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Drifter Man

Snowballs in Hell

187 posts in this topic

18 hours ago, mystifeid said:

Afaik, a bedroll never spawns in TWM so sleeping in a cave is out and there is very little cloth for a snow shelter unless you can find a hacksaw then open the closest container containing clothes which I think is near the engine below the three way cave - this is a bit of a mission in a normal Interloper game. A mag glass does sometimes spawn in the hut but I can't remember what other combinations of useful items spawn with it. And twenty hour fires makes it sound like there may not always be much chance to sleep in the day without a fire. Harvesting snared rabbits will usually require a fire without a hacksaw - a fire that would be better spent harvesting a deer killed by a wolf.

@Drifter Man I notice that you do not start by going to the cave half way between the fallen tree bridge and the rope to Deer Clearing where there is often a piece or two of cedar - any reason?

In my experience, you get exactly one of the following items: hacksaw, hammer, mag lens. The hammer is sometimes found in the fishing hut instead of the building.

As for the cave, the reason is that I wasn't aware of it at the time of posting :) I noticed it accidentally later. Yes, it's definitely worth taking a look inside.

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Posted (edited)

So, as I mentioned, Snowball 26 is also dead. I don't think I will try again to surpass Snowball 18's 11-day record of living in the Mountaineer's Hut, but the system works and in theory, it should allow a survivor to last as long as matches allow (provided he can get some extra food from a wolf kill without dying in the process, which is something in which I keep failing). Okay, here's the system:

  • Go to bed in the morning, either with the remaining fire from last night or when the temperatures are high enough; 9 hours of daylight remaining will generally work. Sleep for 9 hours straight to heal by 27-28%.
  • Don't worry if blizzard comes during sleep. Your character can sleep safely through a blizzard, but it's an exploit, actually. Ever noticed that it takes some time (ca 20-30 seconds in real life) for temperature to decrease to the final level at the onset of a blizzard? Well, it takes the same 20-30 seconds when you sleep or just pass time, except that the in-game time runs much faster. Therefore, the blizzard is over well before the temperature changes by too much. Just don't go to bed if the blizzard has already started!
  • You may add some more sleep at dusk and in the early night, or just pass time in bed until it's too cold and your character would start freezing. This is typically with 5-6 hours of darkness left. Then start your fire, stoke it up to last up to ca 2 hours into the morning, make water, warm up.
  • Get outside and make your rounds for sticks. It is good to know the places where sticks are abundant by heart. Take notes of where you went, because it may take 2-3 days before the sticks respawn. Plan your long trips to control condition loss - Whiteberry's map like the one below, in spoiler section, will help you. Areas close to the hut can be harvested without condition loss, just return to the hut fast enough. Harvest branches in the nearby zones if it doesn't cost you condition, but leave branches alone if they are far. When you are freezing, taking a branch apart will cost you 3-4% condition, too much to be worthwhile. Run to minimize loss of heat and condition, and to get tired for sleep.
  • It may be a good idea to warm up outside the hut, near the wall at the fireplace, to avoid cabin fever.
  • When the sun goes up, if you aren't too tired, you can go to the lake and collect some cattails, or gather sticks on the opposite shore. Don't recommend to do it at night (wolves patrolling).
  • Even if you employ starvation (no other way here, really), you will need some other food than just cattails after Day 15 or so, at the latest.
  • Note that since weather is getting gradually worse and sticks respawn at a gradually slower rate, these outside conditions may eventually limit you in your ability to survive, rather than matches or food.

As I said, I won't be trying this with another snowball. Because I checked the snow shelter. It gives a 15°C bonus, so it's equivalent to the hut with bed. It can be placed anywhere, but 5 pieces cloth are a huge investment that you cannot really afford unless you get into that container at the Engine. Still, the snow shelter brings me to probably the most badass idea ever conceived in the history of TLD. You may not hear from me for a while, I'll be busy :ph34r:

 

TimberwolfMountainSF.png

Edit: this is one of Whiteberry's maps with locations often having many sticks. Red color marks those that I visited last night - these incidentally are those that are close to base and can be used with small or no condition loss. Yellow ones were visited two night ago, and green ones three or more nights ago. These will almost certainly have new sticks. This helps avoiding costly trips to places that have no sticks.

