Countdown

[Docterrok]

2 minutes ago, Bleys said:

The problem is their actions, and the decidedly different approach they took to this update at a time where there was strong reasonable expectation for an update with significance.

They played with the expectations of their loyal player base and used shitty marketing tactics to try to build hype without any information. And closed their eyes at any feedback that was coming in on a regular basis, presumably in the interest of making more sales. And after it blows up in their face, taking the "I'm falling on my sword - don't blame others, blame me" as a way to try to make you feel better.

No. You know what you did. You did it on purpose. Don't expect forgiveness from a community you treated poorly. If you want to fix what you did, do something more meaningful than a fake apology.

Whoa, keep in mind they promised NOTHING, you expected something way more than that it seems.

[Docterrok]

1 hour ago, WearableBeef40 said:

I love the game. I love the trailer. I will play the game and will buy all the episodes.

The problem I'm having today, and the problem I think a lot of us are having, is that this was ridiculously avoidable. You guys read these forums and post on them a lot. You must have had a sense from this thread alone as to how excited we all were. "Are they gonna add the moose?". "Is it an update?", "it better not be a countdown to a countdown"

You say that you listen to us, but there's no point in that if you don't hear what we're saying. All that needed to happen was for one of you reading this to think, "these guys are really amped for the countdown, maybe we might just need to temper that a little or there might be a problem.."

The people who are on this forum are the guys and girls that bought your game. They love your game and are invested in it's progress. I don't agree with the negative reviews on Steam, but people are frustrated. We get that you guys are new to this, but we have been telling you what we've been expecting.  It's OK for you guys to mess up, but the point of these forums is that you get the chance to avoid a lot of them. The answers to a lot of the problems are here. in the community. We've put our faith in you, you chaps need to put your faith in us. 

I really do love the game 

Some ideas might not get added for balancing reasons. Like... spears *sniff*

[Docterrok]

37 minutes ago, Bleys said:

There was lots of support over the past four weeks during the timer. And the past two years, after repeated promises that went unfulfilled.

There's a time to be supportive and a time to stand up for yourself when someone's trying to walk all over you. This is when the community should stand up after the developer wipes its work boots on your back.

Well, that seems harsh, they didn't promise anything...

[Docterrok]

38 minutes ago, Loppysaurusrex said:

I have no doubt that this was intentional to get people to buy the game before the stupid countdown timer finished making people think the game was going to come out of early access and be released at full price, so in essence, Hinterland scammed steam buyers.  I cannot believe this community is filled with people defending such a deplorable move.

That's unfair, they didn't even do anything, they just gave us a timer for something. This game is under wraps all the time, it's rare that stuff like this happens, we got a defined release date! I'm pretty damn happy about that.

[Docterrok]

24 minutes ago, Loppysaurusrex said:

You just going to pretend that whole countdown didn't happen?  

It did happen, and we got something from it, a tangible date and a pretty cool trailer.

[Bleys]

7 minutes ago, Docterrok said:

Well, that seems harsh, they didn't promise anything...

You don't seem to understand what they did. The whole point of a countdown timer was to build hype on the expectation of it being different from the status quo. The fact that they said nothing is EXACTLY why so many people are upset. They used a shitty tactic playing off of people's expectations from the past two and a half years in a way that implied something big. And failed to deliver.

They don't need to have promised anything for this to be the huge mistake and middle finger to the community that is was. But you don't seem to understand what their actions actually meant, and if you don't have the ability to read between the lines, that's your issue, not mine. And to be honest, I'm not going to spend the time to try to explain it further. I'm sure you can find someone else who can explain the reason so many people are upset. Better yet, read all the comments and take some time to put some thought into why so many people are upset on what could easily have been a day that everyone was excited about.

[Ohbal]

Oh my, it has taken me a few hours to process not only the new info, but the shitstorm in the forums. 

