Lost in the mist and other adventures.


Wizard70

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My wish list.

1:  Compass to be found on a frozen corpse or in one of the forestry towers.

2: Crafted spear using a knife as the spear tip.

3: More crafted traps. For Wolves as well as Bears.

4: A toggled walk key as in Fallout games. Please save my keyboard walk key from flatness.

5: Crafted clothing need better incentives to be worn and be lighter. Wolf Skin Jacket gives some sort of advantage avoiding or combating Wolves. Bear Skin Coat the same against Bears. Deer Skin stuff could allow a closer upright approach before scaring the Deer when bow hunting. And what the hell do I do with all these skin? My cabin smells like wet dogs and rabbits with a hint of bear.

6: Crouch speed is to slow could be a little faster as is movement speed into light wind.

7: Food, water and calorie use. I find myself in a constant cycle of light fire, cook food, boil water, eat, drink, sleep rinse and repeat. Having to eat 2+ Kilograms of meat per sitting is just insane as is drowning yourself in a a couple of liters of water every day. Calorie consumption is as fast when at rest or even sleeping as it is under exertion. A bit of tuning would be great.

Thanks for an all the work so far I am totally absorbed and cannot wait for story mode.

 

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Okay, I'll try to answer all of these.

1 - A compass wouldn't work, because of the 'geo-magnetic disaster' which happened prior to the game. 

2 - This is a pretty good idea.

3 - Yep. Good idea.

4 - YES. I need this.

5 - Crafted clothing all give high amounts of protection, allowing you to take much less damage from predator attacks. Also, both wolfskin and bearskin coats can scare away wolves. While crafted clothing is heavy, they are definitely already very useful.

6 - Maybe. 

7 - HINT : Try conserving food. Starving does damage very slowly, and you can regain condition very quickly with rest.

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1. Yes, definitely. @Sharky  Dont even start, i fought a hundred battles on this topic and i have won them all.

2. Yes. Spear is a one of the most basic tools that one can make. With ability to throw them for a short range. Im still waiting on ability to collect obsidian and craft it.

3. Wolves, sure. Bears, highly unlikely. We cant exactly dig a bear hole or make a proper bear trap from scrap metal.

4. Most definitely.

5. Id prefer to have higher carry capacity, 30 kilos is ridiculous. Especially since it includes worn items.

6. Could be skill related/trainable.

7. Whole hunger part is extremely off. On one side player has to consume extreme amount of food to be "well". Then there is spoilage issue. And on top of that critical exploit that allows player to live off like 600 calories a day, that is simply ridiculous. That further feeds in into nonexisting condition management feature. And amount of meat harvestable form animals.

Whole needs part of the game could use huge overhaul. Right now its neither realistic, nor balanced. And then there is parasites and skills that affect needs balancing...

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Thanks both for replies on my wish list

@Sharky A geomagnetic storm is caused my extreme solar activity and is not permanent and would have no effect on the poles at all but even if the storm did effect the poles a you could calibrate the compass using the rising and setting sun or moon. It is just to give a basic indication of direction when no landmarks are visible in mist or a snow storm.

I have also done a play through wearing just the crafted clothing and found no difference at all when wolf or bear aggression is concerned. It did afford some extra protection but then repairing the damage to the clothing itself is another matter. My view is this. It is extremely hazardous to collect all the skins required, the crafting takes forever and it weighs about just as much as you can carry for very little reward for the effort. So mine stay in the locker and I use scavenged clothing that affords me better protection in all areas and weighs a third of the crafted clothing.

Having to consume 3Kg of meat for a daily calorie requirement is just unbalanced.

Just a tip to keep harvested food longer. Do not store raw meat or fish indoors. The outdoors are a natural freezer and raw food will keep 4 times longer before it is too spoiled to use.

 

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I am aware that a magnetic storm is a solar flare, which probably wouldn't affect the Earth's magnetic field. However, the game only states that a geomagnetic disaster has occurred. This could possibly refer to a magnetic pole reversal. Plus, it is evident ingame that this is not a simple, run-of-the-mill magnetic storm. There are several unforeseen, interesting effects of this disaster. Just look at the strange behaviour of the wildlife, and even the humans. For example, the idiots who were freezing to death, and decided to spend their last moments locking an empty safe! I mean, really? What kind of person would do that?

In the end, this is just a game, and it doesn't have to be completely realistic. I assure you, many people have suggested the inclusion of a compass before on these forums, and the answer has always been no. Regardless of the realistic reason why they 'wouldn't work', a compass would probably just be too overpowered - after all, you're SUPPOSED to get lost in blizzards (it's all part of the fun!). If you really need some navigation help in fog and snowstorms, try making your own simple markers, by dropping unneeded items such as tinder, and placing them (using Right-Click, on PC) to form lines and arrows. 