Edited by Drifter Man
Forgot the map
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32 minutes ago, Drifter Man said:

Still, the snow shelter brings me to probably the most badass idea ever conceived in the history of TLD.

I must be missing something - what do the hidden contents mean?

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1 hour ago, Drifter Man said:

You may not hear from me for a while, I'll be busy

Can't wait to see what you've cooked up this time! 

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4 hours ago, Drifter Man said:

Can you elaborate? If I start a fire, I need to put in 3 sticks to take out a brand. In ca 20 in-game minutes I can start another one from the brand with at least 3 sticks... I don't think this saves firewood. What am I missing?

You're missing the fact that I got it wrong, I think. (Or perhaps you're not, but are just too polite to say so outright.)

I was thinking that brands last 30 minutes, whereas sticks in fires last 10 - so you could keep repeating small 2-stick fires and relighting them with the brand to prolong stick burntime. But any idiot can see that this is bollocks: such a fire would not allow you to do anything useful like make water or even warm up, making it utterly useless. And you'd lose any burntime gained by the fact that... it wouldn't work. Sorry.

The only use you can get from similar tactics is for carrying a flame from one place to another on a calm day using relay fires, or to hold a brand in your hand while sitting next to a fire in order to get an extra 5°C warmth bonus in addition to the fire's. I do both of these things sometimes.

To me, it seems that you will need to develop infinite fire. The mag lens gives you this (in theory, at least), and therefore infinite warmth and water. If you don't get a mag lens, then you'd need perpetual fire, which may not be possible (150 sticks a day?!). Even if it is, then is certainly isn't possible until you've had time to build up a very large excess stockpile of fuel - and can 24 or 36 matches last you that long?

You can stay warm at the cave, but not sleep; you can sleep at the hut but not stay warm (for long enough, seemingly). Can you combine the two effectively while you eke out a fuel surplus? Perhaps a snow shelter near the cave is a temporary solution, but they require maintenance in the long term (more cloth? I don't know, because I've never really utilized them).

As for food, the hammer allows fishing, but only for as long as the scrap metal for making hooks lasts, so it's the worst of the 3 tools. Nevertheless, if you get a hammer, you might as well use it for this while you can, I think. Otherwise, it has to be rabbits: wolf-killed deer are too dangerous to be reliable unless you find a way to exploit the wolf AI every time (and this will probably spoil the game for you forever - or until it gets fixed!). The hacksaw will help with carcass harvesting, as well as allowing access to the containers - but it too will only last as long as the scrap metal to mend it. I don't know what availability is like?

You can't kill wolves except in hand-to-paw combat (not desirable, but possible if/when you're fit and strong?), so your clothing options are probably limited to deer and rabbit skins - these are worth working towards, but maybe not a priority early on, given how difficult basic survival is.

This is all theoretical, of course: my own record on TWM Interloper is certainly not beyond double figures... and I'm talking about hours. I just don't know the map very well, and that's a pretty essential thing for Interloper. I've tried it a few times in the last couple of days, but to be honest I get fed up with having to repeatedly quit and restart when I get given the wrong map on about 8/10 attempts - I don't know how you're able to cope with that!

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11 hours ago, Pillock said:

but to be honest I get fed up with having to repeatedly quit and restart when I get given the wrong map on about 8/10 attempts - I don't know how you're able to cope with that!

This bugs me too, so I create a copy of the game save right away if I want to attempt a challenge repeatedly on a particular map.  As soon as any game begins the save is immediately created, so by making a copy you can just play from that same starting point over and over again.  The loot you find isn't determined until the moment you enter a region or an interior, which means you will find newly randomized loot each time you start that game save.

That being said, the loot you find "outside" in the region in which you spawn will always be the same.  To get around this, all you have to do is delete the only file (for the region you started in) that will be inside the scenes.zip file, then you will always get a clean slate.

Now with all of that said, there may still be an exception.  I am not yet sure, but it seems like in Interloper the bedroll spawn locations are being determined immediately upon the start of every game and are not controlled by the same file (scenes.zip) as all of the other loot.  So, if you do what I have outlined, you may always find it in the exact same place.  I haven't tried it enough yet to find out for sure.

