Snowballs in Hell

[Drifter Man]

Snowball 42 / Day 21

I made good use of a few nice days, accumulating a reserve of sticks and stealing two deer on Crystal Lake. The geometry of the situation was favorable in both cases and I simply outran the wolf to the fishing hut. Always make sure you can approach the wolf from the frontal 180°! It will notice you from a greater distance and you will get more time to run. I managed to harvest 9 kg of meat plus hide from the first deer using exactly the method I described earlier; the second deer is still lying on the lake.

Rabbitskin mitts and deerskin pants are done and my temperature bonus jumped to +10°C / +7°C. Unfortunately, blizzards started coming every day during daylight, forcing me to spend a lot of time indoors. Cabin fever risk appeared this morning along with another blizzard, third in a row. I'm considering my options. I can stay at the doorstep and run a fire there - there is a small chance that wind will blow it out. The other option is to run for the fishing hut and start a safe fire in the stove - but it is questionable if I can find it in this kind of weather (it is still night as well), and I'm not sure if there aren't wolves out there. In any case, it will take a ton of sticks to keep me above zero!

[Timber Wolf]

57 minutes ago, Drifter Man said:

The other option is to run for the fishing hut and start a safe fire in the stove - but it is questionable if I can find it in this kind of weather (it is still night as well), and I'm not sure if there aren't wolves out there.

The safest way to get from the Mountaineer's Hut to the fishing hut in poor conditions is to leave the MH and go out to the right, following the stumps until you hit the large rock.  Then turn to your left and walk along the rock and then down the hill, keeping the rock on your right.  At the bottom of the hill is another large rock to walk alongside and doing so pretty much points you straight at the fishing hut.  When you reach the end of the rock and get to the edge of the lake, you are as close to the fishing hut as you can get while still knowing exactly where you are, and could retreat if necessary.

[Pillock]

54 minutes ago, Timber Wolf said:

The safest way to get from the Mountaineer's Hut to the fishing hut in poor conditions is to leave the MH and go out to the right, following the stumps until you hit the large rock.  Then turn to your left and walk along the rock and then down the hill, keeping the rock on your right.  At the bottom of the hill is another large rock to walk alongside and doing so pretty much points you straight at the fishing hut.  When you reach the end of the rock and get to the edge of the lake, you are as close to the fishing hut as you can get while still knowing exactly where you are, and could retreat if necessary.

I used to use burnt out brands to lay paths between important locations so I could find my way in blizzards and thick night fog. (I was living in the bunker near Pensive Pond, and had a series of brands laid out out on the ground that ran between the fishing hut, my rabbit snares in the wooded area and then the bunker entrance. I also had a few of them strategically placed between landmarks on the route between the bunker and Signal Hill. I would have been very nervous about attempting such journeys in bad weather without the markers, but with them I was always confident of making the destination relatively untroubled.) Can't do that now, but maybe you have something else lying about that you could use instead?

I know it doesn't help you during this particular blizzard, but for future ones it might be worth a bash when you have clear weather to set your markers.

[Ruruwawa]

6 hours ago, Pillock said:

Can't do that now, but maybe you have something else lying about that you could use instead?

Like rocks?  Or cattail heads / tinder if you're fire making 3.  

By the way, what is your fire making skill?  It's one of the skills I like to intentionally level up if I get the chance in interloper, for the increased burn duration.  Gotta stretch those sticks!

[Drifter Man]

Good ideas guys  I could mark the path with cattail heads. Still, I'm concerned about wolves. I know they normally aren't around in blizzards but when you are in an open world without loading screens, things work differently.

I guess I'll start my fire at the doorstep tonight. It's -39°C outdoors, so I'll feed in some 45 sticks to stay warm. This should give me over 6 hours of nominal fire duration and over 11 hours in actual time, unless the wind turns around and kills the fire (in my situation, it would be painful but it can't wipe me out; I have 126 sticks plus six coals). If the blizzard lasts five hours, I will still be able to draw about 15 torches from the fire at the end and turn them back into sticks - I got used to harvesting them in the morning when it's still dark but the character is not tired enough to sleep. A cost of 30 sticks is perfectly acceptable, I've been collecting 50 sticks a day over the past 5 days around the Mountaineer's Hut.

