question Why aren't spears and drying racks in the game?

[Docterrok]

I've just been wondering, they've been on the wishlist forever, why aren't they in the game yet? I am not trying to sound unappreciative, I am just curious. 

[Amazombie]

I agree.

[Vulp]

Mainly because Hinderland has bigger fish to fry rn. And they aren't really crutual elements, but they are really hard to code 

[Cantousent]

Yeah, I agree Vulp.  I actually think the game is pretty damned polished as is and introducing new content, which I think they *should* do, will nevertheless mean more bugs.

[Vulp]

Not to mention balancing and community feedback. Spears in particular shouldn't come till after the full release. They have a time crunch rn

[Docterrok]

12 hours ago, Vulp said:

Not to mention balancing and community feedback. Spears in particular shouldn't come till after the full release. They have a time crunch rn

Well, they are implementing throwing... so spears should be a logical next step.

[Dirmagnos]

On 5/6/2017 at 9:09 AM, Vulp said:

Mainly because Hinderland has bigger fish to fry rn. And they aren't really crutual elements, but they are really hard to code 

Bigger fish ?!?1 Like what ? What is more crucial that basics of survival ? And what exactly is hard to code about them, comparing to "bigger fish" stuff ?

[Vulp]

8 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

Bigger fish ?!?1 Like what ? What is more crucial that basics of survival ? And what exactly is hard to code about them, comparing to "bigger fish" stuff ?

Well, to be fair The long dark is a story driven game without a story, the AI in this game is frankly pretty basic compared to what it could be, and they are working on the full release of the game right now.

Hitboxes and collisions aren't something easy to code, especially in a game like this that doesn't really have a physics engine outside of arrows and flares. So they would need to custom code new hitboxes and collisions. After they did that, they need to add in a whole bunch of new animations, and they also need to code in properly placed textures for this new item (As well as making new textures for this item too). Also, they need to decide what you need to make this item, how effective it should be, what drawbacks it has, what happens when it breaks, and a slew of other balancing features.

And all that being said, the demand for spears isn't that high in comparison for the demand for new maps, quartering, rock throwing, etc etc that they are working on for the next and last sandbox update before the release.

[Dirmagnos]

19 hours ago, Vulp said:

Well, to be fair The long dark is a story driven game without a story, the AI in this game is frankly pretty basic compared to what it could be, and they are working on the full release of the game right now.

A chicken is a bird that cant fly, whats your point. I havent seen any reference to ai improvement in terms of progress and "full release" is not even an argument, as it is as generic as it gets. Its like saying "they are working on a game".

19 hours ago, Vulp said:

Hitboxes and collisions aren't something easy to code, especially in a game like this that doesn't really have a physics engine outside of arrows and flares. So they would need to custom code new hitboxes and collisions. After they did that, they need to add in a whole bunch of new animations, and they also need to code in properly placed textures for this new item (As well as making new textures for this item too). Also, they need to decide what you need to make this item, how effective it should be, what drawbacks it has, what happens when it breaks, and a slew of other balancing features.

But they do have those for arrows and that is half the work already done. Erm, do you even know what "hitboxes" are ? While some minor modifications would need to be made, but "new hitboxes" for every new weapon is one absurd claim, as they can use already exiting ones without much trouble.

And yes, new animations and textures. Except that it has to be done for absolutely everything new. Your argument is based on presumption that they should stop doing any thing whatsoever. You just describe normal development cycle, without actually making an argument why it shouldnt be done. Its a fact without a point.

19 hours ago, Vulp said:

And all that being said, the demand for spears isn't that high in comparison for the demand for new maps, quartering, rock throwing, etc etc that they are working on for the next and last sandbox update before the release.

Really ? Care to share your sources on how exactly you calculate that demand ? Aside of "because i think it should be done". Ive seen some of those, but compared to, for example, rock throwing, demand for spears is ahead by light years. There has been far more posts/topics about that subject.

And while new maps do occupy top of demand list, they have little to nothing to do with making spears, as different people on development team would deal with those two(there is some overlap in terms of quartering, but not that much either). Apples and oranges.

[Vulp]

7 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

A chicken is a bird that cant fly, whats your point. I havent seen any reference to ai improvement in terms of progress and "full release" is not even an argument, as it is as generic as it gets. Its like saying "they are working on a game".

Have you even read this? It's a community announcement about what they have been working on and what is going to happen over the next three months.

http://www.thelongdark.com/news/posts/light-at-the-end

7 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

But they do have those for arrows and that is half the work already done. Erm, do you even know what "hitboxes" are ? While some minor modifications would need to be made, but "new hitboxes" for every new weapon is one absurd claim, as they can use already exiting ones without much trouble.

And yes, new animations and textures. Except that it has to be done for absolutely everything new. Your argument is based on presumption that they should stop doing any thing whatsoever. You just describe normal development cycle, without actually making an argument why it shouldnt be done. Its a fact without a point.