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Posted (edited)

The snow shelter is a good idea, indeed.  Not much warmer, if at all, than the hut but can still you sleep during the warmest weather.  If you could build one close to a loading screen cave you'd be able to dodge in there to warm up without fire.

I've never checked the deer carcass spawn on 'loper, but there are a few close to the hut on the other difficulties.  The wing usually has at least one, plus a few wolves.  On the overlook above the frozen creek at the other end of the lake -- that one is wolf-free.  Another, occasionally, on the "high" path to the wing.  Often wolves there too.  And stealing a kill on the lake if chance favors you, of course.

UPDATE: just checked the "overlook" carcass, it's there on interloper.  2 guts, a hide, a half kilo of meat, zero wolves.   I made my water there while it thawed.  But this sandbox rolled "magnifier" so I guess that means no hacksaw? 

I agree a couple pieces of gut are a good priority, if you can manage it.  Rabbit traps, fishing line, decoy, clothing crafting.  Can't go wrong with guts! :P

Edited by Ruruwawa
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Posted (edited)

I wonder. If you got the hacksaw you might possibly be able to make it to the summit by making use of snow shelters...

I think long term snow shelter + cave would be your best bet for getting the longest survival time on interloper. You can sleep during the day and pass time in the cave during the night or blizzards to stay warm. That said I haven't actually tried it.

Edited by sarudak
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On 1/5/2017 at 3:01 AM, Pillock said:

you'd need perpetual fire, which may not be possible (150 sticks a day?!)

8 sticks give you an hour, 182 sticks would be needed per day. I am consistently able to collect about 60 sticks per day, if I wanted more, I would start bleeding condition. A permanent fire is not realistic in TWM-Interloper, in my opinion.

On 1/5/2017 at 3:01 AM, Pillock said:

You can stay warm at the cave, but not sleep; you can sleep at the hut but not stay warm (for long enough, seemingly). Can you combine the two effectively while you eke out a fuel surplus? Perhaps a snow shelter near the cave is a temporary solution, but they require maintenance in the long term (more cloth? I don't know, because I've never really utilized them).

I think it could work. As long as you maintain it regularly, you only need sticks for repair. Sleeping in the day, then waiting out the night in a cave wouldn't leave you much time to do anything else, though. At the moment I don't want to try this, it doesn't sound very exciting :)

On 1/5/2017 at 3:01 AM, Pillock said:

The hacksaw will help with carcass harvesting, as well as allowing access to the containers - but it too will only last as long as the scrap metal to mend it. I don't know what availability is like?

The hacksaw will probably outlive any snowball - it only wears out slowly if used to cut meat. You'd need a toolbox to repair it, in addition to scrap metal. I found a toolbox in the hut. Once. In 20+ attempts.

On 1/5/2017 at 3:01 AM, Pillock said:

You can't kill wolves except in hand-to-paw combat (not desirable, but possible if/when you're fit and strong?)

In my experience, every wolf fight on Interloper has left me dead, even if I was strong. You have no weapon (except heavy hammer, but that's not strong enough), and the condition loss is so serious that you'll die even if you survive the fight itself. I don't even make bandages, it's pointless.

On 1/5/2017 at 3:01 AM, Pillock said:

so your clothing options are probably limited to deer and rabbit skins - these are worth working towards, but maybe not a priority early on, given how difficult basic survival is.

That's how I see it, although I'm also starting to see options to extend my life for long enough for the material to cure. One thing is clear to me already: you don't get decent pre-made clothes from containers. Crafting is the only chance to improve your clothing.

On 1/5/2017 at 3:01 AM, Pillock said:

I've tried it a few times in the last couple of days, but to be honest I get fed up with having to repeatedly quit and restart when I get given the wrong map on about 8/10 attempts - I don't know how you're able to cope with that!

I'm persistent :)

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On 1/5/2017 at 9:25 PM, Ruruwawa said:

The snow shelter is a good idea, indeed.  Not much warmer, if at all, than the hut but can still you sleep during the warmest weather.  If you could build one close to a loading screen cave you'd be able to dodge in there to warm up without fire.

Yes, it's a game-changer, actually. Thanks @Pillock for the idea!

