Snowmobile

[Erkkipappers]

If we get long distanse travel to TLD I think we need old snowmobile like this.

[EricTheGreat12]

6 minutes ago, Erkkipappers said:

If we get long distanse travel to TLD I think we need old snowmobile like this.

Might be in story mode....

BUT

Might wanna think about the fact that most regions require you to go through caves, therefore the snowmobile would need to spawn in every region; even then, the last thing this game needs is a spam of these machines for the player to go places in under 30 secs (this would be cheating and remove the whole point of actually moving in this game).

 

So just like the idea of cars, this will not work.

[Erkkipappers]

1 minute ago, EricTheGreat12 said:

Might be in story mode....

BUT

Might wanna think about the fact that most regions require you to go through caves, therefore the snowmobile would need to spawn in every region; even then, the last thing this game needs is a spam of these machines for the player to go places in under 30 secs (this would be cheating and remove the whole point of actually moving in this game).

 

So just like the idea of cars, this will not work.

It would just be like from mystry lake to some storymode maps that will need about 50km travel. And its top speed in real life is 30-35kmh

[EricTheGreat12]

@Erkkipappers as I previously stated, the last thing this game needs to kill immersion is to be able to get to 2 different location in the span of 30 seconds or less. Threats such as bears and wolves will be non-existent and you won't need to worry about finding a place to stay because of course, you get back to base in less than 30 seconds.

 

Part of this game's charm is that if you cannot find man made shelter, you stay outside and survive like a real survivor would.

 

Think about it: if you could drive cars in this game, then half of the element of survival would be removed, and while we're at it the entire element of survival will be removed all together by people who abuse the benefits of staying in their car. 

[Erkkipappers]

 

4 minutes ago, EricTheGreat12 said:

@Erkkipappers as I previously stated, the last thing this game needs to kill immersion is to be able to get to 2 different location in the span of 30 seconds or less. Threats such as bears and wolves will be non-existent and you won't need to worry about finding a place to stay because of course, you get back to base in less than 30 seconds.

 

Part of this game's charm is that if you cannot find man made shelter, you stay outside and survive like a real survivor would.

 

Think about it: if you could drive cars in this game, then half of the element of survival would be removed, and while we're at it the entire element of survival will be removed all together by people who abuse the benefits of staying in their car. 

Ok maybe you are right

[AZHockeyNut]

from an immersion and charm point of view, I would not mind seeing a few, but like cars, they would be useless. Perhaps you could use them for a bit of storage or find tools/food/mittens or gloves, etc there..... there would surely be some around in that part of the world.

[shade_grey]

On 4/26/2017 at 10:35 PM, AZHockeyNut said:

from an immersion and charm point of view, I would not mind seeing a few, but like cars, they would be useless. Perhaps you could use them for a bit of storage or find tools/food/mittens or gloves, etc there..... there would surely be some around in that part of the world.

Now that I think about it, it seams a bit weird for a place with so much snow when there are no snow mobiles. Make a model with a large, 10 kg storage compartment. Give them a variety of colours. Put them in several places; inside the barn, outside of the trapper's cabin, logging camp, and signal hill just to name a few.

[Dirmagnos]

Immersion this, immersion that. A throwaway term it seems, as nobody really bothers to come up with any reasonable explanation anymore.

How about simple fact that all electronics are fried. And no, you cant fix it, as it would require replacing all electrical components.

[cekivi]

2 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

Immersion this, immersion that. A throwaway term it seems, as nobody really bothers to come up with any reasonable explanation anymore.

How about simple fact that all electronics are fried. And no, you cant fix it, as it would require replacing all electrical components.

The immersion comment above wasn't with regards to having a working snowmobile but being able to find a non functioning one that can be looted similar to the cars and trucks already in the game.

[AZHockeyNut]

1 hour ago, cekivi said:

The immersion comment above wasn't with regards to having a working snowmobile but being able to find a non functioning one that can be looted similar to the cars and trucks already in the game.

?% correct! You find trucks and cars you can use as short term shelter or to hold loot. Why not a snow machine? Surely there would be plenty on the island and they can store stuff, not tons but they do have storage so maybe you can even find some stuff in them .

