Treating or diminishing frostbite

[michael_martin]

Hey guys, I wanted to write because I just had a really frustrating experience on Stalker. I fell asleep in the spence family homestead, with very warm clothes on...my temperature was fine but then through the night I was afflicted twice with frostbite, yet could not wake up. Two suggestions:

 

1. Should be able to wake yourself up. I know this has been mentioned before but it doesn't seem right that you could almost die from frostbite but not wake up...

 

2. Should be able to treat frostbite. If you dry the area, cover it and soak it in warm water it can be diminished...here's an example:

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2017/02/10/how-to-treat-frostbite/

 

 

ANY THOUGHTS??

[Dirmagnos]

If addressed soon enough could be a viable option to prevent permanent damage.

[Gleudal]

i d like to cure it too, but otherwise it keeps difficaulty high if not

[Bumbleebee95]

Variables of frostbite?

1. first degree -5% condition per affected limb for a 14 day period.
2. second degree -10% condition per affected limb for a 28-30 day period.
3. third degree -10% condition per limb after a month 5% is recovered.
4. fourth degree -10% permanent condition loss per limb.
5. If one or both feet are frostbitten there is a penalty to movement speed.
6. Chances of contracting severe frostbite is initially low increasing as the global temperatures drop over time with some exceptions in the harshest regions and difficulties.

[JoE Smash]

You should be able to wake up if you start freezing to death. It is illogical that you cannot. You would in real life, and you should in the game...

[nicko]

6 hours ago, JoE Smash said:

You should be able to wake up if you start freezing to death. It is illogical that you cannot. You would in real life, and you should in the game...

Then why do humans still freeze to death?

[Pasquinel]

6 hours ago, JoE Smash said:

You should be able to wake up if you start freezing to death. It is illogical that you cannot. You would in real life, and you should in the game...

Actually when freezing to death you fall asleep and don't wake up. It's your body shutting down to preserve warmth but once you reach the point of no return you drift off into a slumber that feels warm but you are actually freezing to death and it's all over. One of the things you are supposed to do when trapped in the cold with inadequate protection is not to fall asleep.

However frost bite should not occur if you are sleeping indoors in a bed with your clothes on. Your body would generate enough heat in that situation aided by the insulation of your clothes and sleeping bag to prevent frost bite,

[nicko]

8 minutes ago, Pasquinel said:

Actually when freezing to death you fall asleep and don't wake up. It's your body shutting down to preserve warmth but once you reach the point of no return you drift off into a slumber that feels warm but you are actually freezing to death and it's all over. One of the things you are supposed to do when trapped in the cold with inadequate protection is not to fall asleep.

However frost bite should not occur if you are sleeping indoors in a bed with your clothes on. Your body would generate enough heat in that situation aided by the insulation of your clothes and sleeping bag to prevent frost bite,

well said and i agree!

I think gamers just need to play the game if your to cold warm up there a multiple ways.

[Carbon]

5 minutes ago, Pasquinel said:

However frost bite should not occur if you are sleeping indoors in a bed with your clothes on. Your body would generate enough heat in that situation aided by the insulation of your clothes and sleeping bag to prevent frost bite,

 Well, not always. If your clothes are wet and the ambient temperature is low enough, fingers and toes are so very vulnerable. Frostbite is as deceptive as hypothermia, an example of how a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

 Anyhow, the Spence Homestead is simply out of the wind; it offers zero ambient temperature protection and the bed is only +5 degrees. Kind of asking for trouble if you don't sleep in  1 or 2 hour lots and is a big reason why FM is a tough place to survive. No 10 hour fire, you spin the wheel.

[Pasquinel]

4 minutes ago, Carbon said:

 Well, not always. If your clothes are wet and the ambient temperature is low enough, fingers and toes are so very vulnerable. Frostbite is as deceptive as hypothermia, an example of how a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

 Anyhow, the Spence Homestead is simply out of the wind; it offers zero ambient temperature protection and the bed is only +5 degrees. Kind of asking for trouble if you don't sleep in  1 or 2 hour lots and is a big reason why FM is a tough place to survive. No 10 hour fire, you spin the wheel.