I'm on the dissapointed side as well, but some of you could use a bit of meditation or boxing to release all that anger . Remember it's just a game folks!

I was planning to write a longer post. But in the end, the below quote from @Raphael van Lierop just made me breath deeply and forgive the horrendous timer idea. 

Quote

I can see that we've lost some community good will, which goes against every intention we've had over the past years. I'll do everything I can to earn it back. If I could go back and do this again, I wouldn't use the countdown to try to build anticipation for the release date announcement, the new trailer, and the news about what's in the next update (coming to the Test Branch in a few weeks).

I' with @TWM and @June though... how could you not seen this coming? We have been beting on this forums for the last three weeks dudes! You had thrown us, old dogs, a small bone to calm the crowds (and I mean letting your community know the countdown wouldn't mean new gameplay, which is what we are here for in the end). 

My two cents for the future:

1. Don't over hype your community.

2. It wouldn't hurt to review the roadmap and clarify what's being builded and what's aspirational.

2b. A roadmap without regular updates is useless, or worst, cause it leads to more unnecessary hype. The original roadmap was posted 13 months ago:

Aspirational or not, most of the items in the 1-6 months window are getting a bit old...  and a year has passed. It just doesn't look good!

Anyway, the trailer looks great.  

PS: I've seen an army of people pissed today here... Am I the only one pissed for losing their characters with 1.0? My dude has been alive for almost 400 days... I guess he will  fade into the long dark before his time  

[Piggy]

29 minutes ago, Loppysaurusrex said:

You just going to pretend that whole countdown didn't happen?  

What I was asking is where did you get the impression the story mode and a bunch of new content was being released today because Hinterland never stated anything to that effect. The hype was pure speculation by forum members....

[Docterrok]

4 minutes ago, Bleys said:

You don't seem to understand what they did. The whole point of a countdown timer was to build hype on the expectation of it being different from the status quo. The fact that they said nothing is EXACTLY why so many people are upset. They used a shitty tactic playing off of people's expectations from the past two and a half years in a way that implied something big. And failed to deliver.

They don't need to have promised anything for this to be the huge mistake and middle finger to the community that is was. But you don't seem to understand what their actions actually meant, and if you don't have the ability to read between the lines, that's your issue, not mine. And to be honest, I'm not going to spend the time to try to explain it further. I'm sure you can find someone else who can explain the reason so many people are upset. Better yet, read all the comments and take some time to put some thought into why so many people are upset on what could easily have been a day that everyone was excited about.

Oi, I understand full well why your upset, you lack patience and respect. They are working damn hard and wanted to give us a little taste of what's to come. 

[Bleys]

Just now, Docterrok said:

Oi, I understand full well why your upset, you lack patience and respect. They are working damn hard and wanted to give us a little taste of what's to come. 

No, you don't. Thanks for playing, though. Better luck next time.

[Docterrok]

Just now, Bleys said:

No, you don't. Thanks for playing, though. Better luck next time.

I don't understand your anger, they gave us something, what's the problem?

[cekivi]

5 minutes ago, Ohbal said:

PS: I've seen an army of people pissed today here... Am I the only one pissed for losing their characters with 1.0? My dude has been alive for almost 400 days... I guess he will  fade into the long dark before his time  

I'm also sad about that. My survivor in Mystery Lake with Pumpkin Pies will just fade into the Long Dark in the end I guess. I think I'll turn off auto-updates and have one last walk with them before letting them go. I even have a corrupted save from 2015 that I just can't quite delete since it was my first 200 day+ playthrough  

[Ohbal]

9 minutes ago, cekivi said:

I'm also sad about that. My survivor in Mystery Lake with Pumpkin Pies will just fade into the Long Dark in the end I guess. I think I'll turn off auto-updates and have one last walk with them before letting them go. I even have a corrupted save from 2015 that I just can't quite delete since it was my first 200 day+ playthrough  

Yeah... I'll have a last walk with my character, and soon, cause I want to have a look to the cartographer update in test build to lend a last hand... I have the feeling Hinterland may have lost some of their testing army(although you never know with the internet, it may go the other way around )

[TWM]

48 minutes ago, Loppysaurusrex said:

It's not a scam in that they won't get their money's worth, it's a scam in that they duped people into thinking it was going to release and all the people who were curious about the game went out and bought it only to be slapped in the face with a 3 month waiting time.