 

 

[ElvisHunter]

I don't see why every transition zone needs to be a similar format. Variety is the spice of life, why not season our game as well? Using a snow machine to reach a distant area sounds both plausible and geographically appropriate. The obvious hitch is that the "event" seems to have fried all things with electrical components. But there seems to be a chance that at certain times (during the aura(s?)?) that using electronics is possible - which could add another element of difficulty (making this area only accessible during the full moon as it were). I also don't understand the assumption that this trope would be used as a "30 second" method of travel and not another perhaps challenging area of gameplay? 

[Carbon]

 Well, I for one don't want to see a snow machine in-game. Aside from the fact that it would go against the whole premise of why the situation is as it is - the underlying foundation of the game - it would require an entirely new approach to mapping. As I said in my reply to the post regarding the inclusion of skis, a map that would be suitable (or require) the use of a snow machine would not only be incompatible with the current maps but would force the player to need the machine on some, but not on the other, an incompatibility that would simply be a pain in the end. The maps currently in TLD would be traversed in seconds with a snow machine, removing any fear of wolves (you could just hit them!), bears (drive-by shots!) and even the cold in that short span.

 Another point: the sound! A snow machine ripping through the silence would be horrific.

 Finally, if yes to that, then where would that slippery slope end? If the snow machine works, then why not the cars? Then a chainsaw? A generator, so lights, radios....suddenly we are back to civilization, normality and there goes the very essence of the game.

 Not going to happen and if it did, it would be more than disappointing, it would be game-breaking.

 As another 'thing' laying around? Sure, why not? Wouldn't hold much loot, but it wouldn't be out of place to see one in a shed.

[Vulp]

  I think it would be cool to see it lying around as another source of loot and outdoor storage at places like the Lookouts, Camp office, Barn, Spence family homestead, etc, just as a little source of loot, perhaps you could find some interesting things inside, such as a flare or some candy or even a coat on the handlebars. 

And, if we are ever given the option to drag hunted animals it might be cool to take the skis off of it and build a little makeshift sled with storage and/or animal dragging capabilities, but I digress...

[Dirmagnos]

16 hours ago, Carbon said:

 Finally, if yes to that, then where would that slippery slope end? If the snow machine works, then why not the cars? Then a chainsaw? A generator, so lights, radios....suddenly we are back to civilization, normality and there goes the very essence of the game.

Everything is broken but everything is working. Because, well, magic.

Millions of shielded nanobots, that were meant to take over the Earth at behest of their master, SkyNet, now got glitched, so they roam the world, finding new purpose in life of fixing fried electrical circuits.

Also, at the end of that story you wake up, get congratulated on successfully completing your treatment circle with help of highly experimental technique and allowed home after spending 11 years at mental institution in catatonic state. Its like mix between Shutter Island, Inception and Matrix. Cool, huh !

[Carbon]

 So much for any surprise with the update. Nanobot invasion...humanity battling robots...who didn't see that coming.

[EricTheGreat12]

On 2017-04-30 at 4:58 PM, ElvisHunter said:

I don't see why every transition zone needs to be a similar format. Variety is the spice of life, why not season our game as well? Using a snow machine to reach a distant area sounds both plausible and geographically appropriate. The obvious hitch is that the "event" seems to have fried all things with electrical components. But there seems to be a chance that at certain times (during the aura(s?)?) that using electronics is possible - which could add another element of difficulty (making this area only accessible during the full moon as it were). I also don't understand the assumption that this trope would be used as a "30 second" method of travel and not another perhaps challenging area of gameplay? 

I really struggle to understand how driving away from danger is "challenging" in any way whatsoever....

 

If we let snowmobile be driveable, that'll mean cars could function as well; the last thing this game needs are pointless functional cars. 

[ElvisHunter]

2 hours ago, EricTheGreat12 said:

I really struggle to understand how driving away from danger is "challenging" in any way whatsoever....

I assumed the danger was ubiquitous, making geography and transport somewhat moot in terms of danger.  How does a proposed new form of transition reduce the danger? It could in fact add new dangers i.e. driving off an icy bridge or running out of fuel. 

[Pillock]

16 minutes ago, ElvisHunter said:

I assumed the danger was ubiquitous, making geography and transport somewhat moot in terms of danger.  How does a proposed new form of transition reduce the danger? It could in fact add new dangers i.e. driving off an icy bridge or running out of fuel. 

The main problem I foresee with any type of drivable vehicle, skis or sleds is this: They would require a whole raft of new physics to be added to the game - there is no friction in the game as of now, no momentum, not much collision detection, no deformable scenery, etc. It would be take a massive amount of work to get it functioning in a believable way, for very, very little gain in terms of gameplay. The game doesn't need it and it's not worth the effort.

