Hand Drill Fire Making

[eyeofthetiger]

It would be interesting if they added a hand drill or a fire plow for fire making, with a low chance of success. The thing about this would be that you could use it indoors at any time, unlike the magnifying glass. I'm not sure these techniques are very successful in the cold but that is part of the difficulty in getting them to work. Maybe you could craft them out of two sticks or one stick and a piece of firewood, respectively.

[Shane Retter]

A bow drill might be cool .... [to craft] maple / cured cut or fishing line / stick or arrow shaft.

[AZHockeyNut]

22 hours ago, Shane Retter said:

A bow drill might be cool .... [to craft] maple / cured cut or fishing line / stick or arrow shaft.

and maybe it requires 2 tinder rather than one regardless of your fire starting level?

[Dug]

This is on the "near term" roadmap: http://hinterlandgames.com/the-long-dark/roadmap/

 

[SteveP]

You would need cordage for this. Fishing line wouldn't grip it well enough; it has to be thin. Many drills just use your hands; the Inuit don't use a bow, they simply have two small wooden handles on the ends of cordage and they grip it with two  hands to get more leverage; the pivot is gripped in the teeth.

See the following discussions:
[Poll] Fire making alternatives This discussion has several videos, images and research on lots of alternatives. I don't think these are all the alternatives but it gives you lots of reading and fertilizer for new ideas.

[poll] Fire Starting This discussion covers the additional aspects of tinder, kindling and accelerants.

Additional techniques for making fires has been a HOT topic! The bow drill and fire drill are very popular as well as the concept that fire making is a skill that has to be developed.

Another very interesting discussion is animations and other factors affecting fire making:
Animations for fire making [POLL]

All those cars with gas tanks and batteries; ya gotta think someone is going to figure out how to make a fire using gasoline and electrical sparks!

[eyeofthetiger]

I figured they planned on utilizing the car batteries in some capacity in the future since they bothered to visually separate it from everything else under the hood. I thought it would end up just being some story mode thing though.

[SteveP]

14 hours ago, eyeofthetiger said:

I figured they planned on utilizing the car batteries in some capacity in the future since they bothered to visually separate it from everything else under the hood. I thought it would end up just being some story mode thing though.

For sure!

[michael_martin]

I personally feel like the bow drill would be kind of unrealistic for this game right now considering everything is extremely wet and covered with snow...maybe if they make a spring/summer map then it would make more sense. Bow drills won't work even for expert fire makers in damp environments. Add to that several feet of snow and constant snow fall, I don't see anyone starting a fire like that outside.

 

But I understand where you're coming from. I personally love the primitive feel of making a fire like that.

[SteveP]

On 3/30/2017 at 7:24 PM, michael_martin said:

I personally feel like the bow drill would be kind of unrealistic for this game right now considering everything is extremely wet and covered with snow

Actually, the Inuit only made fire by using a strap drill before Europeans brought matches or lighters or flint/steel with char-cloth. You have to keep the wood dry but actually when it is really cold, its not wet at all. I think it's a misconception that non-Canadians and others who don't live in the North may have. Wood that's lying on the ground is wet, yes. But wood on a tree is quite dry. You also must make the drill and board from the right wood and it must be kept dry. It would be an advanced skill. We have tried to make fire using a bow drill; it is not easy. Presumably, you would have to learn the technique from a research book. It would give you a chance to extend survival beyond the time that your matches would last. How many days do you want to survive? Several thousand? Years? I don't know. After a time, things become quite rote and perhaps less interesting.

Here is a link to Inuit fire making:

How did the Inuit light their kudliks in winter?

Quote

The complete quote is as such:

"The second method, by reciprocating motion of wood on wood and igniting the ground- off particles through heat generated by friction, was widespread in America, where it was the most valued as well as the most effectual process known to the aborigines. The apparatus, in its simplest form, consists of a slender rod or drill and a lower piece or hearth, near the border of which the drill is worked by twisting between the palms, cutting a socket. From the socket a narrow canal is cut in the edge of the hearth, the function of which is to collect the powdered wood ground off by the friction of the drill, as within this wood meal the heat rises to the ignition point.

