steam workshop will be open. What kinds of mods would you like to see in the game?

[MueckE]

I just want a "Balancing-Mod", or basicly a well balanced "Survivor" based on a concept. Right now, sandbox is just ... sandbox. The devs don't care about sandbox and use it just for testing stuff. It is not seen as a game itself. That the devs wanted to focus on storymode is understandable but now they revealed that they don't plan to change it - that there is no intention to have parts of the studio working exclusively on sandbox. So if modding is possible than i would like to see the community doing it.

Other than that, i bet there is a demand for a "realism mod" (whatever that means), a "fun mod" where you have lots of guns and a co-op mod. These are the most popular requests i remember.

[nicko]

4 hours ago, Vulp said:

So, as I understand it, after the full release,  modding and the steam workshop will be open. What kinds of mods would you like to see in the game?

From what I have heard there will be no modding (but maybe in future). all I see so far is language packs.

[Mel Guille]

 

14 hours ago, Vulp said:

So, as I understand it, after the full release,  modding and the steam workshop will be open. What kinds of mods would you like to see in the game?

Just to be clear, we haven't had a chance to look into modding support yet, so it's probably not going to be available right after the August 1st release. Wintermute (Story Mode) and the upcoming Sandbox update are going to have us pretty busy for a while.

However we would like to explore mod support down the road -- it would be super interesting to see some of our player's takes on the world. However it's important to us that we are able to do it right.

[MarrowStone]

23 minutes ago, Mel Guille said:

 

Just to be clear, we haven't had a chance to look into modding support yet, so it's probably not going to be available right after the August 1st release. Wintermute (Story Mode) and the upcoming Sandbox update are going to have us pretty busy for a while.

However we would like to explore mod support down the road -- it would be super interesting to see some of our player's takes on the world. However it's important to us that we are able to do it right.

Thank you for this clarification.

What are the criteria and consequences of modding support? In other words, how would it affect the hinterland team and the community if implemented?

Would releasing the coding to a modify-able format have a negative outcome such as being a long process for the devs or risk piracy copies being made? Or more specifically, what does the team see as, "right" for their game and the modding community?

[Dirmagnos]

14 hours ago, Mel Guille said:

However we would like to explore mod support down the road -- it would be super interesting to see some of our player's takes on the world. However it's important to us that we are able to do it right.

It would be nice to have some basic tutorials on how to mod game data, till proper tools will be implemented. Similar to what was done with W3.

[JAFO]

On 5/7/2017 at 7:14 AM, MarrowStone said:

Would releasing the coding to a modify-able format have a negative outcome such as being a long process for the devs or risk piracy copies being made?

It's not necessary to release the code to permit modding. Whilst it depends on the game of course, it's generally possible to make a lot of things possible simply by creating and publishing an API (Application Programming Interface) which permits various aspects of the game to be altered. Just what can be altered, and to what extent, remains fully in the control of the devs. That way piracy stays no more of a problem than it presently is.

As for how long it would take, that depends on how much of the game the devs choose to open up to modding. But it's not really a major task in itself. Making sure it gets done right is probably the most time consuming part.

[MarrowStone]

On 5/13/2017 at 1:10 AM, JAFO said:

It's not necessary to release the code to permit modding. Whilst it depends on the game of course, it's generally possible to make a lot of things possible simply by creating and publishing an API (Application Programming Interface) which permits various aspects of the game to be altered. Just what can be altered, and to what extent, remains fully in the control of the devs. That way piracy stays no more of a problem than it presently is.

As for how long it would take, that depends on how much of the game the devs choose to open up to modding. But it's not really a major task in itself. Making sure it gets done right is probably the most time consuming part.

Thank you for this reply, makes much more sense now. 

And what would you consider "getting it done right?"

[Dirmagnos]

On 5/13/2017 at 9:10 AM, JAFO said:

That way piracy stays no more of a problem than it presently is.

Ability to mod game has nothing to do with piracy. I dont know of a single game to date that havent been cracked. Especially considering that tLD is build on a rather well known engine.

For even remotely competent programmer it wouldnt take much to take it apart, change what he wants and put it back together. Considering that currently hacker teams that operate on game scene, like CPY, are having fun beating the shit out of most recent attempts to keep pirates out, called Denuvo, tLD is not even on their radar.

[JAFO]

15 hours ago, MarrowStone said:

And what would you consider "getting it done right?"

