Frostbite needs more player feedback

[sarudak]

Getting frostbite is a serious serious penalty. Permanent condition reduction is very painful.

I have now gotten frostbite four times on my stalker game. Every single time I didn't even realize I was at risk until the frostbit affliction popped up. I had all the resources available to start a fire and prevent the frostbite I just didn't realize I was at risk. This is very frustrating as a player because I feel cheated. All my bars were full and I saw no warnings, went to sleep at positive temp and bam frostbite. The player needs a constant clear and visible indicator that they are at risk for frostbite.

PS: Does anyone know how to edit save files to remove frostbite? I keep ending up with Data Corrupt.

[Goggs]

Was it on your extremities? Did you have glove/boots on?

I thought my character would suffer after I was mid way up a climb and had to rest on a ledge in a blizzard at -33. Had to strip off extra layers for the climb too but didn't get any frostbite.

[sarudak]

I get it in Forlorn Muskeg because my feet get wet sometimes because of weak ice. The thing is it can be really hard to remember that you have that problem since all your status bars will be fine and there's no on screen reminder.

[Scyzara]

14 hours ago, sarudak said:

PS: Does anyone know how to edit save files to remove frostbite? I keep ending up with Data Corrupt.

Talking about save file manipulations is forbidden on the forums. Please stop asking for advice regarding this matter.

8 hours ago, sarudak said:

I get it in Forlorn Muskeg because my feet get wet sometimes because of weak ice. The thing is it can be really hard to remember that you have that problem since all your status bars will be fine and there's no on screen reminder.

Does your first aid icon (space bar -> cross symbol) change color when you're at a frostbite risk? There should also be a (one time) on screen warning in red letters that you're at risk for frostbite.

[nicko]

9 hours ago, sarudak said:

I get it in Forlorn Muskeg because my feet get wet sometimes because of weak ice. The thing is it can be really hard to remember that you have that problem since all your status bars will be fine and there's no on screen reminder.

This is why I want a quick tab menu of some sort to see if clothing is getting wet.

Basically you need to dry your clothes near a fire or take them off and or replace them with dry clothing to avoid frostbite.

[Scyzara]

1 hour ago, nicko said:

This is why I want a quick tab menu of some sort to see if clothing is getting wet.

Erm, there actually is such a thing: The paper doll interface (shortcut C).

The dark blue bar on your clothes indicates their current wetness (screenshot 1).

If a clothing item is entirely dark blue (=100% wet), it will then start to freeze. This is indicated by a light blue bar on top of the dark blue bar (see screenshot 2).

So having a look at the paper doll (= pressing C) every now and then to see if your clothes are wet or even frozen is very important since the Resolute Outfitter update. Especially if you're running around on thin ice or during blizzards.

PS: Geez, I just had my character fall through week ice on purpose for these screenshots! I hope they're at least helpful to both of you. xD

[sarudak]

I understand I can do that but having to look at a completely different screen just to check on that one thing doesn't seem reasonable. I don't need to know if my clothes are getting wet just if I'm at risk for an ailment and what progress it's at. Every other ailment risk is either so urgent that you need to respond to it immediately (bleeding, infection), is directly related to one of the bars you can see (hypothermia), or is something you can't really respond to at all (parasite risk). Frostbite risk is just too easy not to notice because the disconnect between when my boots get wet and when I get frostbite is too long. I stepped through the ice and had wet boots but I knew I had several hours so I killed the bear like I wanted to. I probably missed the risk warning sometime when I was harvesting the carcasses. Totally forget my boots are frozen, get back and check my status (tab), everything looks good, go to sleep suddenly 2 instances of frostbite and well on my way to a third. It just feels completely broken that I can completely forget my character's feet are frozen. And to add insult to injury the affliction is permanent.

[SteelFire]

The real issue, from my perspective isn't the wetness or freezing itself, but that we have a method of getting our boots and socks soaked that doesn't provide any indication to the player. If it's snowing out, we know our clothes are going to get wet. If we fall through weak ice, we have a screen blank and know our clothes have gotten wet.

However, you can sprint across weak ice and there's a random chance of getting your feet soaked, all without any visual or audio indication. That's where the real disconnect is and that's where we keep seeing this same feedback originating from. If we simply had a visual or audible indication that we put a foot through the ice, then that should be enough warning.

[sarudak]

On 1/8/2017 at 2:40 PM, diggity said:

Having a label "feels like" is misleading because you still have to go looking for that.  Seeing equals feeling in this game or any game.  So show us what's wrong, and don't make us go look for it.  Your body gives you immediate feedback, so should the game in this case.

 

 

I think this is really the root of the issue. The player should never have an affliction happen to them that a normal person would have felt happening to them without knowing that it was happening to them.

[togg]

There could be a yellow cross after the affliction get to 50% and audio feedbacks from the character. It should be enough. I personally don't have this problem but it doesn't seem fair and in line with the other things.

[thekillergreece]

Frostbite affliction really suck... Why should it apply permanent condition loss? What's the point of that?

[Vinceofpyrenees]

I like it. It brings introspection on strengh and weakness character. It's also brings crucial survival choices to avoid it. Because we are in a survival game (and it's dose of realism), this dramatic punishment from the wilderness is needed.

[Timber Wolf]

4 hours ago, thekillergreece said:

Frostbite affliction really suck... Why should it apply permanent condition loss? What's the point of that?

