Snowballs in Hell


Drifter Man

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3 hours ago, Ruruwawa said:

Option B (the one I favor) is to sleep for smaller stretches to conserve fuel (which costs good weather + condition to gather).

If it's warm (Feels Like over 0C) and I have high condition, I might try a couple hours at a time with no fire at all.  My habit (from something like 800 nights spent in caves and the hut on easier difficulties) is to sleep without a fire for no longer than my current condition / 25.  Then I sleep in progressively shorter stretches untilI hit Freezing.  Then I get up and make a fire to make water, fish or cook.  This gives me the most utility from my precious fuel.

Certainly a longer sleep will heal you for more, but it's a huge gamble to sleep for more hours than you have condition to lose to freezing.  When I really must heal asap I go for a tea (if available) + 4 hour fire + 4 hour sleep.

This doesn't work well for me. The early sleep only gives 1-2% condition per hour. Only in the later hours of sleep (maybe after 4-5 hours) it starts to give 4% per hour. I absolutely need to get as much of this late sleep as possible. For example, Stage 1 cost Snowball 33 61% condition and Snowball 34 51% condition. During the first part of the trip to the summit, Snowball 33 lost 54% condition. You need to sleep long hours - 10 hours in a row, if possible - to recover from that. Otherwise you can't do anything in TWM.

For this reason my normal routine in TWM is to sleep through the day (when it is warm enough to sleep safely) and work through the night (when you need fire anyway, and this way you don't have to make more fire than you really need).

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11 minutes ago, Drifter Man said:

An elaborate method! I prefer the flare pistol now, though, for its spectacular effects. After all that beating I received from wolves, setting one ablaze and watching it run around is satisfying beyond description. Therapeutic. :D

I once set the entire pack in the Coastal Village in CH on fire, it was weirdly satisfying.  :D Then I quit and reloaded the game, because, well those things can be hard to find. 

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Snowball 34 reporting from a snow shelter just below the summit. I just survived a blizzard while sleeping in the shelter for ca 8 hours, proving that sleeping outside for long stretches is safe - as long as you have spare warmth when you go to sleep and the blizzard isn't already ongoing.

I will spare you the details of the procedure, which you already know. Just a few differences compared to Snowball 33:

  • I already deployed the rope and the second Engine during Stage 1, using the rope from Mountaineer's Hut. This will save me one rope hauled down from the summit.
  • A blizzard in the early morning delayed my departure until daybreak, but I managed to leave at 98% condition.
  • There only was herbal tea, but no coffee, in the container at the Wing. Then I ran into strong headwinds on my way to the summit. They wore me down, in addition to the heat loss due to the wind. As a result, I had trouble managing my fatigue and barely made the second rope to Secluded Shelf. As correctly pointed out by @Ruruwawa, condition loss from exhaustion is slow, about 1% per hour. I waited until dusk in the cave for a blizzard to end and only lost a few %.
  • I did not open the bottom compartments of the containers at the Wing and at Deer Clearing, which I know to only contain food. While food is important, those few cans inside simply aren't worth 5% of my hacksaw.
  • Because the two blizzards ruined my timetable, I waited below the summit for one more day, and used the time to skin the deer carcass there. This will give me a head start for Stage 3, unless I die.

I'm ready for the summit at nice 86% condition.

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Snowball 34 / Day 12

Well into Stage 3, I now have 2+2 deer hides (cured+curing), 2+1 rabbit pelts, 2+5 guts. I am well supplied in all respects except matches (30 remaining). I fired one flare to steal a deer on the lake - missed the wolf but at least got the deer. Unfortunately, I was forced to spend three flares defending myself during a brief expedition to the Wing, including once against a bear. These three flares bought me one of the deer hides, one rabbit pelt, three guts and some meat. I'm decided to keep the remaining 4 for self-defense. One deer hide and two rabbit pelts come from the container at the summit. I left a wolf pelt on the top - it's just dead weight to me.

s34_1.jpg

Clothes are holding nicely at +10°C bonus, but I now have cabin fever risk. Cabin fever will cost me matches and fuel - I will burn fire at night and stay warm glued to the outside wall. I must hold out until I have at least a few snares. I intend to put all those guts into snares, crafted clothes must wait. Once I build my shelter, I will be locked to it - leaving for more than a day or day and half would not be acceptable, because it would start asking for cloth for repairs.

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Excellent. I feel like Professor Xavier - confined to my office desk day and night, my thoughts are with the intrepid Drifter Man who fulfills my will in the field...

You last remark is interesting - does the snow shelter fall into disrepair faster if you do not continuously use it? I noticed in my current Interloper run that the snow shelter I erected in DP had lost condition pretty fast when I returned to it after something like 6 days.

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On 1/15/2017 at 1:52 PM, Drifter Man said:

@Timber Wolf could you please post here (or elsewhere) how you go about setting up your life, and how long you can survive?

