Getting tired after sprinting

[exeexe]

I dont like the mechanic that you are getting tired from sprinting. I think instead it should cost extra calories and water. I played a lot of soccer in my life and i know i dont get tired from sprinting. It also breaks the immersion a little. If you really want actions that gets you tired then it should be something like reading a book or a newspaper. Like imagine you are down to 20% condition and you want to heal up but are only 50% tired. Now you can read a newspaper get tired then sleep for 10 hours and heal up.

[ElvisHunter]

14 hours ago, exeexe said:

like reading a book or a newspaper.

Subjective nonsense: I read a lot of books in my life and i know i don't get tired from reading.

RL: Physical exertion makes you tired man, unless you live on the moon. 

But, i would also appreciate an indoor activity in game that also quickly drains the rest bar. 

[exeexe]

5 hours ago, ElvisHunter said:

Subjective nonsense: I read a lot of books in my life and i know i don't get tired from reading.

RL: Physical exertion makes you tired man, unless you live on the moon.

Reading books makes people fall asleep. Just look here and there are tons of results
http://bfy.tw/8QNB

Physical exertion might make you wanna sit down or something but its not something thats gonna make you fall asleep.

[Dirmagnos]

Every action makes people a bit tired. Also its not about physical exertion, mental, like reading books can have similar effect. It all depends on how used person is to this or that activity. Some guy can play soccer for 10 hours a day and go party afterwards, because his organism is adapted to it, both in terms of strain and energy usage. But he may have serious issues when reading books, because hes not used to it, couple of hours and hes toast. Reverse is also applicable.

In general, in tLD, player should be getting used to outdoor activities and wandering around in snow, starting reducing tiredness drain, bit by bit, after about 2 weeks in.

[mystifeid]

5 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

after about 2 weeks in.

Sounds like the vigor of youth. Once upon a time I could whip myself into shape in a few weeks but these days it takes about six months to get off the couch and pretty soon it'll be impossible. Then again I can not sleep for two nights in a row now - doesn't matter what I'm doing - and I couldn't do that when I was young.

[Dirmagnos]

32 minutes ago, mystifeid said:

Sounds like the vigor of youth. Once upon a time I could whip myself into shape in a few weeks but these days it takes about six months to get off the couch and pretty soon it'll be impossible. Then again I can not sleep for two nights in a row now - doesn't matter what I'm doing - and I couldn't do that when I was young.

Well, where i will there is a weapon. Thing about getting yourself is shape in modern developed society is largely question of willpower rather than ability or health. we are simply lazy and there is no direct motivation to work out. what4, when you can just sit on your couch and watch telly. You kinda have 2 get in shape, but you kinda 2 lazy to do it, maybe tomorrow.

But if were talking about tLD survival situation, then practically all the obstacles that modern survival creates are gone. You have to move around, you have to fight, you have to scavenge. And from personal experience, once basic instincts kick in and comforts or modern world are suddenly gone, all the things that make people soft are no longer a problem.

[mystifeid]

And how old are you again?

Getting off the couch is an expression used to signify getting into shape and I haven't owned a TV for more than twenty years now.

In my twenties I had a habit of training 2-4 hours a day so I could go rock-climbing on the weekends. If I stopped for a while (eg for injury) it would take about three weeks before I was climbing at my limit again.

In my thirties I was full time - ie every day that wasn't raining - hang glider pilot. If I stopped for a while (eg for injury) it would take about six weeks to get full flying fitness back.

In my forties, to stay fit I worked six months of every year in one of the hardest working construction crews I've ever seen. At the start of each stint it would take ten to twelve weeks before I could out-perform the twenty year olds.

Now I still have a part time menial job that requires quite a reasonable level of physical exertion.

Because I know from experience that when I stop now (eg from chronic injury) it takes six months.

And it really hurts.

But hey, I've always been an endorphin addict so that's a good thing!

[Dirmagnos]

Again ? I never sad my age to begin with. And im turning 36 today.

My guess we are kinda discussing different things, since "being in shape" is subjective. Those pumped guys with their sixpacks would not survive in conditions that person who has beer belly, but lived in those conditions for a long time, would have no problem with.

Also your examples are incorrect, since youre proving actually my point. Firstly, youre talking about recovery from injuries and im guessing were not talking sprains. And second, youre talking about flying and rock climbing(those are rather specific activities that are not really "native" to human physique), that has nothing to do with day to day activities that tLD survivor faces. Its not 2-4 hours a day or for 6 months out of year. Its every day, day after day, same thing, nonstop, with no pauses or pit stops. Plus, protagonist is not engaged in "civilized" activities, nor he is lured by crap like fast food. His mind is rather unilateral at this point. And pretty much everyone knows that there is a huge difference between doing something while being bored to death and being fully invested into something.

