Sprains


mattyboi

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Not sure if there has been a recent tweak to the sprain mechanics? Played a voyager run yesterday and got four sprains within a 24 hour in-game period. Sprained an ankle and both wrists traveling from trappers cabin to the lookout tower in mystery lake, and sprained an ankle again on the return trip the following day. To be clear, I did not jump or fall off of anything; I was just walking and suddenly had conditions applied. 

Seems excessive since I personally have never sprained a joint in a lifetime of outdoor activity.

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I do not belive that is excessive, you should thing that in normal conditions you can sprained an ankle just for running the bus, in the game you are with -30°C cold, muscles are very delicates when cold is heavy... I hate when it happends to me, but is the minimum affliction.

 

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 Air temp would have been right around zero for the first set of sprains, and around -6 for the second set.

Total load was around 22kg for the first set and 35kg for the second set (I'd killed a deer and two wolves early that morning and was bringing them back to dry and complete my outfits).

I was wearing the deer boots; I assume these don't have as much ankle stability as other footwear might, but don't know if this factors into the mechanics of the game? Also doesn't explain the sprained wrists.

Anyway, like I say, in all the camping, backpacking, rock climbing I've done I've personally never sprained anything outdoors  (though in basketball, yes).

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Yes, I definitely feel that the sprained ankle/wrist mechanic is overblown. It may be easier to sprain your ankle when you are trudging through deep snow and you don't know what you're stepping on but it really become ridiculous when it happens regularly while walking on flat terrain. 

It's especially ridiculous when you sprain your ankle and your character remarks "Ouch! That smarts!" and you're left thinking "Really?!? You did the exact same thing only FOUR FUCKING HOURS AGO!!"

There definitely needs to be some sort of diminishing returns on sprained ankles, because it's such a rookie mistake when you're trying to survive on your own. 

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Games are abstracts.  Don't get hung up on a name.  "Sprain" here is just a catch-all to encompass all minor injuries to an extremity that limit its use temporarily but which will disappear with a little rest or some painkillers.  An interesting challenge to deal with while playing.  Actual sprains are not so forgiving...

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Are you more likely to sprain your ankle while strafing than while walking forward? I've always strafed wherever I go, ever since I played Goldeneye for N64. It's kinda necessary for FPS games with the standard WASD + mouse setup (or two joysticks) because you can't walk around while checking your surroundings without strafing. I know you're sick of real life comparisons but I still think it's relevant because our most basic animal instincts want to look around while we're moving through dangerous territory.

I hope this isn't the case because walking is slow enough in this game, even when I don't need to stop every 10 metres or so to check my surroundings. 

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Sprains have had an interesting history on the forums. I almost never get them; other players are plagued with them.

As I understand it all movement has the chance to result in a sprain. It "should" be zero (or close to zero) on flat terrain. How steep the terrain is, whether or not you've fallen, and the weight you're carrying should all impact the likelihood of a sprain occurring.

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3 hours ago, cekivi said:

As I understand it all movement has the chance to result in a sprain. It "should" be zero (or close to zero) on flat terrain. How steep the terrain is, whether or not you've fallen, and the weight you're carrying should all impact the likelihood of a sprain occurring.

I'm pretty sure it also depends a whole lot on whether you're looking in the same direction as your movement direction. 95% of the time I ever got a sprain while climbing some steep terrain I was not looking in my primary movement direction. 

In the light of that it also makes quite some sense that people get entirely different experiences - the more they encumber their characters and/or the more they move sidewards, the more likely they're going to drown in sprains. ^^

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2 hours ago, Scyzara said:

I'm pretty sure it also depends a whole lot on whether you're looking in the same direction as your movement direction. 95% of the time I ever got a sprain while climbing some steep terrain I was not looking in my primary movement direction. 

In the light of that it also makes quite some sense that people get entirely different experiences - the more they encumber their characters and/or the more they move sidewards, the more likely they're going to drown in sprains. ^^

I've never been sure if this was actually a feature (watching where you're going), but I've had almost no sprains since I've been stopping to look around while walking on uneven ground.