I can't make it long at all yet.  I'm afraid I have been taking my cues from you thus far. :)

When you began to show that this might actually be a possibility, I started to explore the idea.  It seems to me that the length of time you can survive will be directly related to how good your loot spawns are.  I think what we are looking for here is a formula that accounts for the best loot, best routes, best shelters, best daily routines, etc.  Therefore, we need to identify all of the constants and all of the variables.  So, part of the formula is determining which of the 3 key tools (hacksaw, magnifying glass, hammer) is ultimately the most useful.  Part of the formula is determining when it is best to go up to the summit and using which route.  Another part of the formula is how many matches can possibly be found in a single run.  And another is finding the best place(s) to setup a snow shelter (I've decided not to let this cat out of the bag just yet).

All of these questions need to be answered before we can see the full extent of the formula.  Then when all the variables and constants have been determined, we can put together a strategy ordered by and based on all of the information.

Other examples of variables:



Did you know on rare occasions you can find matches on the corpse at the dead end of Echo Ravine?  Did you know you can sometimes find new Combat Boots, a flare, antibiotics, 2 cedar and 1 fir in the Forest Cave and other times find only the 2 cedar?  Did you know there is more than one place to get an extra warmth bonus with a snow shelter?

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~ I can't figure out how to put multiple spoilers in a post - I keep ending up with spoilers inside of spoilers.~

Continued....

And perhaps most important of all:


A new revelation today - did you know you can sometimes find more than one of the 3 key tools?!  I just started a run and found the hammer in the fishing hut and the magnifying glass laying on the ground next to the corpse by the Secluded Shelf cave entrance.  What if the hacksaw and the magnifying glass could be found in the same run?  You said you found the toolbox in the Mountaineer's Hut one time - did you still find one of the other 3 key tools?

With so few resources to be found, there is going to be an optimal way to do everything and an optimal group of starting loot.  Think of how many more days you can survive if you have both the hacksaw and magny?  If you start a run and don't get both, would it even be worth continuing on knowing what a huge difference it makes?

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Continued....

The loot can vary greatly in any one spot, but I don't think it is interconnected.  Which is to say, you can probably get the best possible loot in one place and also the best possible in another place.  On the other hand, I believe the 3 key tools (along with the bedroll) are treated differently than all of the rest of the loot (in Interloper only).  I think the number of each and the total number across all maps is determined immediately upon starting a game and it inter-related.

has been sending Snowballs out to last as long as they can, in an effort to gain knowledge.  I have started to send out countless no-names, with the expressed purpose of gathering information during their very short-lived existences.  I don't see how a long term strategy can be devised until more information is obtained.  Right now, my main mission involves the new revelation in the spoiler above.

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On 1/16/2017 at 1:48 PM, Drifter Man said:

I immediately go to the rope attachment point above the second Engine - a shortcut without which I would stand no chance to reach home alive.

Why do you take that route down?

There is no need to take the long way home.  You can just go right down the side of the mountain toward the Mountaineer's Hut!  It only takes a couple of hours. B|

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31 minutes ago, Hotzn said:

Excellent. I feel like Professor Xavier - confined to my office desk day and night, my thoughts are with the intrepid Drifter Man who fulfills my will in the field...

You last remark is interesting - does the snow shelter fall into disrepair faster if you do not continuously use it? I noticed in my current Interloper run that the snow shelter I erected in DP had lost condition pretty fast when I returned to it after something like 6 days.

It seems to me that the rate at which the shelter falls apart is about 10% per day, whether it is used or not. Above certain condition (I think 80%) all you need is 1-2 sticks, but then you begin to need cloth.

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@Timber Wolf I think it's great to have a fresh, independent look at it. So far I've been following just one formula:

  • Get hacksaw (no hacksaw - no chance)
  • Get to the nearby containers to get clothes
  • Reach the summit
  • Accumulate enough material to be able to snare enough rabbits
  • Install shelter at a suitable place and then ...?
34 minutes ago, Timber Wolf said:

So, part of the formula is determining which of the 3 key tools (hacksaw, magnifying glass, hammer) is ultimately the most useful.

More precisely, which one is the most useful to have from the start in the Mountaineer's Hut. My opinion is the hacksaw, because without it, reaching the summit is only possible theoretically - not sure if practically - and you still wouldn't be able to access the containers there. You would have to sacrifice your only clothes and never get them back. Mag glass might beat it, although I'm not sure one could survive without clothes that would be sacrificed to build the shelter. Finally, I don't see any significant advantage in having the hammer.

39 minutes ago, Timber Wolf said:

Part of the formula is determining when it is best to go up to the summit and using which route.

I don't think there are fewer than three ropes whichever route you take. Which one would you choose?

41 minutes ago, Timber Wolf said:

Another part of the formula is how many matches can possibly be found in a single run.

There are four guaranteed spawns (two at the summit) with 12 matches each. There seems to be a "floating" box that can be anywhere - on a corpse, in a cave, in the Mountaineer's Hut, anywhere. 60 is the maximum I could ever find - that was Snowball 33.

I'm aware of the variability of spawns, and this is why I concluded that it is desirable to check all potential loot locations during the game. The cave at Eric's Falls shows the same variability you described.

As for the cat you're keeping in the bag, I'm itching to know :) In fact, I plan to ask you soon unless I find out myself. I will need to settle on the shelter location soon.