If someone were to sleep with wet clothes on then absolutely what you say is true. However, the first rule of preventing hypothermia and frost bite is to remove wet clothes as soon as possible and get dry. You are better off sleeping dry naked in a sleeping bag than leaving on wet clothes.

However the original post made no mention of having wet clothes on, only that they slept indoors, in a bed, fully clothed. Which should have been sufficient to prevent frost bite. A dry, fully clothed person should be fairly safe sleeping indoors. A bed mattress will insulate from losing body heat to the ground and will reflect some back, the blankets and or sleeping bag along with clothing should offer significant heat retention enough to keep the tissue from freezing and protect from frostbite.

The game mechanics which are not realistic as we all know may act otherwise and we have to adjust our behavior accordingly but I think the original post brings up a fair point.

I have spent a great deal of time working outdoors in extreme cold, and done plenty of winter camping, sleeping in tents, with sleeping bag, with no fire and have not gotten frostbite.

Also being simply out of the wind is a big advantage and should not be dismissed, as it can mean the difference between life and death wet or dry.

[Carbon]

 I'm with you all the way mate. I have done all on your list and more (I realize how that sounds, but it's true) and escaped without incident. I have also been mildly frostbitten shoveling the driveway and wasn't even aware of it. In fact, that's how it usually goes down; after you lose sufficient sensation in your extremities, next thing you know, its done.

 What we don't know is yes, if the clothes were wet or dry (probably dry, I suppose) what clothes the OP was wearing and the overnight temperatures. Also, the Homestead is not "indoors"; blocked from the wind, yes, but that's it. And while I won''t diminish wind protection benefits, I also won't overstate it.

[Pasquinel]

3 minutes ago, Carbon said:

 I'm with you all the way mate. I have done all on your list and more (I realize how that sounds, but it's true) and escaped without incident. I have also been mildly frostbitten shoveling the driveway and wasn't even aware of it. In fact, that's how it usually goes down; after you lose sufficient sensation in your extremities, next thing you know, its done.

 What we don't know is yes, if the clothes were wet or dry (probably dry, I suppose) what clothes the OP was wearing and the overnight temperatures. Also, the Homestead is not "indoors"; blocked from the wind, yes, but that's it. And while I won''t diminish wind protection benefits, I also won't overstate it.

Agreed!

[JoE Smash]

Myth Busted:

https://www.woot.com/blog/post/the-debunker-will-sleeping-in-extreme-cold-kill-you

So if you go to bed warm, you should wake up if you get too cold. If you wake up cold, do nothing to remedy it, and go back to bed....that's on you.

Unless you alreay have hypothermia. You should warm up first, then go to bed....

[JAFO]

23 hours ago, JoE Smash said:

Myth Busted:

https://www.woot.com/blog/post/the-debunker-will-sleeping-in-extreme-cold-kill-you

Thanks for confirming something I'd long suspected.

The relevant part:
 

Quote

it turns out not to be a problem unless the sleeper is already suffering badly from exposure to the cold. “Unless you’re severely hypothermic,” said Quebec Life Flight nurse Lance Taysom at a 2010 conference on wilderness rescue, “uncontrollable shivering will wake you up before you get too cold. When that happens, run around or do some jumping jacks or something else to warm up before trying to catch another nap.”

@Patrick Carlson, it would be nice to see this implemented in TLD.

[Pasquinel]

On July 7, 2017 at 0:53 AM, JoE Smash said:

Myth Busted:

https://www.woot.com/blog/post/the-debunker-will-sleeping-in-extreme-cold-kill-you

So if you go to bed warm, you should wake up if you get too cold. If you wake up cold, do nothing to remedy it, and go back to bed....that's on you.

Unless you alreay have hypothermia. You should warm up first, then go to bed....

Well done Joe, good clarification....