[mystifeid]

Lol. It doesn't really matter to me because I know that twenty to twenty-five years from now, you will find out the truth of the matter first hand.

[cekivi]

Whereas I'll enjoy my 20s while they last

Congrats on 1000+ posts @Dirmagnos

[Boston123]

Sounds like someone hasn't sprinted, or even hustled, wearing multiple layers of heavy clothing, carrying heavy gear on your back, across rough terrain, into the wind. 

Sprinting tires you out. It isn't running back and forth on a soccer field.

[Sapped]

@exeexe I get where you are coming from.  When I was in high school and university, I could run near full tilt on the soccer pitch for ages (I realize you are older than that, but I am illustrating a time when I was in decent shape ).  Even at 145 lbs, I could strap nearly 100 lbs of gear on myself and do a light jog along several kms of up and down portages.  Add snow however, and a slower pace became the name of the game.  While out of necessity, the graphics in the game depict the snow as only a few inches deep, I can speak from experience living in similar conditions, knee deep snow would more than likely be the case.  Throw on a bit of gear and running through those kinds of conditions would be exhausting.  I don't know if maybe a third speed option - light jog - might fill the realism gap between trudging and full out sprint.  Could be a benefit for people who travel light - the option (up to a certain encumbrance weight), to lightly jog across the terrain non-stop, but with a greater hit to fatigue, hunger and thirst.

[Dirmagnos]

10 hours ago, mystifeid said:

Lol. It doesn't really matter to me because I know that twenty to twenty-five years from now, you will find out the truth of the matter first hand.

Im familiar with concept, that every 10 years or so we suddenly realize that NOW we are wiser than 10 years ago. Unfortunately its an unending process that is heavily dependent on our experience of the world, not our age. In fact as body deteriorates, out perception becomes worse and worse.

9 hours ago, cekivi said:

Whereas I'll enjoy my 20s while they last

Smug sob. 8)

8 hours ago, Boston123 said:

Sprinting tires you out. It isn't running back and forth on a soccer field.

Of course sprinting tires you out. Question is to what degree. Average person has nothing on Usain Bolt(neither in speed nor recovery), thats the point. And running in the game is more along the lines of jogging rather than sprinting.

[mystifeid]

3 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

Im familiar with concept, that every 10 years or so we suddenly realize that NOW we are wiser than 10 years ago. Unfortunately its an unending process that is heavily dependent on our experience of the world, not our age. In fact as body deteriorates, out perception becomes worse and worse.

Was running so very late this morning...

My thesis has always been simple: that the time required to reach the same level of fitness increases with age. Since mass and quality of muscle tissue decreases with age, then even if muscle mass can be built at the same rate then it should take longer to regain the same fitness level.

The corollary is that peak physical fitness is achievable earlier in life (say 30 or younger) rather than later in life.

Necessarily the time required to regain that peak physical condition at 60 is infinite. Or longer than we have.

Personally I find the energy stats given by TLD - ie average 2500 cals/day - to be quite low and that level of energy usage I would not normally associate with being 'fully invested' in anything.

And I'm pretty sure I wasn't talking about the getting of wisdom with age but does not our experience of the world increase with age?

Courtesy of American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons:

Quote

Aging Muscles:

- As muscles age, they begin to shrink and lose mass. This is a natural process, but a sedentary lifestyle can accelerate it.
- The number and size of muscle fibers also decrease. Thus, it takes muscles longer to respond in our 50s than they did in our 20s.
- The water content of tendons, the cord-like tissues that attach muscles to bones, decreases as we age. This makes the tissues stiffer and less able to tolerate stress.
- Handgrip strength decreases, making it more difficult to accomplish routine activities such as opening a jar or turning a key.
- The heart muscle becomes less able to propel large quantities of blood quickly to the body. We tire more quickly and take longer to recover.
- The body's metabolic rate (how quickly the body converts food into energy) slows. This can lead to obesity and an increase in "bad" cholesterol levels.

 

[Dirmagnos]

1 hour ago, mystifeid said:

Personally I find the energy stats given by TLD - ie average 2500 cals/day - to be quite low and that level of energy usage I would not normally associate with being 'fully invested' in anything.

And I'm pretty sure I wasn't talking about the getting of wisdom with age but does not our experience of the world increase with age?