9 hours ago, Ruruwawa said:

By the way, what is your fire making skill?  It's one of the skills I like to intentionally level up if I get the chance in interloper, for the increased burn duration.  Gotta stretch those sticks!

Level 2. I've started 29 fires (with 23 matches/firestriker uses, I'm keeping count) and read the book. I should need 11 fires to level 3 and then 50 more fires to level 4, which gives 25% duration bonus. I think I can train to get that far, but I won't go to level 5. About 70-80 sticks per day would still be needed to keep permanent fire at the doorstep at level 5, and I don't think it is possible to find so many anyway. If nothing else kills me first (as it usually does), I'll die with my last match.

But I'm thinking about two-day fires - started one morning and maintained into the next morning, for about 32 hours. These would need "only" 57 sticks per day at level 4, and would stretch my match supply by a factor of two.

[Drifter Man]

Snowball 42 R.I.P (about 19 days 20 hours, didn't bother to check)

In the end I used the pass time mechanic (the same that allows the player to sleep to sleep without freezing to death when a blizzard comes during the night) to delay the need to start the fire. And as it turned out, the blizzard soon ended and the problem was solved without any fire at all. A beautiful day began and the conditions were ideal to harvest the second deer carcass that was left on the far side of the lake.

I don't like that place because you don't see the local wolf in the terrain, but I had the flare pistol and the fire and I was afraid of nothing. I started the fire and put in 30 sticks to keep me nice and warm, then harvested 8 kilos of venison from the frozen carcass. I dropped it straight away on the ground to remove the scent factor and started liquidating the excess fire by drawing torches. I kept looking out for the wolf and for the bear but neither appeared.

Then I thought: maybe if I cook some of the steaks, it will reduce the scent of the meat and it will be safer to cross the lake back to Mountaineer's Hut. Bad idea. So I cooked one piece of meat after another until the fire was almost out. In the end, I only had two raw pieces of meat and six cooked ones.

I was prepared to go as strong wind picked up and reduced the fire, which was already down to about 15 minutes anyway. Only now did the local wolf come in, attracted by the scent, and bounced off the dying fire. I had no time to lose, so I picked up all the meat and ran across the lake to reach safety. But the strong winds blew straight against me and I was out of breath long before I was even halfway home. I looked back, the wolf wasn't coming. I looked to the right, the other wolf was coming but still far away. I knew it would reach me before I can get home (or even to the fishing hut) and prepared the flare pistol, ready to drop bait when it comes close.

I didn't look to the left.

There's a third wolf that lives in the hills behind the Mountaineer's Hut and normally doesn't interfere with matters happening on the lake, but it was attracted by the smell coming from my backpack. When it barked at me, it was already close and I was disoriented - where is this coming from? I didn't see it until it attacked, some two seconds later.

As always, I was dead on the spot. For this reason, Snowballs never bother about bandages or antiseptic. No point in bandaging the dead.

So, again, how do we now carry meat around when meat turns you into a beacon for all wolves, near and far?

[Hotzn]

Intense, thanks for sharing. The answer could be that you leave the meat cooked on the lake and venture out to consume it there when you get hungry. 

[Ruruwawa]

So sorry about Snowball 42.  He seemed smarter than the average snowball!

1 hour ago, Drifter Man said:

So, again, how do we now carry meat around when meat turns you into a beacon for all wolves, near and far?

To add to Hotzn answer, I use blizzards to shift large meat stockpiles.  The wolves / bears do despawn in a blizzard if you're inside the mountaineer's hut when it starts (or for a while after).  Maybe the fishing hut too.

For your doorstep fire, there's a trick I learned from many outdoor hours in the Riken wheelhouse.

The wind shifts to blow at you, not your fire.  So I use the fire at max range in a spot where the fire is protected from the wind blowing at me.