[darkwarrior22]

On 7/6/2017 at 10:57 AM, Pasquinel said:

If someone were to sleep with wet clothes on then absolutely what you say is true. However, the first rule of preventing hypothermia and frost bite is to remove wet clothes as soon as possible and get dry. You are better off sleeping dry naked in a sleeping bag than leaving on wet clothes.

However the original post made no mention of having wet clothes on, only that they slept indoors, in a bed, fully clothed. Which should have been sufficient to prevent frost bite. A dry, fully clothed person should be fairly safe sleeping indoors. A bed mattress will insulate from losing body heat to the ground and will reflect some back, the blankets and or sleeping bag along with clothing should offer significant heat retention enough to keep the tissue from freezing and protect from frostbite.

The game mechanics which are not realistic as we all know may act otherwise and we have to adjust our behavior accordingly but I think the original post brings up a fair point.

I have spent a great deal of time working outdoors in extreme cold, and done plenty of winter camping, sleeping in tents, with sleeping bag, with no fire and have not gotten frostbite.

Also being simply out of the wind is a big advantage and should not be dismissed, as it can mean the difference between life and death wet or dry.

If you are wearing dry clothes, sleeping in a bed, and are protected from the wind (which is the only thing spence homestead does) and its -50 degrees you will still get frostbite. Thats just common sense. Insulation can help a ton but still. -50 is -50 (talking in Fahrenheit).

I also think the game mechanics for cold is quite realistic, so don't lump everyone in assuming we all think it's bogus.

I personally love the frostbite mechanic as it adds a certain lasting negative consequence that previously wasn't there. Aside from death of course. I play stalker and once had a sandbox on Forlorn Muskeg which can be particularly nasty in terms of weather and temp. I only suffered perhaps a few percentage points of frostbite in the whole 70 day streak and it took place in the first few days while I struggled to settle in somewhere.

The mechanic is a serious debuff I agree, which is why I like it. It's this looming threat that must be constantly monitored and it drives up the risk reward factor to the nth degree. Stop being babies about it or play on pilgrim!

 

[Carbon]

5 hours ago, darkwarrior22 said:

Stop being babies about it or play on pilgrim!

 Welcome to the forums @darkwarrior22. No empathy for the OP?

 I agree that the current system is generally fine but not walking up after going to sleep healthy and fine is indeed something to discuss. My character suffered from frostbite once simply by not having his mitts on and going out fishing for 3 hours. Stupid, so I sucked it up but at least it didn't kill my character.

 The one thing I didn't like was the constant reminder of my error in red text every time I looked at my character stats. That was just salting the wound and annoying (having a reduced condition bar is sufficient). Now, that was in the test_branch, so I'm not sure if it is still this way (and I don't want to find out). I feel that the current implementation could be improved if one would be woken up before dying of the affliction. That does seem unfair, no?

[nicko]

Back to the the OP? frostbite?

On 5/1/2017 at 0:43 AM, michael_martin said:

Hey guys, I wanted to write because I just had a really frustrating experience on Stalker. I fell asleep in the spence family homestead, with very warm clothes on...my temperature was fine but then through the night I was afflicted twice with frostbite, yet could not wake up.

All I can think of is your had Wet clothing on?

You just need to remove them. drop them near a fire to dry them off. or just remove them.

Sleeping with wet clothes is not a good idea and will surely effect your health.

 

[Thrasador]

17 hours ago, nicko said:

Back to the the OP? frostbite?

All I can think of is your had Wet clothing on?

You just need to remove them. drop them near a fire to dry them off. or just remove them.

Sleeping with wet clothes is not a good idea and will surely effect your health.

 

He did not have wet clothes on I don't think. It just got too cold at some point in the middle of the night and got frostbite. That can actually happen in FM in the farm house...it is wide open...

If you got that cold, you would shiver violently and wake up.

The game should be tweaked in that respect, giving you the option to wake up and start a fire if it has suddenly become this cold and you were previously warm and not currently afflicted by hypothermia....

@michael_martin I agree in a way you were robbed...but now you know in FM you need a fire to sleep there until they fix the sudden freezing while sleeping mechanic...