Reflections on Interloper

[mystifeid]

Firstly, if anything below ever sounds negative, you can balance it against this statistic : Steam says I have an embarrassing number of hours (852) playing this game so I obviously really enjoy it.

I've never played Pilgrim mode and played Voyageur just once but have spent quite a bit of time playing Stalker. This game had the tick mark on it and it had gone on the backburner. When the first new test build came out, I would not not have believed that I would play another 200 day game nor how many attempts it would take to get there. All credit to the developers for making something old, new again.

A lot of what I could say has already been covered by others so I will try not to re-hash things.

The first 50 days of Interloper is gripping, exciting and very challenging. The last 50 days of this run, not so much. In fact, with a few exceptions, the last 150 days have felt, through the blurry haze of my recollection, very much like I've been playing Stalker again.

During the first 50 days or so you are forced to move rapidly from place to place but after that, even when you want to move, it becomes hard to comprehend the logistics of moving the 50-60 kg pile of meat you have sitting around let alone the rest of your gear. I know this is just a sandbox but it would retain it's interest (for me) for longer if you were forced always to keep moving.

I like how the animals take longer to re-spawn especially the 50 day spawn time on the bears but I think it should be much longer. Every time I thought I might have to move somewhere else to find game, suddenly the deer, wolves/bear would re-spawn. Perhaps the bears should never re-spawn. At day 201 I am still eating 25 day old bear.

Even with level five cooking skill, I don't think you should be able to eat wolves and bears without some penalty. Eliminating the risk of both parasites and food poisoning only causes your meat pile to grow exponentially.

On the plus side I like that bear carcasses ruin so quickly - it makes you plan the bear hunt.

It would also be good to see snares dispensed with and for it to become harder to sustain yourself with fishing.

I like how after 200 days, despite an absurd amount of time invested, I am still only a level 3 fisherman (and level 4 mender) - it means there is still side challenge. I don't like that I am level 5 carcass harvester, cook, firestarter and archer - that's like game over in those areas. Perhaps there should be more levels with it taking longer to achieve the top rank.

I don't like the perks given in the top levels of the skills - I've mentioned the parasites and food poisoning above but I couldn't believe it when I saw the level 5 archery perks. Shoot while crouched! You might as well have just given me the rifle back (except that I've always preferred the bow). Fear around wolves becomes a thing of the past and rabbits/deer become sitting ducks. Whoops, that meat pile just got bigger again.

Ok, more skill levels but with the maximum perks capped at about what is offered at around level 3/4 now.

So I put a few arrows in a bear and I found it dead some time later but there was a wolf nearby. Normally, if I have 100% health (and a bow) and I see a wolf then one of us is soon history every time. This time though, The sun was out and I wanted to make sure I got that fire lit without having to use a match, so I decided to leave the wolf for the next day. I lit the fire and was standing right next to it when I started to harvest the bear carcass. Then the wolf attacked. I was so shocked it was all I could do to fight back. I can't ever remember being jumped by a wolf before when I was standing next to a fire. I wonder if this is a bug or a low probability event.

In 200 days it was the one of the most memorable moments I had. Shock value. I loved it.

Low probability events. Definitely something to think about. Lull them into a complacent state then Wham!

I think the backs of caves are too warm. I spent 10 days at Deer Clearing and another 10 at Eric's Falls. Not once did I have to light a fire to stay warm in the caves. And after about day 70 if I ever got caught out in a blizzard when there was a cave nearby, no problem, just run to the cave and no need to light a fire. (I crafted all the clothes asap and never found it a burden to keep them repaired)

A few people have commented that the promised worsening weather never eventuated and it certainly seems that way to me too. Wasn't the blizzard frequency supposed to increase? I remember at Day 87 I had survived 55 blizzards yet on Day 201 I have survived 114. Sounds like the frequency stayed about the same.

Anyway, that's about all I can think of right now. For interest sake the stats below are compared to stalker stats - most of which should come from a run of the same length.

 

[Scyzara]

Thanks for your feedback, @mystifeid! 

I for one agree to many of your points of criticism regarding the current Interloper late-game.

The first 30-50 days of Interloper feel really distinct from Stalker in my opinion and offer an entirely different experience, both regarding gameplay and emotional involvement.

But once you've crafted all tools, fur clothes, a bow and possibly a bearskin bedroll, things become tremendously easier. Worst of all is that it's not only getting easier, but also feels pretty much the same like late-game in the other three modes. In other words: The uniqueness of the experience somehow gets lost.

In my opinion the biggest problem by far is that - despite slightly  longer animal respawn timers - prey is still way too easy to find in Interloper late game. For me, scarcity is probably the most important core features of this mode and I'm quite sad that animals don't seem to ever get really scarce. (I don't have much time to play and thus haven't survived for more than 120days so far, but I somehow extremely doubt day 150, 250 or 500 would look that much different.)

I really wish animals were way scarcer in day 100+ Interloper games (not more than 10% of the current numbers at most), forcing you to actively move across the maps permanently in a desperate search for food.

