Seasonal changes

[Unfundedpanther]

You should create seasonal changes

[Mikhail_Reign]

What exactly would be the driving difficulty in Summer, Autumn and Spring, like the cold and lack of food and water sources that characterizes Winter?

[Unfundedpanther]

Yeah you would try and stock up for winter and such

 

[EricTheGreat12]

6 minutes ago, Unfundedpanther said:

Yeah you would try and stock up for winter and such

 

This has been a topic that has was brought up for a while, and I've said it many times before, I am strongly against this idea:

 

The whole point of Long Dark, the game, is to survive the dead of winter. If you implement seasons, winter will be discarded, and you would have to focus on autumn, spring and summer, which is completely opposite of what the game is trying to be now. 

 

Even if it is implemented, how could they achieve such a major plan? Everything in the game would have to be re-done, and when the seasons change would be extremely difficult and troublesome due to the fact that minimal survival time is about 20 days, with only the very strong players doing more than 100 days.

 

So no, they should not implement various seasons into this game. Not only would it destroy the game's purpose as we know it now, it just cannot be implemented. {aka=this is a bad idea}

[Pillock]

With the current maps, the most obvious problem you're going to face outside of winter is the fact that the lakes, rivers and sea won't be frozen. That means moving around is going to be much more restricted and time-consuming.

Forlorn Muskeg would be to totally different and more difficult place to live in, for example. The Riken (and the forge) would be submerged and lost. Winding River would be impassable. Pleasant Valley would be chopped up into defined sections with restricted access between them.

[Mikhail_Reign]

Yeah but food and water are plentiful in Spring/Summer - even Autumn really. That's when animals breed, plants grow, rivers run. Other then increasing the danger of wolves - what would be the challanges? The person before me suggested travel time - is it tho? You would be fully equiped and stocked.  It would be, for all intensive purposes, a stroll in the park. Someone else suggested that it be used as preparation time for Winter - so 3/4 of the game would be preparation time? How hard would Winter have to be (gameplay wise) to warrant 9ish months of preparation? We are currently being dropping right in the middle of Winter with 0 perpetration - think how much harder it would have to be. It would probably just boil down to week long blizzards. 

 

Im not arguing that it would indeed be a different game - I just want someone to explain how they see that it would be a good game

[Pillock]

56 minutes ago, Mikhail_Reign said:

Yeah but food and water are plentiful in Spring/Summer - even Autumn really. That's when animals breed, plants grow, rivers run. Other then increasing the danger of wolves - what would be the challanges? The person before me suggested travel time - is it tho? You would be fully equiped and stocked.  It would be, for all intensive purposes, a stroll in the park. Someone else suggested that it be used as preparation time for Winter - so 3/4 of the game would be preparation time? How hard would Winter have to be (gameplay wise) to warrant 9ish months of preparation? We are currently being dropping right in the middle of Winter with 0 perpetration - think how much harder it would have to be. It would probably just boil down to week long blizzards. 

 

Im not arguing that it would indeed be a different game - I just want someone to explain how they see that it would be a good game

There would have to be a lot of changes and adjustments, plus new mechanics and features added - I think that's a given. But it could be made to work, I think.

The development roadmap has "Spring Sandbox" as a future addition that the Hinterland team are at the least thinking about making. I take that to mean a standalone game mode, rather than an addition to the current winter sandbox: ie. there wouldn't be a transition from winter to spring; you'd just choose one season or the other at the start of the game and stay in it throughout. The full year-round sandbox mode with seasonal transitions is, on the information we have, at best only an idea at this point, and probably a very long way off. By the time it ever made it into the game (if it did at all), there would likely have been major changes to the way the game works over the course of a few years' development. Therefore, I'm not sure it's really worth looking at it from the perspective of how the game is now.

(That contradicts what I said in my early post, I know, but what the hell.)

[cekivi]

Welcome to the forums @Unfundedpanther 

The difficulty would be in the second winter. If seasons were implemented a lot of the resources and structures currently used in the game (e.g. ice fishing huts) would be gone as would all ready-made food. Disease and parasites are also much more of a concern in the warmer seasons. Hence the challenge would be gathering enough supplies and making enough equipment to survive the barren winter months without getting sick, drowning, attacked by wildlife, etc.  

[IanS]

I love the idea of seasons and how it would affect the map, but for those who don't it seems like an on/off setting for seasons would make everyone happy.

[Ohbal]

Seasons have been on TLD roadmap for a year or so. I agree their implementation will bring a ton of gameplay adjustments but I can't honestly wait to see the season change. 