This is the simplest and most widely diffused type of fire-generating apparatus known to uncivilized man. Among the Eskimo and some other tribes the simple two-piece fire drill became a machine by the use of a hand or mouth rest containing a stone, bone, or wood socket for the upper end of the drill, and a cord with two handles or string on a bow for revolving the drill. By these inventions uniform and rapid motions and heat pressure were effected, rendering it possible to make fire with inferior wood. The four-part drill consisted of two kinds: (a) The cord drill, which requires the co-operation of two persons in its working, and (b) the bow drill, which enables one person to make fire or to driU bone and ivory. The distribution of these varieties, which are confined to the Eskimo and their neighbours, follows no regular order; they may be used together in the same tribe, or one or other may be used alone, although the presumption is that the cord drill is the older. The hearth alone embodies two interesting modifications which reflect the environment. In one the canal leads down to a step or projection from the side of the hearth, and in the other the drilling is done on a longitudinal slot in the middle of the hearth, the object in both cases being to prevent the fire from falling into the snow.

A similar discrimination is observed in the selection of tinder. The Eskimo prized willow catkins; the Indians of the N. W. coast used frayed cedar bark; other tribes used fungi, softened bark, grass, or other ignitible material"

 

[SteveP]

Here is another fascinating reference:
Boys' Life Feb 1915 Eskimo Fire Drill

It even mentions keeping a single ember smoldering for as long as two weeks using a woven cedar bark rope.

 

[michael_martin]

5 hours ago, SteveP said:

Wood that's lying on the ground is wet, yes.

You say that wood on trees is dry and therein lies the problem, there is no way to chop trees or obtain these dry woods. Just the wood lying on the ground and some dry scattered in various shelters. I understand what your saying about the Inuit, that's real cool.

But I'm saying in life or death situations (kind of like TLD), with frostbite risks, no assistance, high blizzard winds, nobody to hold the top of the drill steady, etc...its going to be very unrealistic or difficult to start a fire that way. I feel like a lot of people watch these survival shows with experts using hand drills or bow drills and think its a practical way to start fires. We're not cave men any more, nor tribesmen. We have technology like matches, lighters, lighter fluid, etc...

 

The only way I would like to see a bow drill is if they can incorporate some mini-game, kind of like the wolf melee, but maybe using joysticks (I play on xb1). Any other thoughts on this?

[Boston123]

Hand-drills are only effective in environments where the air is bone-dry.

Bow-drills or strap-drills would almost-certainly be more effective. They aren't easy to use, but they are a hell of a lot easier than other methods.

I, for one, would prefer to see methods of "carrying fire" with us, as opposed to a bunch of primitive firelighting methods.

[Mel Guille]

17 hours ago, Boston123 said:

I, for one, would prefer to see methods of "carrying fire" with us, as opposed to a bunch of primitive firelighting methods.

That's an interesting idea. Were you thinking of a pot or other container that could be used to transport hot coals?

[AZHockeyNut]

The pots on the stove for sure perhaps ones we find that have lids. Rare item for sure. Or a small candy tin where you could carry char cloth (lose one cloth per) or one cloth is 2 char cloth...Some kids of trade off

[Dirmagnos]

We have numerous tin cans from all the canned goods to carry fire around. After all, we dont need a whole campfire-on-the-go.

Tindebox would be nice tho. A learnable recipe. 

[Docterrok]

We honestly need this.

[SteveP]

On 4/7/2017 at 6:27 AM, michael_martin said:

You say that wood on trees is dry and therein lies the problem, there is no way to chop trees or obtain these dry woods.

You can find standing dead trees especially in swamps; they are dry on the inside but you need a knife or axe to get at the dry parts. Cedar bark is great stuff. On spruce or any conifer there are loads of dead branches on the bottom parts of the trees that you can break off by hand. The wood stays dry because its under the shelter of the upper branches. It makes great kindling, burns fast and hot. Dry tinder is harder to find especially stuff that will take an ember or spark.

To make a fire drill,  you do need soft wood. Look for dead willow or alder or poplar for the base; birch or tamarack for the drill; willow for the bow. Here's some information on the subject: Bow Drill and making fire with sticks in full HTML Bow Drill and making fire with sticks

As mentioned, char cloth is invaluable! You can dry material like damp cedar bark, punk wood, catkins and other fluffy stuff by the same method as making charcloth, in a tin can.

Charred Punk Tinder