Animal behavior difficulty


Espiritdecorp

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I feel that the difficult should also change the behavior of animals as well as changing the overall difficulty of the game. The reason I feel this way about it is mostly due to my opinion in that animal difficulty (specifically anything higher then pilgrim mode) should scale along with survival. 

The main thing I would like to see changed is that animals will become defensive as apposed you just running away (which can stay for pilgrimage) or just attacking you on sight  (which is fine for harder difficulties)

When I say defensive I mean that animals will not attack on sight, but they will not run away and instead chose to hold their ground and will attack if you aggravate them/get to close to them. But it's not as easy as just walking away. Rather you have to face the animal and back away slowly. If you run  the animal may chase you. If you turn your back to the animal, it may take it as an opertunity for an easy meal. There is also a chance that you can scare it away by running at the animal (especially if you posses a weapon of some kind) showing your not afraid of ithe but this is something you should only save as a last resort. 

This way it's still a bit of a challenge for players looking for something more difficult then Pilgrim level but not so difficult that your have to rely on luck.

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There's no determinant luck involved in any difficulties, maybe just a inch on interloper. If you do things right you can always survive. The elements that you quote about wolves defense etc are already interconnected in a complex and meaningfull pattern, if you want to propose some change sadly you have to take in consideration everything.

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i guess what he/she is trying to say (and i feel somewhat the same) is that there is a gap, gameplay wise.

you start the game the first time on pilgrim and wolves are running away from you all the time.

that means you cannot train all the techniques you need for surviving in voyager. then you start in voyager and you want to learn wolf behaviour, but the time between "bark" and "attack" is a little bit too short for newbies (like me). if we had a few seconds after "bark" to rethink the situation, maybe reposition (get on a flat surface) and drop gut or something else it would be great to learn all these techniques you can use.

but before you can calculate the situation, maybe even before you can spot the wolf (if he is staying around a corner) the  melee fight will begin.

i would love to see a wolf who is barking 2 times and attacking not before 10 sec later on voyager..

you know just a time increase between warn and attack..

i dont know how hard this would be to implement but i know that here on this forum are a lot of post around exact the same topic so i dont know maybe there is a small problem..

i got this situation myself. i started in pilgrim and it was nice but also very easy, so i started in voyager and everything blew me away ;)

i mean why is there no blizzard in pilgrim mode the first days? i think this is one of the best parts of the game, the first blizzard. exactly all the weather effects, if you ask me pilgrim could be a lot harder weather wise, but food and water consumption i think is on pilgrim a lot more "realistic" then on voyager.

so i played voyager and had a hard time with wolves because i could not see there real behaviour in pilgrim and could not train to deal with them.

everyone needs to learn it the hard way..

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You can sometimes scare wolves away by running at them. Waving a lit flare or torch as well also helps, but shouting "RAAAAAAGGGHHHH" at the monitor doesn't seem to make any difference.

I've done this to scare wolves off their kill before, but sometimes it doesn't work and you end up in a fight, so I'd only do it if I was desperately hungry.

The game is really due an improvement pass on wildlife behaviour, I think. It's the single thing that would make the biggest positive impact on the gameplay in my view.

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4 hours ago, Pillock said:

You can sometimes scare wolves away by running at them. Waving a lit flare or torch as well also helps, but shouting "RAAAAAAGGGHHHH" at the monitor doesn't seem to make any difference.

I've done this to scare wolves off their kill before, but sometimes it doesn't work and you end up in a fight, so I'd only do it if I was desperately hungry.

The game is really due an improvement pass on wildlife behaviour, I think. It's the single thing that would make the biggest positive impact on the gameplay in my view.

So that's what I'm doing wrong? I forget to yell at the monitor! Now I know how to succeed! Thanks. ;-)

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On 1/17/2017 at 4:01 AM, togg said:

There's no determinant luck involved in any difficulties, maybe just a inch on interloper. If you do things right you can always survive. The elements that you quote about wolves defense etc are already interconnected in a complex and meaningfull pattern, if you want to propose some change sadly you have to take in consideration everything.

Actually there is a bit of chance in the game. Thus there is some form of luck. Generally if your experienced you can find a way to survive quite well but items that you scavenge in containers  (as well as some containers themselves) are random. What could have been a first aid kit in one run, is now nothing. Where you found some camp fire materials, now are just scrap metal or few repair items. The game has random containers in certain areas so luck can play a small part. Obviously it'll be different on interloper but we're talking about general idea for now. For example my first run with the new updates I found an epi-pen  (can't remeber the name of it) in the first few mins. But got caught in a bad storm and didn't make it back to shelter in time. A combination of bad luck with the storm and lack of materials made it difficult to survive. If I knew the layout of the land maybe it would have been different but I don't so luck wasn't with me then. Second run I didn't find a pen for the first week in game, but I found some tools which helped alot.

So there is some luck involved in the game in terms of searching for items as well as the weather. Like you said you can survive if you know what your doing but there's always a chance you may mess up somehow and if your not lucky you may be starting all over again.

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Now im not very good at sneaking around these guys, but i never fail at using a brand/torch/flare, unless it ran out... or wind extinguished it... heres what I know:

Most wolves give you some time before they go into "attack" mode, it usually depends on if you were running at the time and if you were looking at them (they attack runners because thats how prey would act i guess), dont look too far away from them but find something that can block their view of you. back away and dont sprint until you're out of their line of sight, look for hills and rocks that can cover you. if you re-enter their line of sight, just face them and back up more, if you cant reach shelter or lose them, drop bait, or bring out a flare or torch.

