feelings about rabbit snares


farce713

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does someone feel the same about the rabbit snares in the game like me?

i hate using them an i dont understand why there are no "living traps" (<is it called like this?)

here in germany these snares are illegal since 1934 and i think for a good reason.

normally you place a cage where you catch the rabbit (it still lives) and then you kill it fast.

or you can let it free again if you have catched too many rabbits for you to consume.

why must the rabbits suffer edit:(in this game)?

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44 minutes ago, farce713 said:

does someone feel the same about the rabbit snares in the game like me?

i hate using them an i dont understand why there are no "living traps" (<is it called like this?)

here in germany these snares are illegal since 1934 and i think for a good reason.

normally you place a cage where you catch the rabbit (it still lives) and then you kill it fast.

or you can let it free again if you have catched too many rabbits for you to consume.

why must the rabbits suffer edit:(in this game)?

 

The do not suffer in the rabbit trap in game, the rabbit dies instantly and feels no pain what so ever! real life might be different yes.

A cage on the other hand would cause the rabbit to stress out all night or day, pooing it self waiting to get killed.

Also do you think fishing is cruel? and if you had no choice would you use a snare or die of hunger?

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a rabbit has a more complex nerve system than a fish.

and i do know that they do not suffer for real, its a game right? but: you pretend to do that in game and you imagine its happen for real, its called immersion.

and the cage is not that bad at all, atleast its better then to let them choke themselves slowly to death.

this is what i think, this is what law in europe thinks.

i dont know.. are these snares legal in america?

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I think snares are in most parts of USA not sure I live in AU. Either way its a game :) I think I would set a snare to catch my rabbit / dinner if I was hungry.

Not sure about your cage, bit like a cat trap maybe? sure might work but do you have one and if not how long would it take to make one / resources etc. either way i think the rabbit snares are good.

Also if you don't want to snare them try shooting them.

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14 minutes ago, nicko said:

Also if you don't want to snare them try shooting them.

this is a point.

but this is how rabbit cages for example in The Forest (edit: the game) are working:

300px-Rabbit_trap.jpg?version=b68b877e2d

 

or a real life example

indian_village10.jpg

 

you would need sticks to build them and could place them like the other snares.

when a rabbit is catched you could get the option to break the neck (one of the fastest ways to kill small game without tools)

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yep it would be harder to craft, right.

its almost the same percentage to catch a rabbit as with the other snare.

cage: the rabbit has to walk against the stick for the cage to drop and it could go wrong (rabbit not exactly under the cage)

sling: the rabbit has to get with his head into the sling and to move forward for it to tighten, could also go wrong (break)

 

its just how i felt when i first saw these snares in game and i wanted to speak this out loud.. 

i guess it depends on how emotional you are (or i am) when it comes to animals. i do love them all :)

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7 hours ago, farce713 said:

does someone feel the same about the rabbit snares in the game like me?

i hate using them an i dont understand why there are no "living traps" (<is it called like this?)

here in germany these snares are illegal since 1934 and i think for a good reason.

normally you place a cage where you catch the rabbit (it still lives) and then you kill it fast.

or you can let it free again if you have catched too many rabbits for you to consume.

why must the rabbits suffer edit:(in this game)?

Hi @farce713 , thanks for sharing your thoughts! Rabbit snares as depicted in the game are legal in Canada, and not considered unusual in remote or survival conditions. However you're not only person to feel that they might be cruel and I can appreciate a desire to avoid unnecessary waste or suffering.

The world of The Long Dark is intended to reflect nature as beautiful, yet also harsh and indifferent to the survival and suffering of its inhabitants. However survivors are human -- they struggle with their own vulnerability, solitude, and sense of loss. Not everyone may feel the same way, but it's also not unreasonable to empathize with the game's wildlife. :)

In short, I think your idea for live traps is an interesting one. Do you have ideas on how it might be implemented differently in the different Experience Modes?