 

[Miniwizard]

@Drifter Man Sorry to hear about No. 42. Loving all these journals and recollections. Plenty of lessons to be learned from the imparted wisdom of the various Snowball's experiences.

@Ruruwawa Oh, that is an awesome discovery and gameplay tip!

[Hotzn]

4 hours ago, Ruruwawa said:

To add to Hotzn answer, I use blizzards to shift large meat stockpiles.  The wolves / bears do despawn in a blizzard if you're inside the mountaineer's hut when it starts (or for a while after).  Maybe the fishing hut too.

Good one. I have to say that the scent mechanic per se is a good thing (proof is that old Hotzn has suggested it years ago). It needs work though. My idea from times long gone was that

1. scent has to travel with the air,

2. you have to see which way the air is moving (when things are fairly calm it would be best to see your breath moving away from you while dispersing; otherwise snowflakes travelling on a breeze could be a good indicator),

3. only animals downwind from you can smell the scent you are giving off.

Other changes would be:

4. Meat lying around in the open would soon attract predators (from downwind) and be eaten.

5. Animal carcasses would spawn from time to time in random places. Not like on the ice but rather in less accessible places. A bit hidden so to say. In clear weather, the player could locate them by looking for circling crows.

6. After half a day or so, a pack of wolves would gather at these randomly spawned carcasses and devour them. Or a bear. A Latecomer would have to confront these to get a share. Would make for interesting confrontations.

[Drifter Man]

11 hours ago, Ruruwawa said:

To add to Hotzn answer, I use blizzards to shift large meat stockpiles.  The wolves / bears do despawn in a blizzard if you're inside the mountaineer's hut when it starts (or for a while after).  Maybe the fishing hut too.

Maybe a reason to start liking blizzards! I will have to learn to find my way around Crystal Lake in poor visibility, then. Thanks for the idea!

I've been thinking that many others must now be struggling with the issues of moving meat from place to place now. Using blizzards is a bit counter-intuitive, but if it means survival, Snowball will do it.

11 hours ago, Ruruwawa said:

For your doorstep fire, there's a trick I learned from many outdoor hours in the Riken wheelhouse.

I guess I will just try to put the fire as much in the corner as possible. I remember clearly one occasion when wind killed it there, though.

10 hours ago, Miniwizard said:

@Drifter Man Sorry to hear about No. 42. Loving all these journals and recollections. Plenty of lessons to be learned from the imparted wisdom of the various Snowball's experiences.

Thanks! The lessons are not just Snowball experiences, they're also the ideas and advice of other survivors around here. Snowball is a test bed of survival tactics in extreme conditions

6 hours ago, Hotzn said:

I have to say that the scent mechanic per se is a good thing (proof is that old Hotzn has suggested it years ago)

[Drifter Man]

Snowball 43 / Day 3

Interloper, no badges, play the guy... and delete seven sandboxes that land me in the wrong map...

No. 43 is an interesting Snowball. He found four boxes of matches on Day 1: apart from the two regular spawns in the Mountaineer's Hut and in the 3-Way cave, there was another on the body in the Cave of Engines and one more in the hatch in the Mountaineer's Hut. No Snowball in history had found so many matches outside the Tail Section.

He also found a hammer in the ice fishing hut, which meant no hacksaw on Day 1. But unlike the earlier hammer Snowballs, who were either aborted at this point or tried to survive without leaving the base, this one decided to conquer the Summit, without coffee, tea and spare cloth. He skipped Phase 1, which made little sense without the hacksaw, and went straight for Phase 2. Mag lens was found in the cave at the Secluded Shelf, but this time, there was no deer carcass on the plateau below the Summit. This can make things more difficult. Anyway, using two pieces of cloth found at the base, and tearing apart some of the scarce clothes he wore (sports socks, hoodie, thermal underwear), he built a snow shelter under the Summit. Completely exhausted from climbing, he went to a 10-hour sleep in the shelter. Now his condition is just 66%, but he is also three days ahead of Snowball 42, who enjoyed a comparatively more comfortable ride. Weather permitting, Summit will fall today.