If everything that people want to be able to change can be changed, with safeguards in place to prevent game-breaking changes being applied, that comes close. It also needs to be very well documented. It can take a lot of time and experimentation to figure those kind of details out. It would also involve working closely with the modding community. They tend to want to do things that the devs never even imagined doing with their game, so it tends to be somewhat of an ongoing process.

If you're curious what a modding API 'done right' looks like, a couple of examples would be those of Kerbal Space Program and the Oolite Javascript Reference. (Both links take you to the documentation for the API)

[King.Of.Print]

On 06/05/2017 at 6:14 PM, MarrowStone said:

Thank you for this clarification.

What are the criteria and consequences of modding support? In other words, how would it affect the hinterland team and the community if implemented?

Would releasing the coding to a modify-able format have a negative outcome such as being a long process for the devs or risk piracy copies being made? Or more specifically, what does the team see as, "right" for their game and the modding community?

modding is (in it's core) just taking it apart and glueing it back together with more stuff inside.
to make it easy the best approach is to make everything in to module and keep to code easy to read.
some games, like XCOM - enemy unknown has mod, but it's so much mess and everything is so hard glued together, (hard coding with little regard to further development) that only one mod is available, and it's very hard to install, still the engine is well know.
others is so modular that it has tons of mods, like KSP.
and some just have a nice modding API + big modding community, like TES-Skyrim.

consequences? is just like giving kids a room full of tint cans and all short of painting tools/materials and letting them have fun.

if TLD has a mostly modular codding system, that's easy to understand, people will make mods for it, with or without official support.
if not... maybe it will live without mods.
 

[MarrowStone]

Thanks for all this information on how modding works, never really had experience in it.

[grimreefer24601]

This game is already moddable.  There are tools and tutorials for modding any game made using the Unity Engine.  The only reason modding is not as prevalent here, as it is on other Unity game sites, is because Hinterland specifically discourages "unofficial" modding, and the discussion of such.  I, and many others, mod the hell out of this game.  We just don't talk about it.

[Doc Gonzo]

So Grim, does the coding line up in a mod friendly fashion as king.of.print describes?

[Wasteland Watcher]

I hope The Long Dark stays pure and mod free, completely controlled by Hinterland.

Because over the past few years they have proved they are a developer to be trusted.  

They're one of the very few developers that *can* be trusted. 

 Marring their game would be a crime. 

[slackhideo]

29 minutes ago, Wasteland Watcher said:

I hope The Long Dark stays pure and mod free, completely controlled by Hinterland.

Because over the past few years they have proved they are a developer to be trusted.  

They're one of the very few developers that *can* be trusted. 

 Marring their game would be a crime. 

I respect your opinion, of course. But I prefer to have options: if I want to play the vanilla game, I would ignore mods; if I want to play the game modded into a version that matches my preferences, I would use such a mod.

And everybody stays happy.

[nicko]

If modding is coming I hope its restricted else goodbye, this game is unique and should stay it for now. Sure when the time comes I am sure you will get modding tools. long way off yet it seems.

[grimreefer24601]

@Doc Gonzo Not really from what I see.  Unity itself is somewhat mod friendly, if you know what you're doing.   The Long Dark is as moddable as any Unity game, but that modding requires a lot of work, and tools. 

The code is easily moddable, but it's in a "Highlander" fashion.  "There can be only one".  The current code wasn't designed for plugin interface,  Even if Hinterland implemented an external DLL loader, they don't seem to have an appropriate event/message callback, or any other way to hook up a code mod.  You could use some built in Unity interfaces.  Because Unity uses Managed C# DLLs a plugin engine would be ideal for code mods.

Most of the variables we want to mod are assigned inside the Unity Editor.  Without a tool that can mod those it's out of reach of most people.  Although, without a tool, all the assets are inaccessable.  Asset files can be modded, unofficially, but without extensibility built in it only allows modifying textures and models and sprites, oh my!  I don't know that such a tool exists anymore.  I was working on one, but didn't have the time to keep up on it.  Ideally for modding this game, assets need to be loadable from external directories.  The built in Unity public variables need to be loaded from xml or JSON, I don't care if it's a native format with a tool.  Those are the variable we really want access to.

Right now, The Long Dark, is not very mod friendly, but it's still highly moddable.

[cekivi]

Hey Folks.

Just a friendly reminder that until mod support is added modification of game files is not a topic that is allowed on the forums. So, for the time being, wish lists are fine but actual instructions for modifying game files (or discussion of said files) are not.