About the crafted clothing, they only have a tiny chance to scare away predators, but the protection is still quite good. Personally, I do feel like they weigh a little too much, and I don't use them that often, but in my opinion, they're more of a end-game last resort for avoiding frostbite, rather than a viable clothing option.

Finally, yes, the calorie system does need some MAJOR balancing. Until then, exploits for the win! :D

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Yeah I do mark my routes by simply starting a fire with one stick. I found the tinder pieces where not visible until almost right on top of them so the burned out fire is location marker visible from much further away and tinder direction indicator up close. Even with them getting lost and walking in circles is common in mist or snow storm without visual landmarks. I do not get caught out often, I watch the birds very closely but it does still happen.

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Fine!

Yes, what little info was give refers to certain EM event that screwed electronics, presumably worldwide. Fried everything.

Now why it would not affect compass.

Solar flare. As already mentioned solar flares, while interfering with Earths em fields are not strong enough to scramble it completely. Any solar event of sufficient magnitude to do so will kill everything living on the surface. Any event of sufficient magnitude to interfere with compass work to affect it effectiveness to a small degree would have numerous side effects. Like Carrington Events, that light up skies all across Northern Hemisphere by producing auroras with light intensity comparable to daylight.

Most importantly, as was already mentioned, solar flares are not persistent events, they come and go. And while starts tend to change their composition, it doesnt happen overnight.

Magnetic pole reversal. First of all, magnetic poles move all the time, in last hundred years they have wandered for hundreds of kilometers. Its natural. And while magnetic pole reversal is a thing, it take tens of thousands of years to happen. Even "fast" ones take hundreds of years. Earth is not a 8-ball that can be shaken and give different result every time. Overnight major shifts, not to mention reversal, are physically impossible.

If we take current working theory that Earth magnetic field is a product of rotation of its liquid outer core, that presumably consists out of iron and nickel, then it doesnt make any sense that it could suddenly change direction or reverse altogether. After all, its a shitton of heavy, even tho liquid, metal. It cant just stop.

I love movies like The Core, but from scientific standpoint they are complete and utter rubbish.

About "fun" and "realism". Why there cant be a compass, but players can build friggin pathways out of stick or burned out fires ? Much "fun", id qualify it as gamebreaking bug, especially considering this statement about fog - compass is apparently bad, but building trails out of immovable and eternal sticks is so much better in terms of both realism and gameplay. Give me an effin break.

There is no realistic reason why compass would not work. At least i havent seen one so far. Nor i have seen any good reason(pretty much all of them are either silly or from same category as various exploits, that are apparently ok) why it would be bad for the game.

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Welcome to the forums @Wizard70 ^_^

Compasses remain a contentious issue. I don't think we'll ever see them added though for one simple reason: isolation is a core aspect of the game. Having any direction finding aid would reduce that isolation since you can now navigate via bearing instead of via the world.

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21 hours ago, cekivi said:

Compasses remain a contentious issue. I don't think we'll ever see them added though for one simple reason: isolation is a core aspect of the game. Having any direction finding aid would reduce that isolation since you can now navigate via bearing instead of via the world.

By your definition having any landmarks or trails(like roads) is "breaking isolation".

Isolation is generally defined as condition of being alone, and feeling of loneliness. Having means to navigate the world have no connection to it from any standpoint.

Also, navigating via world is the same thing as navigating via bearing. Having maps and compass would at least make far more sense than this crap with building trails with burned out campfires or sticks, that are completely bonkers.

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I should have clarified that I meant situations where you're lost (e.g. poor weather). If I know there is a N-S road for instance I can always find my way provided I can take a bearing. Without a bearing you can get lost going in circles until the elements claim you.

For instance, I once started a Voyager (maybe Stalker?) game and got dropped into a Blizzard with 2 hours until dawn. That was tense! I've had blizzards send me off course more than a few times and that lost, isolated feeling is, I think, integral to the game.

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2 hours ago, cekivi said:

I should have clarified that I meant situations where you're lost (e.g. poor weather). If I know there is a N-S road for instance I can always find my way provided I can take a bearing. Without a bearing you can get lost going in circles until the elements claim you.

For instance, I once started a Voyager (maybe Stalker?) game and got dropped into a Blizzard with 2 hours until dawn. That was tense! I've had blizzards send me off course more than a few times and that lost, isolated feeling is, I think, integral to the game.

 

Could not agree more. With the maps as they currently exist, it would be all but impossible to get lost if you had a compass. I mean seriously, that's why people want one. So they don't get lost.