On 1/5/2017 at 9:25 PM, Ruruwawa said:

I've never checked the deer carcass spawn on 'loper, but there are a few close to the hut on the other difficulties.  The wing usually has at least one, plus a few wolves.  On the overlook above the frozen creek at the other end of the lake -- that one is wolf-free.  Another, occasionally, on the "high" path to the wing.  Often wolves there too.  And stealing a kill on the lake if chance favors you, of course.

UPDATE: just checked the "overlook" carcass, it's there on interloper.  2 guts, a hide, a half kilo of meat, zero wolves.   I made my water there while it thawed.  But this sandbox rolled "magnifier" so I guess that means no hacksaw? 

I agree a couple pieces of gut are a good priority, if you can manage it.  Rabbit traps, fishing line, decoy, clothing crafting.  Can't go wrong with guts! :P

It looks much safer than getting guts from a wolf kill. I'll start looking for them.

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On 1/5/2017 at 10:13 PM, sarudak said:

I wonder. If you got the hacksaw you might possibly be able to make it to the summit by making use of snow shelters...

That's the badass idea :)

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On 1/4/2017 at 11:19 PM, Timber Wolf said:

I must be missing something - what do the hidden contents mean?

I'm sorry, my mistake - the hidden contents have nothing to do with the last sentence. I now added a description to the map to explain it.

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Posted (edited)

Snowball 27 is the baddest snowball of all snowballs so far. He's been to the summit - and back.

Originally I had thought that the summit was out of reach in TWM-only games. But the snow shelter changed this. After my Snowball 27 spawned above Crystal Lake - one hour before dawn, freezing cold - I quickly reached the hut (I was actually forced to go down the rope by an approaching wolf) and found the hacksaw inside. I spent the day gathering sticks and cattails while maintaining high condition, and on the next day I was on my way to check the nearby containers. I got the usual food cans from the one at the Wing, while the one at the Engine mostly contained useless shoes - but also two pairs of socks and a pair of jeans that could be worn for now and turned into cloth later. I returned to base via the "engine-to-engine" cave, deploying a rope at the second engine to make a shortcut. I brought back the second box of matches along with lots of firewood, but I disposed of those shoes.

s27_1.jpg

The hatch is the place where I keep my treasures... and nothing is more precious out here than fuel! Just looking at this picture warms me up :)

Impatient, I wanted to set out for the summit on the next day, but *fortunately* I was stopped in my tracks by a blizzard. It cost me some of my firewood reserve, but at least I gave myself the chance to heal properly. I left a day later than planned but at 92% condition.

s27_2.jpg

Heading straight to the Fallen tree bridge and the Deer Clearing, I enjoyed the quiet morning with light fog and still winds. The Deer Clearing offered a third container with three cans of tomato soup. After that I climbed up to the Secluded Shelf and through the cave, gathering some more coals on the way. On the far end of the cave, below the summit, I started a fire and tore some of my clothes to make those five pieces of cloth. In the late afternoon, my snow shelter stood just opposite the cave exit.

I rested and tried to heal in the shelter during the night, but it was too cold and I couldn't keep a fire at the shelter due to strong winds. Therefore, I returned to the cave and waited until the day. I didn't feel ready for the summit and wanted to rest some more, but a blizzard broke out and I had to remain in the cave. I slept again in the shelter in the afternoon and into the night.

Running out of fire and food, I realized I had to push for the summit in the night. With 6 hours left of darkness, I made my way to the top, taking a picture from the ledge.

s27_3.jpg

At the top I went to a cave on the right hand-side first, to start a fire and warm up. There was a nice guy inside, who gave me a piece of cedar and some antibiotics. I tried to collect some firewood around but it was too cold and too dark to do that efficiently. I had to wait for daylight anyway. I knew I couldn't stay for long if I ever wanted to return!

s27_4.jpg

In the morning I finally went to the plane wreck to search it for contraband.

 
  • Container 1: 2 x pinnacle peaches, 2 x pork & beans. Thanks for that.
  • Container 2: 2 x leather shoes, 3 x running shoes. Useless junk.
  • Container 3: Antibiotics, painkillers, antiseptic, 1 x bandage. The painkillers will come in handy.
  • Container 4: 2 x herbal tea, 1 x tin of coffee. Both will save my life, right now.
  • On the floor: emergency stim, newspaper, 2 x wood matches (24 total), 2 x accelerant, flare pistol with 8 flares.