There is nothing in the game for a melee hitbox of any weapon, so yes, new hitboxes would need to be made, with a whole new slew of calculations for how effective this weapon would be at killing a wolf or bear or even deer. And if you read the article, besides the rock throwing, all planned updates use models that are already in game with either a redo that you could reuse most of the coding for collisions again, or a minor tweak. This is because the game is coming out on august 1st.

 

8 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

Really ? Care to share your sources on how exactly you calculate that demand ? Aside of "because i think it should be done". Ive seen some of those, but compared to, for example, rock throwing, demand for spears is ahead by light years. There has been far more posts/topics about that subject.

And while new maps do occupy top of demand list, they have little to nothing to do with making spears, as different people on development team would deal with those two(there is some overlap in terms of quartering, but not that much either). Apples and oranges.

*ahem* How do you know people want spears? Care to share your sources on exactly how you calculate that demand? Because you think it should be done? I've only seen this topic asking for spears, and the demand for rock throwing is ahead by light years, there has been far more posts/topics about that subject.

Asking for evidence without providing any won't get you anywhere.

And how do you know how Hinterland's dev team works? The only information that I've seen about it is a note in the roadmap that about 2/3rds are working on story mode while 1/3rd is working on the sandbox updates. It seems like that with the small dev team that they have, everybody would contribute where they were needed rather than people only being assigned to one job, especially with how the sandbox updates didn't always update similar things, or everything at once.

And let me make it clear that I'm not opposed to spears being in the game, it just wouldn't be smart to add something so major, 85 days before the game is going to be fully released.

[Cantousent]

I've seen enough posts to conclude at least some of us want spears.  However, I would make two observations:

All these boards, even the aggregate of steam, Hinterlands, and reddit,  are too small of a sample to represent a conclusive statement about the desires of a players in the bulk.  It is, nevertheless, pretty much one way for the developers to hear from at least some players.  My gut instinct is that there is a group who would like to see spears and there is an even larger group not thinking about it much but who would enjoy a good implementation of them.  Since no one has provided better evidence than my gut, I'll stick with that for the time being.

I don't think it's too late for them to do it, but it would necessarily mean making choices.  I can't attest to how easy or hard it would be to add spears.  They *are* a sensible sort of request, but my usual stance is that the developers should first and foremost follow their own vision and if they find some inspiration from contact with players or exposure to new ideas elsewhere, all good.  I'd like to see spears, but I do buy in, at least somewhat, that the implementation would require at least some extra work.  Also, having briefly been in quality assurance, I can't think of anything new introduced to the game that doesn't have the potential for a lot of bugs.  I agree with Dirmagnos in that it's always been the case in regards to every bit of coding, so it isn't a reason not to do it, but it *might* be a reason to put it off if the team thinks it's too close to a release date.

[Dirmagnos]

13 hours ago, Vulp said:

Have you even read this? It's a community announcement about what they have been working on and what is going to happen over the next three months.http://www.thelongdark.com/news/posts/light-at-the-end

Yes, i read it, multiple times in last few days. And yet again you are dodging the question by providing completely irrelevant links. Made a lot of claims, and havent supported any of them with anything. 

Quote

There is nothing in the game for a melee hitbox of any weapon, so yes, new hitboxes would need to be made, with a whole new slew of calculations for how effective this weapon would be at killing a wolf or bear or even deer. And if you read the article, besides the rock throwing, all planned updates use models that are already in game with either a redo that you could reuse most of the coding for collisions again, or a minor tweak. This is because the game is coming out on august 1st.

Melee hitboxes ? Seriously ?!?! You just can let it go, even tho you apparently dont have a faintest idea what hitbox is or how it works.

And again you are making completely unfounded conjectures and "support" them with "because the game is coming out on august 1st". Considering that you obviously have no idea in what state of development game is as a whole, or any of it parts, you still continue creating connections where there are none.

Let me try: "And if you read the article, besides the rock throwing, all planned updates use models that are already in game with either a redo that you could reuse most of the coding for collisions again, or a minor tweak. This is because the game was supposed to be released 2 years ago." Looks legit...

Quote

*ahem* How do you know people want spears? Care to share your sources on exactly how you calculate that demand? Because you think it should be done? I've only seen this topic asking for spears, and the demand for rock throwing is ahead by light years, there has been far more posts/topics about that subject.Asking for evidence without providing any won't get you anywhere.

Ahh, deflecting, cute. I knew it will come and bite me in the ass(but being a dumbass, i just had to do it). Again, completely ignoring question. Im not even surprised anymore.

Basic community fast search yelds 239 results for "spears" and, wow, whole 18 results for "throwing rocks". Not particularly in-depth research, but even such shallow one is better than none at all.

Quote

And how do you know how Hinterland's dev team works? The only information that I've seen about it is a note in the roadmap that about 2/3rds are working on story mode while 1/3rd is working on the sandbox updates. It seems like that with the small dev team that they have, everybody would contribute where they were needed rather than people only being assigned to one job, especially with how the sandbox updates didn't always update similar things, or everything at once.