Speaking about the challenges. I think I wrote a post about this in the past but I don't feel like looking for it. This is how I would approach this:

- Winter should be the main gameplay season of TLD. This means that the summer, spring and autumn should be shorter in lenght.

- Spring should be the most easy-going season. Lots of hunting available. but this also mean more wildlife hunting you. Also, rain! Storms! 

-  Summer should bring a challenge in order to keep your body fresh and drinking periodically should be as important as keeping your body warm in winter. We could assume that the geomagnetic disaster also affected the summer and made them warmer. Some water sources could dissappear. Rivers getting dry. Waterfalls dissappearing... etc. 

- Autum should be a short transition to winter. More rain, more storms, the cold increasing and rivers getting frozen again, and wildlife getting scarcer. 

As Cekivi said, the second winter should be way harder than the first, as some structures would have collapsed. Maybe introducing a deeper structural decay system that made some of the houses collapse and things like this. 

I personally think that the possibility to actually survive a winter would be awesome gameplay wise. The rewarding feeling of making it through, and having some time that changes the mechanics for a while would add depth to the game. 

[toebar]

20 minutes ago, Ohbal said:

- Spring should be the most easy-going season. Lots of hunting available. but this also mean more wildlife hunting you.

Interesting..  More wildlife hunting you... such as?      More wolves?  Bears that are hungry because they just woke from their winter dormancy?.... oh wait...  

 

[Ohbal]

Well, cougars and moose are on the roadmap, so there you have two more

I would expect the wolf-pack mechanics that are also on the roadmap to get their peak on late spring, and start decreasing again in autumn.

 

[toebar]

26 minutes ago, Ohbal said:

Well, cougars and moose are on the roadmap, so there you have two more

I would expect the wolf-pack mechanics that are also on the roadmap to get their peak on late spring, and start decreasing again in autumn.

 

I welcome the new animals, but they have little to do with the seasons .    I'm not convinced the wolf-pack behavior would (or should) change across the seasons.

It could be argued (IF female animals are ever introduced to the game ) that encountering a cow moose with a calf in the spring could be very dangerous (more common than bears IRL, and typically more aggressively defensive).  Bull moose in the fall could be more aggressive also.  

Truthfully, there's already way more hunting available than there needs to be.   Maybe if they cut down the numbers available in winter, and increased them in spring it would make sense to have more available in spring?

[Ohbal]

Just now, toebar said:

Truthfully, there's already way more hunting available than there needs to be.   Maybe if they cut down the numbers available in winter, and increased them in spring it would make sense to have more available in spring?

That is exactly what I mean the season gameplay could bring to the table. You would need to stockpile for the winter, as wildlife could get a real nerf during the winter without killing the player. I totally agree with the need of a nerf to wildlife by the way.

The two new animals I mentioned are dangerous ones, so it means more hazards for the player. If we get into this wheel of more wildlife as heat returns and the other way around, we get to a real cycle of gameplays in which more strategies come to play. 

I would like to highlight the idea of storms. During the cold early spring and late autum these could offer a similar threat as the current blizzards. 

I wouid personally enjoy a really solitary winter, with the company of birds and a few hungry wolves here and there, but little to no deers or rabbits. Managing your stock and making good use of the little hunting available to make it through... again  

[Ohbal]

Sorry, just needed to elaborate more on the cycle concept:

Spring: all resources available. You need to fight your way againt abundant wildlife and stockpile water for the summer would be a good idea. Natural hazard: storms

Summer: avoid dehidratation and heat, slight wildlife reduction. Some rivers get dry. Natural hazard: drought

Autum: Temperature starts decreasing, another slight wildlife reduction, and the need to stockpile food and clothes (and dry wood? this has been another wish of mine for long ). Natural hazard: storms

Winter: the game we know, but with (way) less hunting around. 

[henroe32]

Firstly, in places very far north, it can get so cold all year round that the ice is thinner but never melts which is why the fishing huts never sink. 

I think that seasons are a nice idea but would definitely require a lot of work as well as invocation to create. The idea that you prepare for winter Inthink is also a bad one as the time frame for the game would require it to last 100s of days and surviving 10 can be hard enough for new and intermediate players such as myself, especially on harder difficulties. There are probably also not enough supplies for you as a character to live off of the sources be come scarcer over time and your tools slowly wear away.