I guess that's one way of looking at it.

Having been engaged with this game since early 2015, seeing it grow, gives me a somewhat different perspective, I guess.

See, I don't think that Van Lierop and his team are in it for the money, let alone a quick cash grab. That would be like saying Ridley Scott makes movies like Alien, Blade Runner or even Prometheus (which I consider to be flawed) to make money.

With creative directors like these, it's never about the money, it's about realising their vision. All focus is on getting it 'just right'.

In the case of Van Lierop, this comes at the expense of being attuned to where the community is at; what it needs in terms of reassurance or caution.

Thus you find the same communicative disconnect re-emerging from time to time. The current flub is but the latest illustration.

[fearofspam]

1 hour ago, Docterrok said:

Whoa, keep in mind they promised NOTHING, you expected something way more than that it seems.

Nobody is upset that we didn't get something that was promised.  We're upset because we have been deliberately mislead.  For years updates to sandbox and story mode announcements just happened.  Then we go silent for months and get this weird countdown.  Now if this was a game that launched a countdown for every bug fix that would be one thing, but this is the first time they've done anything like this, so people were expecting something exciting.  Not simply another announcement.  

People don't feel like they were PROMISED story mode today or a sandbox update today, they feel like they were mislead led into believing something significant was going to happen.  All so that Hinterland (and their forum fanboys) can sit back and laugh at all the fools who thought they were getting something.  Basically we were hyped up so that Hinterland and people like you can sit back and say, "Why you mad?  We didn't promise anything. LOL".  

[romerabr]

3 hours ago, RossBondReturns said:

I may not be as long-time as some of you. But as far as I'm concerned this update is total quality. The new website looks fantastic. The video and new game play look excellent and I'm getting a new sandbox to play in soon too! Not only that but it's going to PS4 and an August Release for Story Mode. 

Perhaps I don't get what I'm supposed to be complaining about.

I like this game. I really do. I have more than 400 hours , and I bought it on xbox and steam. I respect he studio and the people who work there.

I like your stories and respect you for what you do and what you write. You have the right to be happy with this announcement.

But please, respect who thinks different, sarcasm is not necessary.We have he righ to dissagree.

That said, I hope to be respected too, and all the people who express their feelings about what happened today. I'm really dissapointed, and i think all of this countdown was pointless. This is my opinion, and his is why a forum was created.

 

[ElvisHunter]

Now I've been banned from the steam forums for posting the very same thing I've posted here. The counter was an awful thing to do to the community, do not compound it with suppression of our freedom to express criticism. @Patrick Carlson

[Karl Grylls]

4 hours ago, TWM said:

What befuddles me is that you guys - the community engagement officers I mean - could've seen this frustration coming for weeks on end and did little to nothing to prevent it.

This.

 

Raph said they they're seeing this. And they did nothing. The Question is: why? Maybe the answer has already been given some pages before.

6 hours ago, Mugger said:

Stupid counter idea,

 

Unfortunately this will probably affect their credibility,

 

A lot of people will question anything they say from now on

 

This.

This will be the biggest damage for them AND their game. From now on, everything they say comes with an off-taste. Story Mode will come on August 1st, but how much of it? Moose, cooking and cougar are not in it and i start to ask why? In the video the moose loked like nearly ready for the game. People will start to ask bad questions like "why did they teased it? Did they want to make believe the players that it will come soon in order to keep them (us) by line?" I don't say they are that malicious, but the naked facts are speaking a language.