How do i know ? Seriously ?!??! I never made any claim regarding development progression, compared to you.

You love to make big announcements, yet dont even have a faintest idea how development of a game is going. Composition of development teams, roles of various people in it, cooperation, etc.

Yes, its a small team, but every person on it have specialization(or several, but they are usually related). Coders do not usually do art, audio guys do not do story, designers do not do QA, etc. You cant just yank out artist and send him coding. It doesnt work this way. Bigger the project, more work it will require, more specialized every person on dev team will be. And most of those specialists know their own specific area, be it coding or art design, and rarely dabble in other areas. Granted, there are plenty of old people industry veterans on dev team, but it doesnt make them all-knowing.

If youre presuming that every person on dev team is capable and is doing everything, from coding to story making, from marketing to art, then you are not just ignorant, but also stupid. Its one thing not knowing how things work, like to have no knowledge at all, and its another to make statements about it, without looking into matter even a little bit.

[Docterrok]

16 hours ago, Cantousent said:

I've seen enough posts to conclude at least some of us want spears.  However, I would make two observations:

All these boards, even the aggregate of steam, Hinterlands, and reddit,  are too small of a sample to represent a conclusive statement about the desires of a players in the bulk.  It is, nevertheless, pretty much one way for the developers to hear from at least some players.  My gut instinct is that there is a group who would like to see spears and there is an even larger group not thinking about it much but who would enjoy a good implementation of them.  Since no one has provided better evidence than my gut, I'll stick with that for the time being.

I don't think it's too late for them to do it, but it would necessarily mean making choices.  I can't attest to how easy or hard it would be to add spears.  They *are* a sensible sort of request, but my usual stance is that the developers should first and foremost follow their own vision and if they find some inspiration from contact with players or exposure to new ideas elsewhere, all good.  I'd like to see spears, but I do buy in, at least somewhat, that the implementation would require at least some extra work.  Also, having briefly been in quality assurance, I can't think of anything new introduced to the game that doesn't have the potential for a lot of bugs.  I agree with Dirmagnos in that it's always been the case in regards to every bit of coding, so it isn't a reason not to do it, but it *might* be a reason to put it off if the team thinks it's too close to a release date.

If they let me, I'd honestly make the spear myself on Blender and just send them the .OBJ file.

[Docterrok]

On 5/7/2017 at 2:25 PM, Vulp said:

Hitboxes and collisions aren't something easy to code

The hitboxes have already been done, If you code the spear like a big arrow, then there wouldn't be a problem.

[JAFO]

On 5/10/2017 at 2:51 AM, Docterrok said:

If they let me, I'd honestly make the spear myself on Blender and just send them the .OBJ file.

Honestly, that's the smallest and simplest part of the whole job..

[Scyzara]

Guys, unless some of you  manage to control your offensive tone a bit better here, this thread might get locked down at some point. 

That being said, spears are certainly NOT missing from the game because the Devs lack the time to create a 3D spear model. They're most likely missing because spears (given they were more than just another melee stabbing weapon you can choose when jumped by a wolf) would need way more coding and especially balancing work than just the creation of the plain model.

You would need throwing animations and short-distance flight curve physics (both probably rather easy), you need to find a way & optical representation how people can influence the flight distance (="power you use for throwing") and most importantly you need to change the wolf  AI to be harder to target/more evasive on short distances. They would e.g. need to run even more zigzag courses during the last 15 meters and/or try to circle you and attack your flanks instead of attacking directly. Which would in turn also make them harder to target by bow/rifle on short distances which would also need to be compensated for somehow.

Plus, one would need to change the stealth detection radius of wolves to make sure you can't sneak up to them and one-hit them with your spear all the time by default. Which would then in turn probably require changes of wolf-inhabited areas and wolf numbers to avoid stealth being useless in certain map areas in general.

So this one new mechanic (short-distance throwing) would come at a ton of work, most of which would be about AI balancing & stealth balancing in the light not only of spears, but also all other weapons available.

I wonder why you're not seeing it, but throwing stones is just the tuned-down version of spears. It's also a short-distance throwing technique, but as it's (probably) not going to be very lethal to wolves, it requires way less AI changes and no stealth changes.

At least that's my personal opinion why we're getting stones and not spears. And I seriously couldn't care less about neither of them. *resigned sigh*

[Hotzn]

I see this is a thread where video game developers come together to peacefully share their profound knowledge of coding. 

[Mortan1234]

spears do need to be put in the game however drying racks would be unnecessary as simply placing them outside to "freeze?" will keep their condition from decreasing by any significant amount. in fact you could probably eat an entire bear before the meat gets gamey if you kept all of it outside and exclusively ate it for the 15-30 days it would feed you (although you would need mushroom soup antibiotics or level 5 cooking to eat exclusively bear).