[EricTheGreat12]

31 minutes ago, henroe32 said:

I think that seasons are a nice idea but would definitely require a lot of work as well as invocation to create. The idea that you prepare for winter Inthink is also a bad one as the time frame for the game would require it to last 100s of days and surviving 10 can be hard enough for new and intermediate players such as myself, especially on harder difficulties. There are probably also not enough supplies for you as a character to live off of the sources be come scarcer over time and your tools slowly wear away.

Ladies and gentlemen,

 

Jackpot !!

 

Music to my ears, and I'm glad to hear someone else mention how not everyone would be able to go through the seasonal changes. 

[Ohbal]

31 minutes ago, henroe32 said:

I think that seasons are a nice idea but would definitely require a lot of work as well as invocation to create. The idea that you prepare for winter Inthink is also a bad one as the time frame for the game would require it to last 100s of days and surviving 10 can be hard enough for new and intermediate players such as myself, especially on harder difficulties. There are probably also not enough supplies for you as a character to live off of the sources be come scarcer over time and your tools slowly wear away.

So, you like the idea of seasons but you don't like the idea of preparing to survive the winter? How would you like it to work then?

On the survival topic, you don't need to worry about getting to day 200, you need to worry only for tomorrow. If you are willing to endure, you'll eventually make it as long as you want (except on interloper). 

Nice to know about the thin ice. Anyway we'll have to wait and see what happens to those huts... I have a ton of stuff sitting on some of them  

[cekivi]

1 hour ago, henroe32 said:

Firstly, in places very far north, it can get so cold all year round that the ice is thinner but never melts which is why the fishing huts never sink.

Unless you're close to the pole or at high elevations even the arctic will melt. You may be thinking of permafrost instead

[henroe32]

8 hours ago, cekivi said:

Unless you're close to the pole or at high elevations even the arctic will melt. You may be thinking of permafrost instead

In England it only rains; snow is figment of the imagination

[henroe32]

I understand as I have said in my previous comment that adding this to the already created world would be cumbersome and generally a bad idea but I think that maybe a variety of location states could exist.

For example: lakes could melt making some areas completely inaccessible meaning that you may have to camp out on the mainland waiting for the ice to freeze. NOTE That maybe places such as the forge on the ship should perhaps should never be completely cut off for long periods of time as it is a unique location.

I will create a new suggestion post for another idea around this.

[Tarflink]

        I'm looking forward to seeing what the seasonal changes bring.  But, just to kick the ant hill, seems like everyone expects normal seasons.  What if spring / fall are really short cause you know the event caused a mini-ice age.  Just adding my 2 cents worth. 

       Just a really cold year.  As for finding food in the spring, good luck.  Spring is almost as bad as winter, its fall that is harvest time and food gets abundant.  I do like the mention of the ice thawing, and yes that would mean walking around the water, or though it I suppose.  The bad side?  Mud?  Less maneuverable room to avoid the hostile wildlife along the shore.  Floods, to change the landscape.

      Again just kicking the anthill for all the pessimists (optimists?)  who think it'll be so easy =)

[Lovehandel]

Summer in the north is anything but a picnic if you are not equipped/prepared for it. The Black Flies alone would drive you nuts.

[henroe32]

On 04/03/2017 at 1:01 AM, Ohbal said:

So, you like the idea of seasons but you don't like the idea of preparing to survive the winter? How would you like it to work then?

On the survival topic, you don't need to worry about getting to day 200, you need to worry only for tomorrow. If you are willing to endure, you'll eventually make it as long as you want (except on interloper). 

Nice to know about the thin ice. Anyway we'll have to wait and see what happens to those huts... I have a ton of stuff sitting on some of them  

See my seasonal locations post

[cekivi]

On ‎2017‎-‎03‎-‎04 at 7:17 AM, Tarflink said:

        I'm looking forward to seeing what the seasonal changes bring.  But, just to kick the ant hill, seems like everyone expects normal seasons.  What if spring / fall are really short cause you know the event caused a mini-ice age.  Just adding my 2 cents worth. 

       Just a really cold year.  As for finding food in the spring, good luck.  Spring is almost as bad as winter, its fall that is harvest time and food gets abundant.  I do like the mention of the ice thawing, and yes that would mean walking around the water, or though it I suppose.  The bad side?  Mud?  Less maneuverable room to avoid the hostile wildlife along the shore.  Floods, to change the landscape.

      Again just kicking the anthill for all the pessimists (optimists?)  who think it'll be so easy =)

Provided there is enough time to actually grow and harvest food in the short spring-autumn I would be fine with that. 7 months of winter, 6 weeks of spring and fall, and 2 months of summer would be fine with me