[Drifter Man]

Anyway, I had a strange dream tonight (IRL). I dreamed that I found a can opener in the Tail Section. I'm taking a break from the game now

[Ruruwawa]

1 hour ago, Drifter Man said:

I guess I will just try to put the fire as much in the corner as possible. I remember clearly one occasion when wind killed it there, though.

Yep -- t's not perfect because sometimes the wind direction really is random.   But that tactic greatly reduced how often my fire went out... like 10x fire duration between blowouts compared to sitting right next to the fire (I lived there for 130 days on Interloper so a few hundred game hours of testing both ways).  YMMV... the Riken wheelhouse is one of the best sheltered outdoor locations that's not a fishing hut.

[Drifter Man]

130 days... even if you had tools, bows, furs etc., it's an impressive record!

I'm not sure I'm getting it. Are you saying that wind is programmed to eventually turn at you, and so by standing away from the fire, "attracting" the wind, you protect the fire itself? That's strange, I would guess that wind direction is completely random and the safety of the fire depends only on the position of the fire - not on where I stand.

[Ruruwawa]

6 hours ago, Drifter Man said:

1I'm not sure I'm getting it. Are you saying that wind is programmed to eventually turn at you, and so by standing away from the fire, "attracting" the wind, you protect the fire itself? That's strange, I would guess that wind direction is completely random and the safety of the fire depends only on the position of the fire - not on where I stand.

That's what I'm saying.  It's a game, not a reality simulator, and the wind blowing at you to force you out of your sheltered spot is one of the challenges built into the game.

[Hotzn]

39 minutes ago, Ruruwawa said:

That's what I'm saying.  It's a game, not a reality simulator, and the wind blowing at you to force you out of your sheltered spot is one of the challenges built into the game.

+1 for arcane knowledge

[Timber Wolf]

7 hours ago, Drifter Man said:

Are you saying that wind is programmed to eventually turn at you

I have also observed this time and again. 

[JAFO]

I'm loving this thread.. can't believe I took so long to get around to reading it. Kudos to @Drifter Man and the other bold explorers pushing the envelope on TWM!

On 6/24/2017 at 8:03 PM, Drifter Man said:

First I repaired my hacksaw with one of the two pieces of scrap metal I had - so I can leave the toolbox behind. I scrapped the running shoes. I weighed all items carefully. In the end, I left behind ... the quality tools.

From this, I gather that you're not aware that you can harvest tools (quality or simple), for 3 scrap metal. That's a lot of fishhooks....

[JAFO]

On 6/26/2017 at 7:18 PM, Drifter Man said:

Maybe the wolf heard the sound of the torch falling onto the ice and reacted to it... I read somewhere that they now are aware of all kinds of sounds.

Could well be.. I've seen it demonstrated on youtube that they now react to the sound of car doors being closed.

[JAFO]

On 7/4/2017 at 9:54 PM, Drifter Man said:

So, again, how do we now carry meat around when meat turns you into a beacon for all wolves, near and far?

On 7/4/2017 at 10:09 PM, Hotzn said:

The answer could be that you leave the meat cooked on the lake and venture out to consume it there when you get hungry. 

On 7/4/2017 at 11:59 PM, Ruruwawa said:

To add to Hotzn answer, I use blizzards to shift large meat stockpiles.  The wolves / bears do despawn in a blizzard if you're inside the mountaineer's hut when it starts (or for a while after).  Maybe the fishing hut too.

To which I would add, I've noticed that 6kg of cooked venison will light up one scent bar. As @Drifter Man has mentioned earlier, even though it doesn't light up a scent bar, 5kg of cooked venison still gets a wolf's attention pretty well. So it seems logical to assume a linear progression of "attractiveness" based on the amount of cooked meat you're carrying. In which case, an acceptable threshold to carry might be 2kg of cooked meat at a time. Maybe 3kg if you're feeling adventurous, or don't have far to go. I've seen it mentioned a few times in the past year or so, that being upwind of a wolf will definitely increase their detection range too, so wind direction is also worth taking into account.