4 hours ago, Patrick Carlson said:

We're sorry you feel that way. Even if you don't see it now, or ever (which is fine, too), this is a huge day for the game and its development. We are launching on August 1. No more delays or mystery surrounding Story Mode -- it's coming. The community is a part of this -- (moving carcasses are coming, we're bringing back the throwing mechanic!)  

That being said -- we understand your frustration with how we chose to share this news. We've definitely taken that on-board this morning. 

As said before, the dev's credibility has been damaged.

And what am i (and many others) thinking of Raph don't show up himself and giving a speech? This is hiding, i believe. Here in Germany, Angela Merkel is doing the same. When talking about highly controverse decisions, she never come out by herself. Her government spokesman has to do it for her. The way you (the devs) deal with the reactions is not enough. Someone before nailed it: "Yes we see your disappointment but look our new trailer..". It must come a much more than this. The best would be a long Post by Raph himself or maybe a little video.

Two other things: Yes the new HUD looks terrible indeed. It's good that you improved the functionality and stuff (is the decoy now on the first page of radial menu or are we still forced to click us trough it? That's not intelligent in case of an attack). But the look. These tattered edges are really not beautiful. The menu looked so mature before, i always loved it. And the other things too: Symbols for Hunger, Cold, Thirst, Fatigue were perfect! Your philisophy of keeping written reports out of the game and changing them to symbols: Just great. They were looking so mature, so adult. You take them serious just by seeing them. And now that ;(

The next thing: Players, please stop downvote TLD on Steam. Their countdown was the worst thing they could do, but it doesn't afflect the actual game. Downvoting only leeds to the case, that less people will buy this game. This causes, that Hinterland will make less money. And they need money to improve the game, to enrich it. With more money they have more time to do it. And you see how much time it takes to bring the moose in. So please don't let your aggressions and dissapointment control you

[Jytton Lames]

I've been posting on this topic pre-fiasco so I just want to sign off with this. OK, they screwed up big time. But Raphael just put his hands up and apologised, said he'd do it differently if he could go back. So that's that for me. Now I want to find a thread to moan about the new interface - a little heart and no numbers for health?

Well, they increased forum activity at any rate..

[Cantousent]

I would like to take this opportunity to express my desire for brewing/distilling in the game.  This thread, by itself, shows how valuable a little brew could be in a post apocalyptic world.  With this very thread as the example, I urge the developers to patch in brewing/distilling as a hotfix *today!*

[KlabauterMann]

7 hours ago, KlabauterMann said:

I didn`t really believe in the storymode today but I am kind of disappointed now :-(

After a few hours of livestreaming (Blizzard-Challenge), I see it more differenciated. Here is what I wrote about my experience with the countdown and this evening:

http://klabautermannlp.info/2017/05/05/countdown-abgelaufen-geheimnis-zu-the-long-dark-1-0-gelueftet/

(just in German at the moment but google translte should do its job)

[mystifeid]

Wow. Glad I wasn't expecting anything. In all of this thread perhaps one word mentioned in a post sums up this controversy.

Disingenuous.

An apology has been issued. Is the sincerity real? Feel free to judge. But if you do like this game, be careful. Negative actions may have the potential to affect the future development of the game you all seem to cherish.

In the meantime there are plenty of other games out there. Lately I've been playing another (quite amazing) EA game: Subnautica. Pretty refreshing that the experimental branch gets updated every day.

[Bobfrid]

Quote

All day a bunch of frustrated, but poorly behaved people said things like:

• You promised us stuff and we didn't get it! I HATE YOU!
• I don't accept your apology, deliver content instantly and maybe I'll forgive you.
• Why doesn't someone come out and face us? We're internet tough!
• I've been playing since <date> and I deserve <whatever>.
• Ok, maybe you didn't promise anything, but I feel like you did.

