Weapon handling 2?

[Reahs]

I wrote this in a kinda old topic and reposted it here to hopefully get more attention here.

I think that a gun handling system like in Escape from tarkov  would fit nicely because what if you have a rifle in low condition like >50 and you fire at a bear and you charge the next bullet and fires your 2nd shot and the bear is now 2m from you and you tries to eject the next bullet but it got stuck and you just got into a struggle with the bear.

I think that would be really nice in this setting to show that if you don't have your equipment in top shape then you shouldn't rely on it to save your life and/or to show that not even man-made things will save you in mother natures playground.

So maybe if your gun gets wet from maybe if it's snowing or if your jacket and gloves are wet the water on/in your gun freezes and it might jam when reloading/chambering a new round so this can make a difference in the game because this will make the bow a more reliable weapon because there's no internal mechanics that can freeze or jam.

I have more to write but I hope that at least 10 of you guys that hopefully read all this understand where I'm going with this and that you will help me develop this and maybe even a dev/mod likes this and if all goes right this might get added to the awesome experience that's called The Long Dark.

[Sharky]

FYI - The hunting rifle can actually jam. This is a mechanic of the game, but little is known about it, because it only seems to occur when your rifle is in very low condition (30% or less), and rifle cleaning kits are really common. When it jams, just like you said, you have to manually eject the bullet out (reload). I myself have only experienced a rifle jam once (I have 50+ hours of play time).

http://thelongdark.wikia.com/wiki/Hunting_rifle#Jamming

[Reahs]

Thanks for the info because I didn't know that the gun could jam but what do you think about the gun getting wet and things start to freeze inside of it even though there ain't really much that can freeze in that simple rifle.

Now when we are talking weapons what about (this is probably already asked for) an improvised armor for your arms/right arm made from sticks and string that gives you a large damage resist vs wolves but it's really bulky when wearing it and aiming a weapon and it can break really easy depending on the string/rope you used.

so maybe 6-7 sticks and 3 string/leather strips= 1 improvised stick arm armor thing? 

Stats?

Weight:1.5 Kg 

Uses:3 (times it can take damage and the chance of it taking damage when you take damage is 65%)

Time to get your sights up takes 60% extra time

Sway when standing up is 50% worse

The stability when crouched is 60% more stable because you now have more support on your knee

You have 4% less sprint

This is just a few stats that I threw in and feel free the come with your own suggestions on this

 

 

myself I have 89 hours of play time right now.

[ernestww]

Made for the WWII battlefield, the Lee Enfield No.4 was designed with relatively loose tolerances so as to be jam resistant in when dirty, wet or frozen.

It was also noted for having a high rate of fire for a bolt action due to a short throw, cock on close system.  I would favour a game mechanic that increased the rate of fire as your experience went up.

[Patrick Carlson]

As mentioned, there is already a potential for a jam based on your weapon condition -- clean your rifle! I've had a few very memorable experiences with this in-game when starring down a bear. 

The idea of making a jam linked to weather is an interesting one -- how would you imagine making this hazard visible (or not) to the player? It's my understanding the Lee Enfields were used for decades by the Canadian military (and elsewhere) precisely because they were so durable. 

[ernestww]

There is not much that will cause a .303 to misfire in RL. Its cold weather operation could be one of the reasons why the rifle persisted as the issued weapon for the Arctic Rangers until very recently.  Although, the pessimist might claim that the government was just too cheap to upgrade the patrol.

The military issued a canvas breach cover that could be tied onto the rifle with leather laces.  I bought one to see what they were about.  I have no idea when such a thing would be employed as it makes the rifle unusable until a bunch of knots are untied.  Perhaps it was used on parade or when marching in particularly inclement weather?  In heavy snow or rain I'm inclined to carry a rifle muzzle-down to avoid getting snow in the barrel.  A hunting cohort actually puts a piece of tape over the end of the barrel.  It doesn't seem to affect shooting and keep debris out of the barrel.

A possible game metric could be a percentile chance of jamming the barrel into the snow during a stumble or a wolf attack.  Or maybe in very heavy snowfall there could be a build up in the barrel based on time spent in the blizzard. This, unless cleaned, could freeze solid and cause catastrophic failure if fired.  (Yay! A new way to die!). 

Another possible game mechanic could be a rifle safety switch and a chambered/ un-chambered cartridge state for the rifle  In RL it's standard operating procedure (at least in my circles), when hunting, to chamber a round and then engage the safety. This prevents making a bunch of noise operating the bolt when the deer is 100 meters away.  It is also common, in the excitement of the moment, to forget to switch the safety to the 'fire' position. This mechanic also opens up the possibility of forgetting to put the safety back on while traversing terrain, stumbling, and accidentally discharging the weapon (Yay! Another way to die!).        