If you choose to drop bait, you have a very small window to do this if you waited until now, but itll work if its between you and them, if theyre already too close, theyll ignore it, and it wont work. Youll have to get a "feel" for this distance yourself though.

Now the trick is with flares/torches is to not get too close, wait until they're holding their ground outside the light, then walk/burst forward when you brandish it, if they advance towards you, back up quickly, and then swing and advance again AFTER theyve stopped again. Do NOT get too close to them, and back up after you finish your flailing. If they hold their ground, keep trying or just simply walk away with the flare in hand, youll have an annoying follower, but you only have to brandish if he gets too bold. 

If you have a brand, stay in windblocked paths and walk away backwards and sprint away once you're out of their sight, or use the brand as a means to start a fire/keep them back while you place bait, brands are no good at brandishing, ironically.

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On 2017. 01. 17. at 7:13 AM, Espiritdecorp said:

I feel that the difficult should also change the behavior of animals as well as changing the overall difficulty of the game. The reason I feel this way about it is mostly due to my opinion in that animal difficulty (specifically anything higher then pilgrim mode) should scale along with survival. 

The main thing I would like to see changed is that animals will become defensive as apposed you just running away (which can stay for pilgrimage) or just attacking you on sight  (which is fine for harder difficulties)

When I say defensive I mean that animals will not attack on sight, but they will not run away and instead chose to hold their ground and will attack if you aggravate them/get to close to them. But it's not as easy as just walking away. Rather you have to face the animal and back away slowly. If you run  the animal may chase you. If you turn your back to the animal, it may take it as an opertunity for an easy meal. There is also a chance that you can scare it away by running at the animal (especially if you posses a weapon of some kind) showing your not afraid of ithe but this is something you should only save as a last resort. 

This way it's still a bit of a challenge for players looking for something more difficult then Pilgrim level but not so difficult that your have to rely on luck.

Well, I agree.

There are two things I don't understand. First, carnivores are simply careless, attacking permanently, no matter if I'm shotting them on pile. They should/could be more cautious. Second, as for game modes outside Pilgrim, a simple shot in the air should scare them away for a certain time - which length would depend on the game mode. (As far as I know, there is no rifle in Interloper.)

But if you start a campfire, they are fleeing, just to return after a short time, then flee again... I found, that in Interloper I can do this: I scare a deer towards a wolf, trying to stay in safe distance. It catches the deer, then I walk closer. As soon as the wolf notices me, approaches, leaving the deer carcass. Now I have to be quick and precise: I start a fire, and the wolf is scared away, running around in despair for a short time. I immediately press Esc (the fire is not burning and never will... :)) and sprint to the deer carcass. There I start a new campfire - really. As long as the fire is on, all the wolves will be always scared away, and I can harvest and cook the meat. Sadly, it works only if there is no wind during the whole process, but it's not impossible.

I'm not smart enough in using the flares/torches, I always got attacked. :)

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2 hours ago, palbi said:

Well, I agree.

There are two things I don't understand. First, carnivores are simply careless, attacking permanently, no matter if I'm shotting them on pile. They should/could be more cautious. Second, as for game modes outside Pilgrim, a simple shot in the air should scare them away for a certain time - which length would depend on the game mode. (As far as I know, there is no rifle in Interloper.)

But if you start a campfire, they are fleeing, just to return after a short time, then flee again... I found, that in Interloper I can do this: I scare a deer towards a wolf, trying to stay in safe distance. It catches the deer, then I walk closer. As soon as the wolf notices me, approaches, leaving the deer carcass. Now I have to be quick and precise: I start a fire, and the wolf is scared away, running around in despair for a short time. I immediately press Esc (the fire is not burning and never will... :)) and sprint to the deer carcass. There I start a new campfire - really. As long as the fire is on, all the wolves will be always scared away, and I can harvest and cook the meat. Sadly, it works only if there is no wind during the whole process, but it's not impossible.

I'm not smart enough in using the flares/torches, I always got attacked. :)

Yeah, lighting fires is a total fail-safe. If it is windy, you usually have time to run behind a rock so that your fire is sheltered (but obviously this only works for generally defending yourself, and not when harvesting a stolen wolf kill unless you're lucky and the carcass happens to be sheltered from wind). I think this system needs a bit of tweaking, because lighting fires is very cheap on resources, and much safer than using flares or torches, which are comparatively precious.

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21 hours ago, Pillock said:

"lighting fires is very cheap on resources"

Not so, if you think it over. Once you used all of your matches, you are left alone with the magnifying lens, which needs clean sunlight. So any kind of bad weather knocks you out, furthermore any building outside the fishing huts (a.f.a.i.k.) are also out of competition. We would need flint-stones (caves, mines) or that method when a birch bark rubbed fast with a stick. Anyway, one can survive 1k days or 10k, without alternative options lighting fire is not as bright.

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On 1/17/2017 at 5:45 AM, Pillock said:

You can sometimes scare wolves away by running at them. Waving a lit flare or torch as well also helps, but shouting "RAAAAAAGGGHHHH" at the monitor doesn't seem to make any difference.

One of my favorite moments came when Astrid and I both said at the same time "Its you or me, wolf" :)

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