 

I also wish that sticks, burnt out fires or any other item left as a trail would be blown over by the snow. Dirmagnos is right in that regard.

 

Surviving the hardship is fun only if there really is hardship.

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Yes I suppose you are right about wanting a compass when lost. Having one would still not be a given that you find your way around the environment. Basically in mist or a blizzard sense of direction without  visible landmarks which are your normal direction finders compass or not are non existent.

Walking off in the opposite direction with minimal visibility leads to more exposure deaths not only in the game but in real life.

My take on it is that you are in a wilderness environment and anybody out there would more often than not have a compass in their kit.

As for fire and stick markers being blown away I do agree with you and at the same time would like to see injured animal blood and tracks remain a bit longer when there is no snow. I have tracked injured animals by blood trail only to lose them a few hundred yards into the track and I hate losing arrows because of it.

 

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On 4/13/2017 at 11:43 PM, cekivi said:

I should have clarified that I meant situations where you're lost (e.g. poor weather). If I know there is a N-S road for instance I can always find my way provided I can take a bearing. Without a bearing you can get lost going in circles until the elements claim you.

 

On 4/14/2017 at 2:07 AM, Lovehandel said:

I also wish that sticks, burnt out fires or any other item left as a trail would be blown over by the snow. Dirmagnos is right in that regard.

That was exactly my point. Currently once player drops/creates anything in the world, it stays there forever(something that is particularly stupid, as there is no way to destroy/recycle junk, just to drop it, meaning that all that crap is staying loaded in game memory without any practical use for it). I can drop cattail or stick and watch it staying there, open to all winds, in the middle of a friggin blizzard with storm-level winds.

I intentionally do not use that crap and i do get lost in the fog or blizzard on occasion, resulting in me somehow ending up on opposite side of the map of where i was heading, while walking in "straight" line.

And yeah, i still like idea of compass, as while it shows direction, it doesnt point player to exact locations. Would be nice to have with option of wind affecting player movement direction, shifting it left/right every now and then.

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9 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

 

That was exactly my point. Currently once player drops/creates anything in the world, it stays there forever(something that is particularly stupid, as there is no way to destroy/recycle junk, just to drop it, meaning that all that crap is staying loaded in game memory without any practical use for it). I can drop cattail or stick and watch it staying there, open to all winds, in the middle of a friggin blizzard with storm-level winds.

My assumption is that if this was changed pre-placed items in the world (e.g. knives found by some corpses) would also get moved/buried before the player could find them. This isn't necessarily a bad thing (especially on interloper) but it should either be very slow or only affect player placed items.

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At first, the game is intimidating; you don't know the landmarks. If you are in the woods in Mystery Lake, in a storm, it is very easy to get lost. You can go to the top of a hill and look for things you recognize. You need to acquire your bush sense. That is remembering the features of the land as you walk through it. Always look for those broken trees; they are important landmarks no matter where you go.

Pretty soon, you will discover railroad tracks. After that you will learn where things are relative to the railroad tracks.

In Mystery Lake, if you go to the end of the railroad tracks in one direction, you come to a tunnel. That tunnel is either by the Carter Dam or it is the tunnel to Forlorn Muskeg. If you bear right from than tunnel and follow the hills on your left (you cannot climb them) you will eventually come to a great place to camp. You will soon recognize this.

There is no way around it; you have to explore. You have to learn your bush sense of where things are. You can always use a map but there is no map for a reason. In the bush, you won't have one. Not unless you make it yourself. That is part of the experience of being in the bush.

You are going to die frequently. The more you die, the more you will learn. Each time you die, you should learn an important lesson.

If you are the impatient type, you can always get tips from other players or from YouTube. I think you will like the game best if you do it all on your own. Of course you will get stuck eventually or lost in a tunnel or cave system. There is always a way to figure out where to go in a cave and it's a little bit like Hansel and Gretel ;-) (leave a trail of clues)

 

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5 hours ago, SteveP said:

You are going to die frequently. The more you die, the more you will learn. Each time you die, you should learn an important lesson.

I am at University level when it comes to dying. I have found out the hard way to do everything in increments, harvest one thing at a time, sleep 1hour at a time when outdoor, check the temp before chopping wood and don't mess with the Bears.9_9

 

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13 hours ago, cekivi said:

My assumption is that if this was changed pre-placed items in the world (e.g. knives found by some corpses) would also get moved/buried before the player could find them. This isn't necessarily a bad thing (especially on interloper) but it should either be very slow or only affect player placed items.

I see several solutions here.