 

 

[JAFO]

On 7/5/2017 at 3:34 PM, Drifter Man said:

Are you saying that wind is programmed to eventually turn at you, and so by standing away from the fire, "attracting" the wind, you protect the fire itself? That's strange, I would guess that wind direction is completely random and the safety of the fire depends only on the position of the fire - not on where I stand.

23 hours ago, Ruruwawa said:

That's what I'm saying.  It's a game, not a reality simulator, and the wind blowing at you to force you out of your sheltered spot is one of the challenges built into the game.

23 hours ago, Hotzn said:

+1 for arcane knowledge

22 hours ago, Timber Wolf said:

I have also observed this time and again. 

 

You guys do realise this also explains one of the other phenomena that's been observed and commented on, time and time again, on forums and youtube, that any time the situation is dire and you're desperate to get to shelter, the wind always seems to blow right in your face, slowing you down to a crawl?

If @Ruruwawa's experimenting on the Riken is anything to go by, this too isn't random chance at work.. the game really is out to get you sometimes.

[Timber Wolf]

6 minutes ago, JAFO said:

If @Ruruwawa's experimenting on the Riken is anything to go by, this too isn't random chance at work.. the game really is out to get you sometimes.

The wind is definitely working against you - intentionally.  And it does so with enough consistency, that I now find myself grateful any time it isn't actually blowing in my face.  In fact, I factor the wind into most of my planning, expecting it to slow me down.

I can't remember in which version of the game this became a thing, but I do remember being extremely ticked off by it at first.  I even actually quit playing the game a few times because of it.  And I almost wrote a big, long post about how I hated the wind!

I have since come to actually like what a pain in the butt the wind can be.  It sometimes forces me to alter my plans and routes, and I like that kind of thing.  And if I have a wolf on my tail and am stuck fighting a head wind, I get that sense of helplessness that I don't feel very often anymore (unless playing Interloper).

[nicko]

52 minutes ago, Timber Wolf said:

The wind is definitely working against you - intentionally.  And it does so with enough consistency, that I now find myself grateful any time it isn't actually blowing in my face.  In fact, I factor the wind into most of my planning, expecting it to slow me down.

I can't remember in which version of the game this became a thing, but I do remember being extremely ticked off by it at first.  I even actually quit playing the game a few times because of it.  And I almost wrote a big, long post about how I hated the wind!

I have since come to actually like what a pain in the butt the wind can be.  It sometimes forces me to alter my plans and routes, and I like that kind of thing.  And if I have a wolf on my tail and am stuck fighting a head wind, I get that sense of helplessness that I don't feel very often anymore (unless playing Interloper).

Yeah the wind plays so much of a factor I have found, as in wow it just turned direction plan B, time to go to another location. Sometimes I think wow the games knows i am starting to panic, sprint run faster. and the weather goes bad. probably us just being to paranoid lol. great game loving it.

[Troxism]

Do not think the fire duration bonus for being outdoors is based on location, it seems to have to do with temperature change around the fire (which basically means time) combined with fire bonus of the fire itself up to some kind of cap, but I have never done a detailed analysis to figure out exactly what is going on. Sometimes you get a huge bonus in a fishing hut, sometimes you get almost nothing. Sometimes I've even gotten the bonus in the Mountaineer's Hut fireplace, but have been unable to consistently replicate this. Idk, it's probably the least known mechanic in this game overall (and most people not knowing about it is why they tend to struggle with cabin fever; if you know about it you realise you should make every fire outdoors anyways which pretty much solves Cabin Fever before it starts in most cases). Most people just never pay attention to fire duration and details of that sort.

And yeah, wind is pretty cheap sometimes. Was even worse when there was the bug that made it so any time the wind changed direction it 'swept' all the angles between it's old position and the new one, blowing out any fire you had in that 'arc' even if your fire was sheltered from the original and final position. Was pretty annoying when you played outdoors only (basically meant you could only make fires in caves/huts/outdoor stoves/barrels), but I think they have since fixed that bug at least.