My personal experience with .303 misfires is if the bolt gets bumped up a bit from from it's locked position. Easy enough to do if you're in rough bush. I had that happen last year in hunting season. Another issue can be if you have too much oil on the bolt it can collect dirt and create sticky bolt action. Occasionally you can have a bad round although this is rare with new ammunition.  From a game standpoint, I might favour a metric that gave a percentile chance of a cartridge being bad, particularly ammunition found outside.  The player might even get a squib-fire where a cartridge only partly fires but the bullet doesn't leave the barrel.  If another round was then fired, the barrel could explode (Yay! yet another way to die!!). Otherwise the rifle would be inoperable until the bullet was removed with a cleaning rod, sometimes not that easy to do. 

[Mortan1234]

On 4/4/2017 at 0:44 PM, Patrick Carlson said:

It's my understanding the Lee Enfields were used for decades by the Canadian military (and elsewhere) precisely because they were so durable.

 

3 hours ago, ernestww said:

There is not much that will cause a .303 to misfire in RL.

i also own a .303 British, and i agree with you that it rarely jams. This is partly due to what they were built for (warfare). Much like the Mosin Nagant it was supposed to be able to be dragged through mud and sand during the worst of conditions by some 18 year old draftee during  WW1 and WW2, and still reliably fire.

With this said i have never had the rifle misfire. @ernestww mentioned his rifle misfiring, but i am curious if it is a problem specific to your rifle or the ammo you use. One thing i have noticed is that shell casings are always much more expanded than with other rifles after firing, which makes reloading difficult if not impossible (as the expansion sometimes creates a crack down the side of the casing). If you were using reloaded ammo i can see why you would have this problem, and as a game mechanic it would make sense that the devs either A: dont implement reloading (current state and most probable outcome) or B: implement reloading ammo then severely nerf it by making the reloading kit rare (like as rare as the hammer in interloper) and causing reloaded ammo to misfire more often (The super awesome approach i really hope happens). 

The images below should help show how you can experience problems with reloaded ammo due to the design of the .303. The first showing expansion closer to the rim and the other showing cracks in the neck of the cartridge. The extra room in the chamber which allows for this was designed specifically to prevent misfires on new ammo, but reloaded ammo could easily cause issues.

TLDR: i think quality of ammo would cause more jams than condition of this specific weapon. Also please implement reloading mechanics into TLD. 

[ernestww]

Mortan1234, Good thoughts.  My rifle, a No.5, although old (1945) was in unused, unissued condition All the parts s/n matched. So it shoots like new, the casings all seem okay although I don't reload.

The only misfire I have had was last year with the partly raised bolt, (Doh! Although the deer wasn't so lucky with the second round).  I also, had some old ammo that was flakey and I disposed of it.  

Don't tell the CO - that magazine is not supposed to be in the rifle while on a vehicle. lol! That would be a fine in Canada.

 

[ernestww]

I recall the day I took the quad pic in a British Columbia region called the Caribou.  It was later afternoon.  I left the quad on the old logging road and trekked into the sticks. All around I could hear wolves howling from almost every direction although, never saw them.  I comforted myself with the idea that there hasn't been too many recorded instances of wolf attack on humans. I was also somewhat comforted by the ten round magazine. 

I checked my '6' several times on the way back to the quad and didn't waste any time getting back to camp.  No twilight hunt that day!

Later on that hunt I encountered what was left of a moose.  Just gnawed bones scattered over a wide area...and wolf scat everywhere filled with hair. I found a hoof and removed the cuticle. Its a bit like tortoiseshell.  One day I will inlay it into my medieval crossbow.  

[Mortan1234]

20 hours ago, ernestww said:

Don't tell the CO - that magazine is not supposed to be in the rifle while on a vehicle. lol! That would be a fine in Canada.

in missouri you can have a rifle open in a truck but if you enter iowa you cannot transport firearms without them being in a carry case. (many people have been ticketed whilst crossing that border for that reason)

[CalNieDaGtarGuy]

Cheers to you sir! I'm a proud Nebraskan!

3 hours ago, Mortan1234 said:

in missouri you can have a rifle open in a truck but if you enter iowa you cannot transport firearms without them being in a carry case. (many people have been ticketed whilst crossing that border for that reason)

 

[MarrowStone]

6 hours ago, Mortan1234 said:

in missouri you can have a rifle open in a truck but if you enter iowa you cannot transport firearms without them being in a carry case. (many people have been ticketed whilst crossing that border for that reason)

As a hunter in Iowa i can confirm that. I dont mind it though, its not like you shoot right after leaving the vehicle anyways, and theres no rush to hunting unless youre not being safe.

[CalNieDaGtarGuy]

Isn't it great to be Midwestern American?

[Mortan1234]

52 minutes ago, CalNieDaGtarGuy said:

 

Isn't it great to be Midwestern American?

 

Indeed. God Bless America.

(kinda ironic considering the thing that brought us together is based in Canada)

[CalNieDaGtarGuy]

9 hours ago, Mortan1234 said:

Indeed. God Bless America.

(kinda ironic considering the thing that brought us together is based in Canada)

Well Canada's a pretty cool place as well.