Save without sleeping

[Jedra]

I find the linking of Saving the game (important for players) and sleeping (important for characters) to be really, really, really, really annoying. Especially given the importance of balancing when you rest, managing time etc the fact that two inherently unrelated aspects are linked is incredibly frustrating. I am a relatively casual gamer these days in terms of time, but fairly serious in terms of effort and thought I put into what I play. Linking these two things makes it impossible to be both.

Why is this such an issue? I have a job and a girlfriend. Despite stereotypes, I'm sure I'm not alone in this amongst gamers. I would prefer to be able to come home after work, play an hour or two, and then stop when I feel like it so I can spend time with her. I'd rather not say "Sorry honey one second... I just need to reach that bed that's 1 km away and then repair a few more things until it's an appropriate time to sleep then I can stop ignoring you" or suddenly pitching my sleeping bag in the middle of a snowstorm with 40mph winds whilst I'm being attacked by a wolf on top of a frozen lake.

I say the following not as a threat but simply as a statement: I will probably not play this game if saving remains linked to sleeping. I got bored of hunting for a save point in the 90s when it was still cool, and these days I simply refuse to play games that don't allow me to manage the time I play them properly. I suspect I am not alone in this, and you will probably lose players over this link.

Now don't get me wrong: I think it is entirely correct and adds to the game that you can't be a save monkey and spammed a quicksave every 2 minutes. But link the save to quitting the game, not to sleeping please. I fail to see what linking it to sleeping adds to the game over and above a save-on-quit model.

[andruin]

I agree. This is the biggest problem I have with the game.

Andruin

[robdoar]

I respectfully disagree. The challenge in the game is about making decisions, and saves can be abused to exploit that.

I have 2 kids, activities, obligations, "Honey come do this" (ESC works in that case ) so I really do understand where you're coming from, there's been times where I've lost an hour or 2 of gameplay.

but one of the things I like the most about this game is that you really need to evaluate if you're able to make it to the next location or not, and save slots remove that challenge.

[Jedra]

To be honest... you can abuse that anyway by just quitting the game and reloading from your last sleep if things get hairy.

I'm not saying "Let me save any time i want so I can save monkey and reload all the time". I'm saying simply tie saving to quitting, instead of sleeping. That evaluation wouldn't go away. If anything, it would be harder.

[andruin]

I respectfully disagree. The challenge in the game is about making decisions, and saves can be abused to exploit that.

And I will dis-disagree (also respectfully.) :-) Unless we're playing in a competitive or cooperative environment (e-sport, MMO, etc.), I think it should be up the player how they play. I can bookmark a book wherever I want, stop/pause a movie whenever I want, why not games? But then, I'm not going to abuse it. If I die, that's okay and I restart. But if I wanted to abuse it, so what? Who is it hurting except for me?

Andruin

[DailyDoober]

If you're not in a location with a bed, why not just pull out the old bedroll and do a quick hour sleep to save?

[andruin]

That would be okay except for the losses involved - calories, temperature, hydration, item condition. Death by wandering wolf. :-)

The "longest survival time" list is already corrupted by players reloading (back to their previous sleep) when things go badly for them. That's going to happen in any game that has a save system controlled by the players. It's going to happen even in this system if it had auto-saves. The player could save at a bed, back up the save, die by wolf fangs (auto-save), restore the bed save, load and continue. It's a losing battle for the devs if they're trying to prevent all cheating. It's time they could be spending sharpening wolf teeth.

The devs did have some good points in another thread about the amount of data that needs to be saved and conditions under which saves can be made (while falling was an example given.)

I think many of the conditions can be avoided by using the bedroll as a save point but having no time pass. I.e., add a "Save" button to the bedroll so the player could either save or sleep. (Maybe save, sleep, or pick up?) But that doesn't address the amount of data that would need to be saved. I don't have an answer for that one.

Andruin

[Modi]

IMO saving as is works great. adding a quicksave sort of option would lessen the emotional impact of the game, and say what you will, but when you overcome a challenge in the game there IS an impact, removing that by adding a safety net, even knowing the safety net exists can kill that feeling. But as for the option of tying saves to quitting, as long as it worked the same as the sleep save, where there are no save slots just load back in from the save point, I think that would work fine.

[ubiquityxx]

The less thinking about save files the more time can be focused on surviving. It drives home the point of the simulation. What would you do? How far will you go to survive? The psychological tension of finite decision making enhances the experience. That's a great thing! A story driven game mode could handle "saves" differently, but I don't believe they are required.

I would recommend handling "saves" in the background. Don't even tell the user the game is saved. The game always knows the players state but their decisions are final. You can press ESC to pause the simulation. You can quit (to the menu or out of the app) and come back and continue playing whenever you want. But any concept of "save" or "load" are gone ... you can "resume".

If there is no current simulation hide "resume" option. My 2c.

[Jedra]

Yeah, Ubi, that's exactly it.

The simple fact is that sometimes you need to sleep, and sometimes you need to save. The reasons why you want to do either are completely independent.

For instances I wanted to play another 20 minutes yesterday, but my character was exhausted. So I slept. No point in doing anything after that as It wouldn't save or I'd have to sleep randomly just after waking up.

I keep having this issue almost every time I play and - frankly - it sucks the fun out of the game without making it more immersive and/or harder.

PS - Definitely I am not pushing for unlimited save slots or spamming quick save. I'm pushing for whenever you quit and come back, you are exactly where you left off. As Andruin points out, this is LESS gamey in the sense that you can't just quit when you get stuck in a snow storm or when a wolf has knocked you down to 1% health and wake up in your bed like "it was all a dream."

[AngelOfAttack]

Just save on quit would be good for both who need save and prevent abuse

[gwishades]

havent they now updated it so it saves when you enter the interior of a building in the new v .137?

[Trebron114]

Yes, they did!