I was getting them all the time when I first started playing, now it's a pretty rare thing. If I'm getting tired, or I'm loaded up, or both, I'll stay on flatter ground. If I have no choice but to take a steep route while tired or loaded, I'll crouch walk, and this has almost fully eliminated the number of falls I have. I still have the very odd one from rushing when I shouldn't, but I'm getting them down to almost nil from traveling now.

I feel like it's pretty good now ... and I never use painkillers, I feel they make the whole idea of taking extra care when traveling quite pointless if you can instantly heal with a pill, or some tea. I like having to limp, or not be able to use my weapon if I've pushed my luck, and lost. Personally .... I'd like sprains to be treated like Hypothermia ... you have to rest, and must only carry very limited items for a period of time to let it heal up.

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5 hours ago, Scyzara said:

I'm pretty sure it also depends a whole lot on whether you're looking in the same direction as your movement direction. 95% of the time I ever got a sprain while climbing some steep terrain I was not looking in my primary movement direction. 

In the light of that it also makes quite some sense that people get entirely different experiences - the more they encumber their characters and/or the more they move sidewards, the more likely they're going to drown in sprains. ^^

Interesting info. I've never had too much trouble with sprains, so maybe I lacked the statistical material to make this observation. Would be cool if it was actually a feature - I mean that not looking where you're going raises the chances of getting a sprain.

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I'm one of those people who has had a Spraintastic sandbox.  Three total, as a matter of fact, in about 250 sandboxes.

My guess is that it's a super unlucky "roll" at time the sandbox is created, or maybe a bug.  Either way, in my experience this particular sandbox will experience ridiculously frequent sprains forever.  I suffered through my first one for about 200 days before giving up on it.  But my next sandbox experienced sprains at a normal rate using a dramatically less careful playstyle (I could turn without coming to a full stop first!).  The next 50 sandboxes also experienced sprains at a normal rate.

Now, if I get several sprains early in a sandbox doing low risk stuff as described in the OP I delete the sandbox immediately, and reroll.  The Spraintastic ones just aren't worth my time. 

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Back with a sprain update from yesterday; somehow managed to sprain both ankles walking from trappers homestead to unnamed pond in another sandbox. In this build I was wearing mukluks and carrying a load of approximately 18kgs.

Also managed to sprain my wrist somehow after shooting a bear a day or two later, which prevented me from taking a second shot at him. Fortunately I was crouched and he didn't charge me.

In any case, it seems like the sprains vary from player to player, but it really detracts from the gaming experience IMHO.

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@mattyboi Try a different sandbox, I bet it solves the problem.  I know it's tough to give up on a sandbox you've invested some time into, but the Super Sprain Bug experience is not fun, while the game itself is quite fun otherwise.  Most of the time for most of the players, actually, since the bug is rare.

BTW, this was the very first issue I reported here, about 500 posts ago.   I got told it wasn't a real issue, but even after all my experience with the game since then (about 1200 hours) I still believe it's real bug.  Just super rare.

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2 hours ago, mattyboi said:

Back with a sprain update from yesterday; somehow managed to sprain both ankles walking from trappers homestead to unnamed pond in another sandbox. In this build I was wearing mukluks and carrying a load of approximately 18kgs.

Also managed to sprain my wrist somehow after shooting a bear a day or two later, which prevented me from taking a second shot at him. Fortunately I was crouched and he didn't charge me.

In any case, it seems like the sprains vary from player to player, but it really detracts from the gaming experience IMHO.

I bet I know the spot, and when ever I walk from trappers homestead to unnamed pond now, I don't take the direct route, as I had a lot of sprains on that first hill ... I kind of like it though, because it's quite realistic in a way ... I imagine there could be rocks / logs under the snow there, so always avoid that particular path. There are parts on other maps I've learned to navigate around as well .... and now I just don't get sprains anymore, well, except when exploring new areas sometimes, but I've now developed an eye for terrain that looks likely to cause injury.

It could be a bug, but I've had an injury free character for a long time ... then tested it be taking a known high injury chance route .... sure enough, both a sprained ankle and wrist straight off the bat. I feels more like an organic player terrain knowledge feature, more than anything else. Like we're supposed to learn where not to, or, how not to walk, as you  actually do when alone in the wilds.