The matches are the best find. Flare pistol could be used to safely steal wolf kills. Accelerant and emergency stim could also save my life... if I could remember that I have them, as we shall soon see.

Overloaded, exhausted, freezing and in rapidly dropping condition, I drank two cups of coffee and roped down again, heading straight for the shelter. I tried to heal but probably didn't eat enough calories to feed my struggling body. I woke up rested but at 8% condition, nearly freezing again. I moved to the cave to warm up during the night and returned to the shelter again for the day. With the help of tea, I managed to heal back to about 35%. It had to be enough, for I was nearly out of food and firewood at this point.

Mistake #1: I didn't dismantle the shelter, abandoning 3 precious pieces of cloth. With 4 hours of daylight left I grabbed a rope that I had prepared for my return journey and went down to the clearing near Eric's Falls. Thick fog fell and I was soon freezing again. Avoiding a wolf patrolling the place, I deployed my rope the go further down river, towards the second Engine. There I grabbed a few cattails - running away twice from a wolf that I could hear but could not see - and, warming up by another fire in the "engine-to-engine" cave, I took my prepared shortcut towards the hut. The journey was quick, but not quick enough. Mistake #2: I didn't use the emergency stim. I entered the hut at 4% condition but couldn't locate the fireplace in the fuzzy darkness. Mistake #3: It took the idea 10-20 seconds to come up before I lit a match to illuminate the interior. At 2% condition I started with the fire. Mistake #4: I didn't use accelerant. I died.

s27_5.jpg

All in all, the summit is worth the risk, as long as you survive to tell the story. There are no great treasures - I hoped for some quality clothes, some MRE, firestrikers, things that would really help you in this situation - but the flare pistol and the matches alone can extend your life. The rest is there just to help you get back.

Edited by Drifter Man
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I don't know if you know this but Graxter advocates starting Interloper on TWM and then quickly moving off from there. See the Videos->Youtube for a link to his video. At first I thought this could have been written by the Graxter but maybe he took his notes from here! The hacksaw is becoming the tool of choice!

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19 hours ago, SteveP said:

I don't know if you know this but Graxter advocates starting Interloper on TWM and then quickly moving off from there. See the Videos->Youtube for a link to his video. At first I thought this could have been written by the Graxter but maybe he took his notes from here! The hacksaw is becoming the tool of choice!

It's a very good video. Apart from the fact that containers have two compartments, I learned that you can rest for 10 hours straight rather than 9, before starting to actually lose condition from dehydration. The dehydration level always spooked me. With the extra hour you can get about 4% condition back from your sleep. Together with my method of collecting sticks at night, this makes survival in the Mountaineer's Hut almost easy... almost.

Other than that, I understand that getting all the cattails and other stuff makes TWM a good starting point in interloper. I also agree that Mountaineer's Hut is a deathtrap, and that leaving TWM is the best advice. Here I'm just trying to see how long I can survive in the deathtrap - I decided for myself that I want to have my game TWM-only.

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I gave Snowball 28 a go, although he didn't get hacksaw, and therefore there wasn't much to do. I got the guts from the carcass from the overlook above Crystal Lake (thanks @Ruruwawa) but again, I was killed by a wolf that was accidentally catapulted in my direction by an event beyond my control - wolf's pursuit of a deer, this time. As soon as the deer was killed just a few meters off my feet, the wolf made a beeline for me. A shame, because Snowball 28 otherwise had a good start and soon he would be able to snare rabbits.

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Posted (edited)

Amazing run, @Drifter Man 

The distress pistol at the summit is game changer #2... with 8 rounds, no less.  Wow, I had no idea!

You can kill a wolf with the distress pistol....

 

...if you shoot it in the face.   I know you aren't a twitch player but neither am I. :)  I saw this from @panic4u on reddit, and decided to give it a try.   I practiced it first in Voyageur with the Ravine pistol to get the hang of it.  It's been awesome to get a wolf coat in Interloper.