I think the magnifying glass is another "floating" item that can spawn next to a corpse - I once found one inside the cave you mentioned. I've never found hacksaw elsewhere than in the Hut, but I never wandered much without hacksaw. And finally, the hammer is guaranteed to spawn at the summit, at least I found it there three times out of 3.

I don't remember about the toolbox but I think there still was another tool but not the hacksaw, because I was wondering what use this toolbox is supposed to be to me.

I'm not convinced I can make it work out of the shelter without still spending lots of matches. The magnifying glass would change the game for me now.

I can assure you, my early Snowballs were very short-lived as well.

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Without spoiling too much, there's another VERY useful item at the summit that you've never reported, @Drifter Man.  Next time you're up there, be sure to look around very carefully inside the plane.  You might even whoop with joy when you find it. :D

And... I found one of the warmish spots for a snow shelter.   My spot has rabbits close by - very tempting to live there!

Except I don't really enjoy Interloper -- not enough time to stop and smell the rose hips for my taste.  I did a run to the summit to try it, starting with the mag lens in the hut.  (Loads of wind and 2 blizzards, like your run, ugh.)  There was a hacksaw at the summit, sitting atop a wooden crate in an impossible-to-miss spot (yay!).  Unfortunately no hacksaw on the way up meant no coffee or spare clothing, so I had to tear up my starter clothes to make a snow shelter to rest before the final rope.  After looting the summit had no pants (or longjohns) at all!  Brrrrr......!  And omg my legs are white.

 

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3 minutes ago, Ruruwawa said:

I did a run to the summit to try it, starting with the mag lens in the hut.  There was a hacksaw at the summit, sitting atop a wooden crate in an impossible-to-miss spot (yay!).

Just as I suspected!  And hoped!  So, maybe don't go to the hut first and instead go straight for the summit?

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7 minutes ago, Timber Wolf said:

Just as I suspected!  And hoped!  So, maybe don't go to the hut first and instead go straight for the summit?

maybe.  I actually tried going straight to the summit first and there was no hacksaw at all up there.  No idea what was in the hut that time because I just rerolled when I didn't find the hacksaw.

Mag lens + hacksaw is a great combo.  I think I got the hammer in the fishing hut too that time.  (nope I'm wrong)  

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1 minute ago, Ruruwawa said:

Mag lens + hacksaw is a great combo.  I think I got the hammer in the fishing hut too that time.

That provides for a lot more options.

 

1 minute ago, Ruruwawa said:

The hacksaw will wear out pretty soon due to opening the cargo containers

As @Drifter Man did with one of the Snowballs, I think some containers aren't worth the condition loss - like the food one by the Wing. 

I am also wondering if a toolbox isn't possible on occassion.  The lantern doesn't always show up by the Wing, maybe the toolbox takes its place some of the times.  If so, every piece of scrap metal would mean that many more frozen carcasses that could be harvested, along with all the other uses.

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This starts to look like a full-fledged competition who'll be the first to colonize TWM :) It won't be me, though. My time's running out, I'll have to stop playing soon.

@Ruruwawa some people hinted at a certain piece of firestarting equipment found at the wreck :) I've never found it, though. Will look again. I seem to be missing a lot of things. A lantern at the Wing? Which wing? Where? And congratulations on making it to the summit without hacksaw!

So, does the game place two or more key items around the map? Start with a lens, find the hacksaw at the top? Maybe I always find hammer at the summit because I start with hacksaw in the Hut.

 

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2 hours ago, Hotzn said:

I feel like Professor Xavier - confined to my office desk day and night, my thoughts are with the intrepid Drifter Man who fulfills my will in the field...

And I feel like Hotzn now, standing in the Cave of Engines, looking east, utterly bold, his ass freezing in his pants.

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1 minute ago, Drifter Man said:

So, does the game place two or more key items around the map? Start with a lens, find the hacksaw at the top? Maybe I always find hammer at the summit because I start with hacksaw in the Hut.

I think it works like this some of the time, if not all the time.

 

5 minutes ago, Drifter Man said:

A lantern at the Wing? Which wing?

The one not far from the lake.  On the ground right next to the cargo container.  I've found it there when the hammer is in the fishing hut - I get that start a lot.

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16 minutes ago, Drifter Man said:

This starts to look like a full-fledged competition who'll be the first to colonize TWM :) 

It won't be me either... I've gone back to Stalker.  I like being able to stay outside for a bit without watching my condition count down like a SpaceX launch. :P

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19 minutes ago, Drifter Man said:

some people hinted at a certain piece of firestarting equipment found at the wreck

I've noticed three possible spawn locations for this item : one in DP, one in ML and one in the tail section. However, I have only ever found one per game.

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18 minutes ago, Drifter Man said:

This starts to look like a full-fledged competition who'll be the first to colonize TWM

I'm with @Ruruwawa.  Interloper is exhausting.  You were kind of the catalyst. :)

I certainly won't be giving up on the idea, though.  There are a lot of new possibilities arising and I love playing on the mountain! 

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