Finding a deer (or wolf) should feel like an accomplishment (and give you a feeling of happiness like when you find one of the rare items in early game). That's what makes Interloper truely special to me. It's not only about the feeling of threat and vulnerability or about crafting your own tools, the emotional component of actually caring (and being happy) about your findings is definitely even more important to me personally.

I'm thus totally convinced that an Interloper late-game with massive prey scarcity would be way more enjoyable for me than the current post day 50 food overabundance.

[mystifeid]

4 hours ago, Scyzara said:

I'm thus totally convinced that an Interloper late-game with massive prey scarcity would be way more enjoyable for me than the current post day 50 food overabundance.

Agreed.

[Wastelander]

17 hours ago, Scyzara said:

Finding a deer (or wolf) should feel like an accomplishment (and give you a feeling of happiness like when you find one of the rare items in early game). That's what makes Interloper truely special to me. It's not only about the feeling of threat and vulnerability or about crafting your own tools, the emotional component of actually caring (and being happy) about your findings is definitely even more important to me personally.

Yep. I will readily admit I am not well-versed in Interloper, but accomplishing anything feels awesome.

[MueckE]

Something is strange ... you have managed to get to archery level 5 you said with 83 hits. In test_branch, i tested it on stalker how fast you can level. There was a bug in test_branch where you can shoot a dead wolf or deer and still level up - so i used this bug to look into the archery skills (posted in test_branch forum). Anyway, it took about 20 hits for level 2, 30 for level 3, 35 for level 4 and again 35 for level 5, oh and about 1,5 - 2 Bows. The forum has been closed and the bug been fixed, so i can't say how much exactly, but if remember correctly, i came up with at least 120 hits for level 5. There are no books or do you also level with the "gun books"? Or can you now level the skill without hitting an animal? Did they changed it when releasing update or do you need less hits on Interloper (i tested it on stalker)?

 

Only 5 hours rested outdoors in 200 days? 

[togg]

Jeez 114 blizzard in 200 days... and 0 can openers!

[Scyzara]

1 hour ago, MueckE said:

Did they changed it when releasing update or do you need less hits on Interloper (i tested it on stalker)?

You also get an archery skill point whenever you craft an arrow. 

[MueckE]

ahh ok, 168 bowshots = 42 arrows - this seems to be the answer

 

[mystifeid]

One thing I never had a shortage of was birch saplings. This character still has, I think, 30+ arrow shafts and to finally push that progress bar the last little bit and get lvl 5 I harvested an 80% arrow for the feathers to craft an arrow. (I was curious)

I lost 8 arrows into the floor of a cave and after that finding feathers became a never ending quest.

Also, @MueckE  - did you try hitting different animals like bears/rabbits to see if all hits are equal? (I don't know)

[mystifeid]

6 hours ago, togg said:

Jeez 114 blizzard in 200 days... and 0 can openers!

Probably first time ever that I didn't find one but get level 3 - or I think it's level 3 - cooking skill and they become irrelevant.

[MueckE]

I didn't test it on rabbits. Bears didn't work (the bug), only deer and wolf.

 

So 42 arrows + 30 shafts = 36 birch saplings

 

[mystifeid]

Just checked and still have 34 arrow shafts but you get 3 per birch sapling so that makes it at least 26 saplings - not 36.

I still have quite a few spots to check, some of which are chances for 5 saplings.

And don't know about you, but I think a wolf should count for more than a deer.

[cekivi]

17 hours ago, mystifeid said:

And don't know about you, but I think a wolf should count for more than a deer

Debatable. The wolf is certainly a smaller target but a wolf will also come much closer to you than a deer would.

Take this with a large grain of salt though as I am terrible with bow hunting in the game

[mystifeid]

If you are hunting a wolf, trust me, unless you are very quick and never miss, you don't want to be shooting from as close as possible. Give yourself a bit of extra distance.

Twice in this game, after being slow/missing, a wolf took me to under 10% health and my clothing to around 50%. Both of those struggles occurred on Crystal Lake so I managed to stumble fairly easily to safety. Another time when I was much further away and already cold I was taken to around 20%. I don't even want to think about the number of times they've killed me.

Deer just don't do that sort of thing. There is no risk.

[togg]

I don't know if someone already discovered it and point it out but in interloper I've found a bedroll in

Desolation Point!

here specifically

[mystifeid]

A little off-topic but...

Yep, found it a few times under the boats and when you find the lantern upstairs it seems like the bedroll will be in Scruffy's cave.

[togg]

He just

killed me on latest run... Going on that cave is not a good idea.

[mystifeid]

Bad luck.

 

Spoiler

After you enter the cave, at about the third patch of snow, it forks. Scruffy can attack you around here so it is a good place for a fire as occasionally there is also a deer carcass here. Take a brand from the fire and run up the right hand fork and continue until the end. Sometimes there will be absolutely nothing here. Run back to the fire after looting anything you find. If you want some excitement you can take another brand and take the other branch of the cave (more or less straight ahead) to where the cave opens out and there may be more dead deer. Be prepared to start lighting a fire at the drop of a hat but the idea is to get one next to a deer carcass. Scruffy will be going mental as you harvest it. When you are finished watch where Scruffy goes and at an opportune moment, grab another brand and run out of the cave.