2500 is quite average for a man since were not doing any heavy lifting. Even with cold energy usage does not increase significantly, about 10%.

Out experience increases, but out brain is not getting any younger either, its not only muscles that age. We forget things easier, process information slower and reaction time takes hit as well.

[mystifeid]

10 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

Out experience increases, but out brain is not getting any younger either, its not only muscles that age. We forget things easier, process information slower and reaction time takes hit as well

It's not all negative. Because there are different cognitive abilities, our physical peak seems to be much more clearcut as the peak of our cognitive abilities occurs at different times across our life. Some peak in very early adulthood, some in our thirties and some much later still.

From a quick refresher scan of the subject:

- processing information rapidly, keeping multiple pieces of information in memory and multitasking peaks in early adulthood.

- memory declines with age but this depends on the type of memory.

- scanning ability and perception of spatial relationships declines with age.

- there is a chance that problem solving skills involving new situations will decline markedly with age particularly old age.

- language and vocabulary skills decline little if any with age.

- recall of general knowledge and practiced skills including those that require problem solving are resistant to decline.

- we often have better appreciation or overview of an event due to greater experience associated with age.

- some complex combinations of cognitive skills such as those involved in social interactions are likely to remain intact.

- even with slower processing speed a lifetime of experience and knowledge can more than counterbalance in aiding interpretation and decision making, especially in social situations. This is called wisdom.

- cognitive decline is variable and is lower in people who are more intelligent at a young age or who maintain their cognition through education, occupation or other stimulating activities.

- enjoyment of life and a higher level of social engagement also promotes cognitive maintenance.

- good nutrition and physical activity is important in reduction of cognitive decline associated with vascular disease.

- some studies of cognitive abilities have been skewed considerably by undetected Oldtimers Disease and other brain diseases that are more common in older people.

[mystifeid]

10 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

2500 is quite average for a man since were not doing any heavy lifting.

Actually this appears to be average for a sedentary person - that is, someone who does not do much of anything at all - not someone 'fully invested' in day to day physical activity.

[Dirmagnos]

On 10/30/2016 at 3:03 AM, mystifeid said:

Actually this appears to be average for a sedentary person - that is, someone who does not do much of anything at all - not someone 'fully invested' in day to day physical activity.

Calorie requirements of a moderately active male of ages between 30 and 50 are around 2500. Depending on duration of activities and severity it can go as high as 3000, but average day in tLD is quite far from pulling a full mine cart for 12 hours a day. Most of the time player just strolls around.

[Hotzn]

On 26.10.2016 at 1:55 AM, exeexe said:

I dont like the mechanic that you are getting tired from sprinting. I think instead it should cost extra calories and water. I played a lot of soccer in my life and i know i dont get tired from sprinting. It also breaks the immersion a little. If you really want actions that gets you tired then it should be something like reading a book or a newspaper. Like imagine you are down to 20% condition and you want to heal up but are only 50% tired. Now you can read a newspaper get tired then sleep for 10 hours and heal up.

To my knowledge, sprinting does cost extra calories in the game. Don't know if it costs extra water as well. And it damn sure should cause fatigue to rise faster, just the way it currently does. From my own experience I can tell that playing soccer is completely different from hiking through rough terrain (or even over soft ground like sand or snow) with several kg of gear (let alone 30 kg or more). By that I mean that this kind of hike is a lot harder than, let's say, running around a soccer field for 90 minutes (I know what I'm talking about, just played 90 minutes last night). And I haven't even started talking about trying to run with hiking gear.

The rest of the discussion is running as expected (@exeexe, you have a talent for creating lively threads, I always enjoy them  ). @mystifeid - intelligent people do get wiser with age, you have proven the point (and more) very nicely in this thread. Thanks for the entertainment. 

[mystifeid]

Quote

A sedentary person is one who doesn't spend enough time being active, which according to the MayoClinic.com means completing less than two hours of moderate or 75 minutes of vigorous activity weekly. The number of calories your body burns in a sedentary state is determined by your basal metabolic rate, or BMR...

Calculate your BMR with the following formula for men from DietNation: 66 + (6.23 x weight in pounds) + (12.7 x height in inches) - (6.8 x age in year). Women should use a different formula: 655 + (4.35 x weight in pounds) + (4.7 x height in inches) - (4.7 x age in years). Multiply your BMR by 1.2 to determine your daily caloric needs in a sedentary lifestyle....

A 6-foot-tall, 28-year-old sedentary man weighing 200 pounds would calculate his BMR as follows: 66 + (6.23 x 200) + (12.7 x 72) - (6.8 x 28) = 2,150 BMR. Then multiply the BMR by 1.2 to calculate 2,580 calories needed each day.