"Superficial frostbite corresponds to first-degree or second-degree frostbite....If frostbite is superficial, over time new pink skin will form underneath the scabs. It can take up to six months for the area to recover. There can be full recovery but some people have permanent problems, including pain, numbness and stiffness in the affected area." - except from patient.info

Even with only superficial frostbite, permanent problems can occur.  With 3rd or 4th degree frostbite, your affected appendages will separate and fall off your body, or need to be surgically removed.

[Timber Wolf]

On 1/8/2017 at 5:16 AM, nicko said:

This is why I want a quick tab menu of some sort to see if clothing is getting wet.

I don't see what the problem is.  As @Scyzara mentioned - just press C, and you instantly have a visual of your entire clothing situation.

I prefer they keep the quick tab menu as minimal as possible.

[zParticle]

My first character since Alpha .386 got hypothermia, then frostbite before she even found her first shelter.  She's gone 90 days now with that permanent disability, a constant reminder of her dangerous environment.  I think it's great if it usually works that way: the end result of not dealing with your primary conditions (freezing, then hypothermia).  If it can truly come out of the blue as you describe, then I agree that more warnings in the form of audible complaints from your character would help.  I think you already get an on-screen alert that you're "AT RISK FOR FROSTBITE" along with its accompanying warning status on the health tab.

[Vinceofpyrenees]

2 hours ago, zParticle said:

My first character since Alpha .386 got hypothermia, then frostbite before she even found her first shelter.  She's gone 90 days now with that permanent disability, a constant reminder of her dangerous environment.  I think it's great if it usually works that way: the end result of not dealing with your primary conditions (freezing, then hypothermia).  If it can truly come out of the blue as you describe, then I agree that more warnings in the form of audible complaints from your character would help.  I think you already get an on-screen alert that you're "AT RISK FOR FROSTBITE" along with its accompanying warning status on the health tab.

We already have "at risk at frosbite". (for me in french : risque de gelure)

[Pillock]

6 hours ago, diggity said:

You shouldn't have to press anything.   I hate to drag other games into this, but let's take ESO for example.  You're in a fight and when your health gets low a big red border surrounds the frame, impossible to miss.  What if, while fighting, you're like, hey what's my health? And you had to press a button to see your health status.  How long would the player base tolerate that?  About .3 seconds?  Or a little red icon pops up when an enchantment wears off, stuff like that, that you might not notice otherwise.

Well this whole game is a long protracted fight, not just with wolves.   As they have pointed out, "Mother Nature doesn't like you....". 

Pressing buttons is what breaks immersion for me. Obviously they have good indicators when health is low here, but there should be more warnings. Basically I want to see my health status at all times (or at least the option to have it). What's more important, seeing the pretty snow and trees or knowing what your health is at?

I don't know much about enchantments, but I think I agree with you. 

What I'd like to see is the audio/visual effects that kick in when you go below 10% Condition expand upon. Icon-based HUDs are best kept to a minimum, I think, and Hinterland have done a good job of balancing the display of critical information without it getting in the way of the environment too much.

I think it would be better if the visual blurring and dulled audio was scaled so that the effects started as soon as you began losing Condition at 99%, and got slowly worse towards 0. They could even expand it to give colour variations to indicate why you're losing Condition (eg. A blue-ish hue if you're freezing, grey if you're dehydrated, red if you're bleeding, etc).

That way, you'd get a constant - and much more visceral - feel of how bad your character's health is, without having to check health bars, percentage read-outs or other interface screens.

You could anyways have the option to look at the interface as well, especially while you're learning what the visual indicators mean, but I think it would add a lot to immersion while reducing the need for icons and HUD readings cluttering up the screen. 

[nicko]

yeh i guess it's a learning game in a way if you go out in when it's snowing /raining your coming back wet as. Therefore atm it up to you to work out what weather gets you wet.

 

[SteelFire]

42 minutes ago, diggity said:

I don't see HUD readings as clutter at all, just the opposite. I think it's vital information that you should always see, with the option of turning it off, if so inclined.  If I had it my way, the survival bar would be a toggle on the left side and in the same HUD I would put the all the temperature info on the right, "feels like" and all that. 

And I would remove the paper doll entirely, because they're repeating the same information, basically, as what we already see in inventory->clothes.  Add a drop down arrow or so for dual layering.  Keep it simple.  I would add a little blue foot icon for a frostbite warning.   We have the audio warning for certain things, yes, but but the time my guy says "I could really use a drink" I feel like it's too late and I should have known that already.

There are audibles for cold, hunger, and thirst long before they get down to the point where the player starts saying things.

I still just want an audible indication, be it environmental sound or player verbalization, to indicate you put a foot through thin ice. It's a completely unacknowledged event at this point; one that you'd certainly know happened in reality.

[Oobarsten]

I know this thread is old but I've been out of the loop when it comes to TLD for several months now, yet I still wanted to put my two cents in on this subject.

It seems/sounds like Frostbite warns you just enough were if you're paying attention you'll notice it in time, but not to much which kinda resembles the ailment itself.  It can suddenly happen unless you're on top of your overall status/interface.  If you're not vigilant you may end up with frostbite.  Seems pretty realistic to me.

My major concern, and overall purpose for writing this, is I don't like the 'permanent' part of the ailment.  I love the hit to ones condition, don't get me wrong.  I just don't feel it should be forever permanent.  I can tell the ailment was designed to be hard hitting.  That's what it was designed for, and in the end it should stay in form of difficulty/penalty.  Permanent is to damaging in my opinion.

My suggestion is the player gets  -10% condition that slowly recovers over a large amount of time.  Lets say 100-365 in game days.  That way the ailment can still be overcome, eventually, but it still tacks on the drastic penalty warranted to getting frostbite.

That's my two cents.