I would never say never but I shouldn't think it'd be any time soon, and there are so many other things that would be better suited to the scenario and far easier to implement, that I don't think changing the way the character moves around is even worth thinking about, really.

[Timber Wolf]

8 hours ago, Pillock said:

It would be take a massive amount of work to get it functioning in a believable way, for very, very little gain in terms of gameplay. The game doesn't need it and it's not worth the effort.

I would never say never but I shouldn't think it'd be any time soon, and there are so many other things that would be better suited to the scenario and far easier to implement, that I don't think changing the way the character moves around is even worth thinking about, really.

I completely agree.

[Carbon]

8 hours ago, ElvisHunter said:

I assumed the danger was ubiquitous, making geography and transport somewhat moot in terms of danger.  How does a proposed new form of transition reduce the danger? It could in fact add new dangers i.e. driving off an icy bridge or running out of fuel. 

 Danger is ubiquitous but not consistent in how it presents itself. Distance is the primary and most uniform danger and anything that reduces the time it correlates to is a removal of a significant aspect of the game.

[cekivi]

9 hours ago, ElvisHunter said:

I assumed the danger was ubiquitous, making geography and transport somewhat moot in terms of danger.  How does a proposed new form of transition reduce the danger? It could in fact add new dangers i.e. driving off an icy bridge or running out of fuel. 

Like @Carbon said a lot of the danger presently in the game is due to the distances between safe havens and the time it takes to reach them. Having a fast form of transport would negate that. If you were really crazy you could, for instance, go all around the island: snowmobiles can go fast enough to hydroplane across water. Then there would be no real challenge as far as navigating the interior is concerned. Just head out and race around every obstacle.

Personally, I would still like to see snowmobiles in the game (particularly beside one or two ice fishing huts) but only as set dressing/low loot containers.

[ElvisHunter]

1 hour ago, Carbon said:

 Danger is ubiquitous but not consistent in how it presents itself. Distance is the primary and most uniform danger and anything that reduces the time it correlates to is a removal of a significant aspect of the game.

I personally disagree with distance being a large factor in difficulty. Vast distances can be covered in this game on foot and in short order. See hopeless rescue speed runs for evidence. 

@cekivi I agree that just plopping a working snow machine into the current game world would be unacceptable.  I saw this proposal originally as an alternate and varied form of zone transition and not a mount which you could take anywhere. 

Also considering the long term road map goals of long distance travel, canoe, and horse I really feel this is a fitting suggestion worth consideration.  

[Carbon]

15 minutes ago, ElvisHunter said:

I personally disagree with distance being a large factor in difficulty. Vast distances can be covered in this game on foot and in short order. See hopeless rescue speed runs for evidence.

 Not sure you can disagree with a fact. I mean, you can, but it makes no real sense to do so. I need no evidence to know that distances can be traveled, nor about the speed at which this may be accomplished; it is the game as it stands and I've played it. The point is that distances unalterably exist and within them also exists time and the elements that one is subjected to in the duration of coverage. To argue that distance - and all that it correlates to: time and environmental affectation - isn't a clear and constant danger in TLD is like arguing that the sun isn't the prime danger in a desert. Ask anyone who has died in a blizzard or succumbed to the temperatures while getting from A to B; distance is factually the most uniformly ineradicable danger in the game. That it doesn't always kill a player isn't an argument that supports it being benign.

[cekivi]

The other main problem I have with a functioning snowmobile is that it would invoke the image of a certain infamous YouTube video.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/bearchase.asp

I linked to the Snopes article since the video is fake and it has some neat facts on bears. A human can't outrun a bear or wolf but, as alluded to above, you certainly can on a snowmobile. Even an older model can still hit speeds great enough to outrun most furry dangers on the associated maps. Add to the fact that you could hydroplane if you went through weak ice provided you're going fast enough (possible but not recommended in real life) and you can easily avoid the game's largest threat to your continued survival.

While it may be neat to have a snowmobile just to traverse to a new area (and thus not use it on the maps) it would lead to the big question why not use it everywhere if it works?  

[ElvisHunter]

I didn't say it was not a factor. I said it wasn't a large one. I agree that distance generally increases exposure to the actual dangers of the game (wolfs, cold, injury and so on) but what has been proposed wouldn't eliminate any of that.