Quote

Find lone wolf, drop Fresh Guts decoy and take a few steps back. Now shoot wolf in face (be aware the Distress Pistol has a wicked kick so always aim lower than your target). If you hit wolf in face, wolf drop dead. If you hit wolf in body, well then, enjoy the show.

Despite the "wolf drop dead" claim, I hit the wolf in the face and often it runs around a bit before it dies.  But I've never had one not die if I hit it.  And apparently the wolf doesn't recognize the distress pistol as a weapon so getting a good (which for my poor skills mean very close) shot is usually possible.

Edited by Ruruwawa
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9 minutes ago, Ruruwawa said:

You can kill a wolf with the distress pistol....

You can also kill a bear with one shot.  Let him walk up to you and just as he stands up, fire into his body.  As long as the flare sticks to him, he will bleed out and die.  IT's even more fun to shoot him in the face just before he stands up!  It is my preferred bear killing method, because it's so easy.

I have killed many wolves by shooting them in the face - they drop dead on the spot!

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Posted (edited)

Ability to kill bear means ability to make bedroll, and therefore having more choice over sleeping locations as well as potentially saving a lot of fuel/matches - as long as you can stay alive long enough to cure the materials and make it! If you have access to enough mushrooms and/or antibiotics, eating the bear is also worth the parasites risk (especially if you're used to spending a lot of time below 100% condition anyway).

Edited by Pillock
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3 hours ago, Timber Wolf said:

they drop dead on the spot!

They don't always drop dead on the spot for me, dunno why.   But they always die.

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2 hours ago, Pillock said:

Ability to kill bear means ability to make bedroll, and therefore having more choice over sleeping locations as well as potentially saving a lot of fuel/matches - as long as you can stay alive long enough to cure the materials and make it! If you have access to enough mushrooms and/or antibiotics, eating the bear is also worth the parasites risk (especially if you're used to spending a lot of time below 100% condition anyway).

This might actually work, although it is probably just a theoretical option. It is true that with a bearskin bedroll and the option to rest in a cave with stable temperature, one could drastically reduce the need for both firewood and matches. Do these caves count as indoor locations when it comes to cabin fever?

4 hours ago, Ruruwawa said:

You can kill a wolf with the distress pistol...

I had the suspicion this is possible, I remember an old screenshot with a dead wolf with a flare burning in its mouth. Thanks for confirming it.

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Snowball 29 has now been rolling for over 13 days and is halfway through his allotment of 36 matches. This is a hammer snowball - no hacksaw.

The situation looks good, current condition 72%, enough fuel to sustain a continuous fire for 36 hours. The weather, however, is getting worse each day.

Any tips where to place snares at the nearby rabbit run?

s29_1.jpg

s29_2.jpg

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Drifter Man said:

Do these caves count as indoor locations when it comes to cabin fever?

No, they don't. And congratulations on making the summit!

Edited by mystifeid
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Posted (edited)

13 hours ago, Drifter Man said:

Any tips where to place snares at the nearby rabbit run?

I don't personally trap rabbits next to the lake because it's too likely a wolf or bear will wander through while I'm harvesting.  Instead, I trap at the rabbit run that it's midway between the hut ans the path to PV.  It's in a bowl with a mound and trees in the middle.  I set my traps in the middle of the trees and that gives me (and my fire) a windbreak from just about any direction.

Edited by Ruruwawa
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On ‎1‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 9:58 AM, Drifter Man said:
  • Container 1: 2 x pinnacle peaches, 2 x pork & beans. Thanks for that.
  • Container 2: 2 x leather shoes, 3 x running shoes. Useless junk.
  • Container 3: Antibiotics, painkillers, antiseptic, 1 x bandage. The painkillers will come in handy.
  • Container 4: 2 x herbal tea, 1 x tin of coffee. Both will save my life, right now.

I've never played TWM on Interloper, so please forgive me if this is not correct in Interloper playthroughs:

It sounds like you're only opening one half of the cargo containers. In my experience (three TWM Stalker runs) there are always two halves to each cargo container, each with its own door, and its own 'type' of loot. For example, in one half of the cargo container there would be multiple pairs of shoes, and the other half, there would be multiple cans of food.

Is this not true in Interloper? From my experience, the tail of the plane has 8 or 10 different openable containers, with each big grey container having two distinct locked doors.

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