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1 hour ago, Mel Guille said:

thanks for sharing your thoughts!

uh wow! thanks for your reply!

i am glad you like the idea.

1 hour ago, Mel Guille said:

However survivors are human -- they struggle with their own vulnerability, solitude, and sense of loss.

i totally understand this and i am sure that people will do much more cruel things to survive than "just using this kind of trap" for animals...

 

1 hour ago, Mel Guille said:

Do you have ideas on how it might be implemented differently in the different Experience Modes?

hmm maybe a higher percentage chance of trapping a rabbit in pilgrim and a gradual lesser chance for voyager, stalker and then interloper, so that you need more traps on interloper to trap the same amount of rabbits that you get on pilgrim. <does this make sense?

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In a survival situation, a good "rule" to follow is "Be cruel to be kind".

Yes, the rabbit is going to suffer when you trap it. However, you need to eat it to survive, so it has to die. 

If that is the case, you might as well give it as quick and painless a death you can. That, almost always, means making their death as violent as possible, as it makes the animal die faster, limiting the amount of pain it feels.

However, the "type" of trap we use to snare rabbits in-game is, quite literally, one of the least "effective" methods of snaring small-game. Unless you get lucky, and the rabbit manages to get the snare around the neck as it hops through ....... the rabbit won't die very quickly, if at all. The in-game snares would, far more likely, just trap the animal in place, so it either dies from exposure or gets killed by a predator.

This is my preferred snare.

It :

1) lifts the animal off the ground, removing it from the reach of most predators, and doesn't let the animal escape.

2) It actually suffocates the animal when it goes off

As for cage-traps ..... they are horrendously cruel. Would you like to get trapped by a cage all of a sudden, the only thing you can do is wait for your death? I, for one, would take suffocation any day.

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12 hours ago, Boston123 said:

means making their death as violent as possible, as it makes the animal die faster

this makes no sense to me..

 

12 hours ago, Boston123 said:

As for cage-traps ..... they are horrendously cruel. Would you like to get trapped by a cage all of a sudden, the only thing you can do is wait for your death?

this would implement that the bunny is aware of his situation, but he isnt, he dont know that he is going to die. he is distracted, yes because he is trapped but he dont know that this is his end.

would you say a pet rabbit in a cage at your home has this fear of death because it sits in a cage? no he doesnt, because he dont know.

edit: you will know when a rabbit has fear of death (in a non natural way) because it will scream and whine so loud, that you will never forget..

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1 hour ago, farce713 said:
14 hours ago, Boston123 said:

means making their death as violent as possible, as it makes the animal die faster

this makes no sense to me..

It actually makes quite a lot of sense. ;)

The most painless way to kill a rabbit with a trap is probably a bait trap that breaks its neck with high force (given the trap works as intended and nothing goes wrong.) Like that the rabbit doesn't feel any pain at all, but simply dies within half a second. It's not getting aware of its situation and doesn't feel any fear. However, most people would probably consider neck fracture/dislocation more violent than suffocation or being trapped alive.

It's not necessarily the least violent way to trap an animal that is the best (or most "humane") technique from the animal's point of view. Especially for flight animals being trapped alive is extremely stressful and thus probably worse than dying. We must not project our own perceptions upon animals for their needs are sometimes different. We must try to anticipate what's least horrible for the animal and that's much more complicated than just thinking about what would be least horrible for us personally.

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If live traps are going to be introduced then there has to also be the potentiality of those rabbits being able to escape when you open the trap to remove it. 

As for their creation, sticks and line should suffice (versus the reclaimed wood and gut used for the snares). Just taking a rough estimate:

10 sticks for the sides (5 per side)

6 sticks for the ends (3 per end)

7 sticks for the bottom

2 gut (which would equate to 4 lines)

Say about 2 hours to construct it.

it just a thought.

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7 hours ago, farce713 said:

this makes no sense to me..