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1 hour ago, Ruruwawa said:

@mattyboi Try a different sandbox, I bet it solves the problem.  I know it's tough to give up on a sandbox you've invested some time into, but the Super Sprain Bug experience is not fun, while the game itself is quite fun otherwise.  Most of the time for most of the players, actually, since the bug is rare.

BTW, this was the very first issue I reported here, about 500 posts ago.   I got told it wasn't a real issue, but even after all my experience with the game since then (about 1200 hours) I still believe it's real bug.  Just super rare.

It actually is a new sandbox for a different reason; I'm doing speed runs to work on the most efficient way to get the full skin outfit. But apparently have the sprain bug in this new sandbox as well?

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@Shane Retter This would have been going straight over the two rows of hills, which is pretty direct. More recently I've been taking a route that essentially hugs the rock wall at the edge of the map until I get above unnamed pond, and then I work my way down to the hunters blind. I find this takes me around the typical paths of the wolfs that can lurk around the direct route, and also gives me a birds eye view of whatever animals may be around the pond so I can play any hunting/avoidance that I need to do in advance. I'll keep an eye out and see if this problem persists in specific areas.

I will say, having spent pretty much a lifetime walking in snow, winter is probably the season where I'm the least concerned about spraining an ankle. On the one hand, if you're walking on packed snow and not sinking in very deep, then you're not going to catch yourself on rocks/branches or other troublesome obstacles that could normally cause a sprain. On the other hand, if you are sinking into the snow, once the snow comes up past your shins it provides a natural ankle support in the case that you to trip on something.

What I really would actually like to see is Hinterlands develop a mechanic where if the player tries to walk up a hillside that's too steep, he breaks the snow loose and slides back down the hill. If I got a sprain that way, it would be more believable to me. I've always thought that in the game you are able to walk up surprisingly steep topography that I personally wouldn't try to do in real life.

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@mattyboi I had less injuries taking that route, but still some when I was a little tired....that whole area seems pretty hazardous. I now follow the rocks to that first flat area, then right to the deer carcass, and then left over that small saddle that leads almost straight to the stand. 45kgs, and fatigued ... not a problem.

I've been following your post, and as I said, my current character has had almost no injuries so far, so I thought I'd test the idea that certain characters can be "immune" to sprains, while others are "cursed" with them. My character does not seem to be immune, if I take routes that have caused sprains in the past ... so I doubt it's a Probability Value issue with specific lives. It could be a bug, but I was able to damage my injury free character just as easily as one of my earlier ones that were limping so often, it became their normal gait, lol.

I thought that would be a cool feature as well, with snow breaking loose on steep terrain. I have very little real world snow experience, so I'm only assuming that buried objects would be an issue in real life, so I can include that in my game play for immersion when encountering an area the game deems ... high risk for an arbitrary reason :) .

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Terrain can play a role in the likelihood of sprains, as mentioned above, but it can be just a "chance" occurrence -- as if you are walking on flat ground with a heavy pack and stumble. You might twist an ankle, or put a hand down to steady yourself. It's part of the balance in the game between player and character -- the consequences of some activities are more in our control than others, if that makes sense. And indeed, in some areas the character's knowledge and abilities in the game world exceed our own (think Skills or Feats). 

 

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  • 1 month later...

So after straining an ankle today doing nothing more than walking up the forestry lookout stairs, I checked my stats for this particular sandbox: in 52 days of survival, I've had 22 sprains. This is a Voyager sandbox, if that helps. In any case, this is far more than any other type of affliction in this sandbox. Seems pretty steep to get a sprain nearly every other day. Just my $0.02.

Update: Final tally after today's gameplay is 56 days, 28 sprains.  None of the additional sprains from were from animal attacks; just from walking around. I'm really not sure what this affliction rate is supposed to accomplish; at best it doesn't contribute to the game experience, at worst it detracts from the overall enjoyment. My personal preference is to deal with survival challenges other than repetitive spraining.

End of feedback; I'll let the topic go now.

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