How Many Calories Does a Sedentary Person Burn Each Day

Anyway, there are hundreds of online calorie counters and who is to say which one is right?

But try Googling 'rock climbing calories'.

It ain't hard to have a 5000+ cal day. (Plus all of my daily training was on rock. Continuously. I hate gyms.)

Have pity though on people like elite cyclists who top 8000+ cals/day or elite soldiers who probably put them to shame.

Why do people do it? The hormones released are very addictive. It becomes very unsatisfying not to do it. Do it for long enough and you may find yourself trying to do it for the rest of your life.

Since I see that our survivor is no longer 'fully invested' in something (sorry for repeating that but I like it - it evokes all sorts of imagery and memory) but is now merely 'strolling around' I will leave this discussion to you with the realization that we may have grown up on different sides of the train tracks with respect to physical exercise.

@Hotzn- undoubtedly you are someone who could make me wish for wisdom but thank you anyway.

To @Dirmagnos - a belated happy birthday!!

And apologies to everyone for dragging this thread so wildly off-topic and for so long.

[exeexe]

7 hours ago, Hotzn said:

@exeexeTo my knowledge, sprinting does cost extra calories in the game. Don't know if it costs extra water as well. And it damn sure should cause fatigue to rise faster, just the way it currently does.

If you look at the arrows of food and water you will see they are the same for standing still walking and sprinting. But the exhaustion arrow change from 1 arrow to 2 arrows to 3 arrows.

Edit: ok the food changes to 2 arrows

[cekivi]

Sprinting also slightly increases your "feels like" temperature but I can't remember if it's 1C or 2C.

[Dirmagnos]

8 hours ago, mystifeid said:

Anyway, there are hundreds of online calorie counters and who is to say which one is right?

But try Googling 'rock climbing calories'.

It ain't hard to have a 5000+ cal day. (Plus all of my daily training was on rock. Continuously. I hate gyms.)

Have pity though on people like elite cyclists who top 8000+ cals/day or elite soldiers who probably put them to shame.

Why do people do it? The hormones released are very addictive. It becomes very unsatisfying not to do it. Do it for long enough and you may find yourself trying to do it for the rest of your life.

Since I see that our survivor is no longer 'fully invested' in something (sorry for repeating that but I like it - it evokes all sorts of imagery and memory) but is now merely 'strolling around' I will leave this discussion to you with the realization that we may have grown up on different sides of the train tracks with respect to physical exercise.

@Hotzn- undoubtedly you are someone who could make me wish for wisdom but thank you anyway.

To @Dirmagnos - a belated happy birthday!!

And apologies to everyone for dragging this thread so wildly off-topic and for so long.

Now youre going overboard.

That 8000 cal example is extreme, its something that normally human body wont even be able to process. Those Tour de France cyclists jump thru hops to force body to absorb it thru extremely specific diet and conditioning. Articles even specifically mention that its not normal.

Similar situation is with rock climbing. Its not natural activity for human body, thats why calorie spending is that high. Plus those two are not sustainable for long periods of time.

As example id prefer something close to home and more specific. Arctic explorers consume between 4000 and 6000 cal per day. That fuels them to walk up to 12 hours a day, thru snow, under fairly extreme conditions, and pull sled that can weight up to 500 kilograms. tLD survivor is nowhere close to such strenuous activity.

Thx

[mystifeid]

Sounds like it might have got ugly for the polar explorers.

Captain Scott's team were 'killed by slimming diet' scientists claim

For ten years I worked for a company that, among other things, designed and manufactured mountaineering clothing and sleeping bags. I had the privilege of meeting Robert Swan (first person to walk to both poles) when he came to be measured. He was without doubt and by far the most charismatic person I've ever met. He needed to be I suppose but he could literally charm the pants off someone.

One of his companions on the 'In the footsteps of Scott' expedition - Dr Mike Stroud - estimated they used 6500 cals/day but this was dwarfed by later efforts where members used as much as 11500 cals/day.

Mike Stroud: exploring nutrition at the limits of endurance

[Dirmagnos]

Not much of actual data in that one page. I find it hard to believe that its possible to go like this for prolonged amount of time(if at all). And i found nothing online that would elaborate on those calculations, in fact, nothing at all that mentions it.

While 6500 sounds plausible and generally used as baseline for such efforts, it doesnt explain anywhere how exactly men managed to practically double that amount on some occasions or what they were eating to compensate for those losses. Because butter wont be enough for those numbers.