Garbage similar to the above is why I usually don't bother with forums. Many are disappointed that the countdown didn't end with story mode or a sandbox update today. Understandable, I was disappointed myself. But cheese and rice, could y'all conduct yourselves with a flippin' shred of dignity?

It's equivalent to my 3 year old nephew throw a tantrum because the present he just unwrapped wasn't what he wanted. 

Up until today I've found these forums to be mostly a decent place to read what others thought, experienced, suggested, etc about the game and occasionally offer an opinion, bug report, or suggestion working around a technical issue. Today's "outrage" in response to being disappointed at imagined rewards at the end of a countdown is embarrassing. The personal attacks on Hinterland's personnel are deplorable and the perceived slights to the early access adopters indicate a break from reality. Those pointing out the irrationality of said attacks are labeled "fanboys".

Imagine conducting yourself in such a manner when dealing with an employer or a family member. Wouldn't you be mortified to be in front of a boss or parent shrieking, "I hate you!", like Anakin Skywalker when he had his arm and legs taken off by Obi-wan? That's exactly what all this sounded like.

Just for a little perspective: Since getting the game in 2015 there have been multiple major updates to the way the game plays. Each of the updates I've been around for have had near-immediate bug fixes for the PC and Xbox releases were delivered as soon as they cleared Microsoft's testing. Hinterland has engaged the community for feedback, suggestions, bug reports, and opened a test branch. There are several "AAA" titles I've played where neither the developer nor the producer has had an interest in community feedback or suggestions and have released badly bugged updates that have lingered for months. Those "AAA" titles also cost three times as much.

Was the countdown a bit disappointing to what you were hoping for? Perhaps, depending on what your hopes were. Was the frankly ridiculous wave of whiny angst unleashed against the people at Hinterland undeserved? Absolutely. It is possible, even on the internet, to express displeasure (and even justify it!) without resorting to personal attacks, childish foot stomping, and going completely mental and assuming that your disappointment was an attack on you. 

To those of you who were able to conduct yourselves well, disappointed or not, thank you. One hopes in the short three months between now and release, some others might learn from you.

 

 

 

[Loppysaurusrex]

3 hours ago, Docterrok said:

Whoa, keep in mind they promised NOTHING, you expected something way more than that it seems.

You seem to be shilling out for Hinterland, I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you as it's likely akin to bashing my head against a brick wall.

 

I'll leave you with a question, don't even bother replying as I won't read it: If there is a massive community outrage, does that mean that the community is stupid? Or does it mean that Hinterland is terrible at communication? 

[Mr.Zim]

So after cooling down and having a night of bad sleep (due to other stuff) my respect for the devs are back and I wasn't expecting story mode but a timer for a timer NO! I still feel used during these countdown weeks.... Now to what I'm thankfull over instead.

Story mode date, GLORIUS! I did not expect that to happen this year even. (trust issue here thou)
New UI and HUD looks cool and I want to try it out ofc!
The in-game world graphics and set details seems to be a LOT more than what it is today, in only a good and more realistic way.
All 5 episodes included in EA price, NICE! I only thought 1-2 would be free for us.

What I have gotten for my 20 bucks spent on the game I'm happy with and having ALL 5 episodes for that price is a bonus thou well earned after this countdown set back, I think its a setback after lurking the forums both here and on steam given all the frustation and I think many lost their trust and thats what they are butthurt over if they would meditate and find the reason. Dissapointment comes from expectations, and Hinterland did build a lot of expectation without promises (important to remember we wasnt promised ANYTHING with the counter)
 

Please Hinterland keep your wishlist to yourself and give us a list of what you ARE developing in the game as this seems to be very misleading for more than half the community from my point of view. Something doesn't work at the day you want to ship it in testbranch, well just make a statement on it with the testbranch info that always comes. We have a lot of love and are willing wait but to raise and drop expectations like this with the previous fails on release date and all is bad. I'm glad you are taking your time to make good game instead of rushing it.

The trailer is really cool!