First, all items, once picked up by player are tagged appropriately and once dropped anywhere but indoor area start slowly decay over period of couple of days. With exception of meat(meat should have progressive perceptual timer, unless placed in containers, as if wild animals got to it, eg longer its out there, higher chance of it to be snatched away by some random hungry wolf). Once times is expired they vanish. Good to keep both world and game save files clean of useless junk.

Second, and ive been bitching about it in the past, reduce "value" on some basic resources, like cloth and scrap metal to 10% of original value, eg current piece of cloth would be worth 10 new ones. This way player would be able to find more stuff when searching, but in smaller volumes, so total amount remains comparable to what it is now(so, instead of 1 piece of cloth, player would be able to find 2 here, 3 there, and 5 someplace else). Those constant empty containers piss me off beyond end. This would also allow for smaller repairs to be performed on a more regular basis(this is one of those issues i intend to bitch about later in length in separate topic). And it would also allow to scrap junk for small amounts of stuff, like ruined soft drinks or fish hooks can be scraped for 1-2 units of scrap metal, or ruined flares for tinder.

Third, simplest, just add "destroy" or "scrap" option to ruined items.

12 hours ago, SteveP said:

You can always use a map but there is no map for a reason. In the bush, you won't have one. Not unless you make it yourself. That is part of the experience of being in the bush.

No, this is part of experience of being an idiot. We are operating in area that has numerous watch towers and  ML is also popular tourist(and probably hiker) destination. Plus, we have PV farmers. Plus we have loggers(who usually move from place to place as they log out area, thats why there are those container homes everywhere). Plus we have numerous gas stations. All of those places would be stocked with maps of the surrounding areas. We are not in the bush, we are not even on the same continent for being in the bush.

6 hours ago, Wizard70 said:

I am at University level when it comes to dying. I have found out the hard way to do everything in increments, harvest one thing at a time, sleep 1hour at a time when outdoor, check the temp before chopping wood and don't mess with the Bears.9_9

This game is all about planning. And to plan properly you need understanding of what is going on. And knowing how to measure and manage your resources.

Ive seen a lot of streams where new survivors are livin-it-large, like wasting matches, making campfires every 25 meters, take only enough meat off corpse for 1-2 meals(leaving everything else behind and dont come back for it), leaving light on when going to bed, making bonefires to make just 1 liter of drinkable water, or generally just standing there, scratching their asses for half a day. Then they run out of supplies and have no idea where or how to get more and have no reserves to allow them to last till they find more. And then they just wander off into the night and die.

When i started, but things were rougher then, it took me like 30 deaths to get even past first week. But once you learn lay of the land and how to manage what you have and where to find more, your survivability rates will go up significantly. And even tho i know all maps fairly well(well enough to know where i am 80% of the time), i still use whiteberry maps(granted, they lack proper topography for most part) as i consider them fitting extremely well into game lore.

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19 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

No, this is part of experience of being an idiot. We are operating in area that has numerous watch towers and  ML is also popular tourist(and probably hiker) destination. Plus, we have PV farmers. Plus we have loggers(who usually move from place to place as they log out area, thats why there are those container homes everywhere). Plus we have numerous gas stations. All of those places would be stocked with maps of the surrounding areas. We are not in the bush, we are not even on the same continent for being in the bush

I would agree that a well prepared explorer venturing on a long trip would always carry a good topo map. OTOH, our characters are not there by choice. Topo maps are scarce in the real world; gas stations typically have road maps, not topo maps. Recreation centres sometimes have them for sale. Obviously Hinterlands has the meta data and could easily provide a detailed map with the game however, they consciously chose not to do that. An experienced outdoor person seldom needs a map simply to navigate however, if you are lost, that is when you really want one. An experienced outdoors-man learns to navigate by the terrain features. It depends upon your activity. If you are on the river, where you move long distances and can get disoriented, you need a map. If you are in heavy bush or muskeg, a map without a compass or GPS is kinda useless; you can't see the terrain features easily. Ever tried doing a pace count in muskeg? Not much fun. :S

The lack of a map is, I feel, intended to increase the player's sense of loss, helplessness and abandonment. Very real emotions in such conditions! Will could easily fall into the mental trap of calling himself an idiot for being ill prepared. Would we want that in game? hmmm, maybe. Personally, I would find it annoying since I rarely call myself names unless I make a real cock-up. It's good to be gentle with yourself. I know people who "hate" themselves; bad habit. Don't do dat! Remember: you are your own best friend!!

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Do you want a game that is harsh and realistic? Do you want to triumph over adversity? I like that this game pits me against mother nature and I choose to triumph!! I choose to live! I choose to survive!! Thank goodness we can pick our adversity level. Personally, I like Voyageur because it's just hard enough but I know I can make it.

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