 

this would implement that the bunny is aware of his situation, but he isnt, he dont know that he is going to die. he is distracted, yes because he is trapped but he dont know that this is his end.

would you say a pet rabbit in a cage at your home has this fear of death because it sits in a cage? no he doesnt, because he dont know.

edit: you will know when a rabbit has fear of death (in a non natural way) because it will scream and whine so loud, that you will never forget..

You can't in any way compare a domesticated animal to a wild animal. Domesticated rabbits don't get scared living in a cage because they have, for millenia, been born and raised in this manner. It's what they, as a species, are adapted to. It's why you can't just release a domesticated rabbit into the wild and expect it to survive. In the same way, wild rabbits have, for even longer, been born and raised wild and are adapted to being prey and entrapment does freak them the heck out.

So, no, a rabbit caught in a box trap may not squeal the entire time, but I guarantee you it probably does when first trapped. You know what happens next? It basically goes into shock. It will be sitting there in a tight ball, wide eyed, heart pounding, and breathing rapidly. The shock might kill it, but rabbits are pretty resilient, so likely not. it might freak out again at some point, squealing and banging around, but maybe not, because it's desperately hoping not to attract a predator when it can't flee. It's definitely not sitting there obliviously munching foliage, it is under extreme stress the entire time.

45 minutes ago, farce713 said:

hmm maybe i misunderstood the word violent.. :/

 

In this case, yes. You mentioned above about the fastest way to kill small game without tools is to break its neck. That is a violent death, it is quick and brutal. That said, doing so by hand and making sure its a quick and certain death, is a practiced skill. An unskilled person is more likely to simply injure the animal without killing it. That's why others have been talking about the different kinds of snare traps that use a lot of force to insure that death is instantaneous... rapid and violent application of force in the proper manner.

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16 hours ago, SteelFire said:

You can't in any way compare a domesticated animal to a wild animal. Domesticated rabbits don't get scared living in a cage because they have, for millenia, been born and raised in this manner. It's what they, as a species, are adapted to. It's why you can't just release a domesticated rabbit into the wild and expect it to survive. In the same way, wild rabbits have, for even longer, been born and raised wild and are adapted to being prey and entrapment does freak them the heck out.

So, no, a rabbit caught in a box trap may not squeal the entire time, but I guarantee you it probably does when first trapped. You know what happens next? It basically goes into shock. It will be sitting there in a tight ball, wide eyed, heart pounding, and breathing rapidly. The shock might kill it, but rabbits are pretty resilient, so likely not. it might freak out again at some point, squealing and banging around, but maybe not, because it's desperately hoping not to attract a predator when it can't flee. It's definitely not sitting there obliviously munching foliage, it is under extreme stress the entire time.

this is why i like constructive criticism and good conversations. yeah i did know about that. i guess i mixed some informations up in my head. 

you are right. you know my grandparents used to hold 2 rabbits over the year and to christmas they needed to die. they lived in cages and in the garden the whole year and they seemed "happy".. but you are right they were no "wild" rabbits..

so i guess the cage is not the final solution? do you have any ideas what would be better?

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5 hours ago, farce713 said:

this is why i like constructive criticism and good conversations. yeah i did know about that. i guess i mixed some informations up in my head. 

you are right. you know my grandparents used to hold 2 rabbits over the year and to christmas they needed to die. they lived in cages and in the garden the whole year and they seemed "happy".. but you are right they were no "wild" rabbits..

so i guess the cage is not the final solution? do you have any ideas what would be better?

Catching live rabbits might have a use if you were able to build a larger enclosure or indoor hutch, so that you could keep and breed rabbits for longer term reasons. There are obvious game-balance issues that go with this, though.

But to be honest, I don't really see another purpose to having multiple trap-types for the same animal.

Edit: I do think there's a legitimate concern about portrayals of excessive animal cruelty in games, by the way, even if it doesn't apply to the current rabbit snares we have in TLD. But then again, shooting a bear in the arse and then having it run around in a crazed panic until it succumbs to exhaustion and blood loss could hardly be considered humane, if that's what you're worried about.

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