Remember that taking a brand takes ten minutes from the life span of a fire.

Alternately, if you have a torch or lantern you can just run in, take the right hand fork, loot anything you find and then run out again.

It helps if you already know where the cave forks.

 

[Kyopaxa]

And once there are no animals or plants and a constant blizzard is outside, you character dies and your game ends...

I can't stop thinking we're missing the point here. I don't think making the game 99% impossible to survive is the right answer. I think the two most important things to address in this game now are "(A) what to do to survive needs more things", and "(B) there is nothing to do once I survive", which is what happens to everyone sooner or later.

Lots of things in the road map are already great ideas to address (A) and (B). Those ideas are just not implemented yet and I think that should be the first priority (after the story mode of course). Because it doesn't matter how scarce and cold you make the game, (A) and (B) issues will always be there at some point and need to be addressed.

[cekivi]

1 hour ago, Kyopaxa said:

And once there are no animals or plants and a constant blizzard is outside, you character dies and your game ends...

I can't stop thinking we're missing the point here. I don't think making the game 99% impossible to survive is the right answer. I think the two most important things to address in this game now are "(A) what to do to survive needs more things", and "(B) there is nothing to do once I survive", which is what happens to everyone sooner or later.

Lots of things in the road map are already great ideas to address (A) and (B). Those ideas are just not implemented yet and I think that should be the first priority (after the story mode of course). Because it doesn't matter how scarce and cold you make the game, (A) and (B) issues will always be there at some point and need to be addressed.

Very succinct argument

[Sapped]

On 2016-10-04 at 8:31 PM, cekivi said:

Debatable. The wolf is certainly a smaller target but a wolf will also come much closer to you than a deer would.

Take this with a large grain of salt though as I am terrible with bow hunting in the game

I'm terrible with bow hunting as well.  I had given it up for a while, but recently decided to give it another go.  So far it seems the only way I have luck hitting a deer, is if it turns and runs in my direction.  Wolves can be easier, in one kind of situation - if there is a car available.  I have taken to encouraging a wolf to stalk me back to a car, and then ducking inside when it charges.  I then pop out the opposite side, and before the wolf has noticed, strike it with an arrow.  Usually they are not much more than 10 paces away.  I know it's not exactly brave hunting, but I had to find some way to counter the insane aiming difficulty of the bow.

[mystifeid]

3 hours ago, Kyopaxa said:

And once there are no animals or plants and a constant blizzard is outside, you character dies and your game ends...

I can't stop thinking we're missing the point here. I don't think making the game 99% impossible to survive is the right answer. I think the two most important things to address in this game now are "(A) what to do to survive needs more things", and "(B) there is nothing to do once I survive", which is what happens to everyone sooner or later.

Lots of things in the road map are already great ideas to address (A) and (B). Those ideas are just not implemented yet and I think that should be the first priority (after the story mode of course). Because it doesn't matter how scarce and cold you make the game, (A) and (B) issues will always be there at some point and need to be addressed.

If it is 99% impossible to survive, how is it going to happen to everyone sooner or later? Most people would give up if that is the case. As it well may be.

In Interloper the (more) things one needs to survive, I think, are strategies and learning to use what is already in the game to maximum effect. Then if you survive to see whatever goal you've set for yourself, one needs to remember this is a sandbox and at some point, no matter what is added or changed you will get tired of it.

How long are you prepared to play the same character in a game? One hundred hours? Two hundred? Five hundred?

I'm not trying to invalidate your points because I would like those things too but I think that for what may have been a minimum of effort for the developers, Interloper was a brilliant way to reinvent TLD.

[cekivi]

Welcome to the forums @Sapped!

Pinning the wolves on railings also sometimes works

[King.Of.Print]

a more weak bow shot, especially while crouch, making the bear virtually impossible to kill with a bow is a good compromise.
for food, just make eating only one type bad ideia, in other words "if you only eat meat you get sick".
and make sure that anothers carnivore will gather around the player stock pile of meat, in such way that you get kind of trap if you have too much.
also making the respawn less frequent is the easy way to solve the "too much food" problem.
BTW, cave are normally above -0 celsius, and you can't get that hard on everyone, but house can get cold that -0 celsius.

P.S.: I have see cats open all sorts off door, why a bear/wolf can't? be the way, why a bear whould when he can knock it down?

[mystifeid]

Part 2

Some people are happy to play this game ad infinitum and good luck to them. For me, if I can settle into a routine the game quickly becomes boring. So 200 days for one character in the existing sandbox is quite enough and already represents somewhere between 50 and 70 hours real time.

After the first time where I merely cautiously survived for 200 days, mostly in the Timberwolf Mountain region, this time I wanted to be more adventurous and see just how hard Interloper could become.

The plan was simple. Begin as always by moving as quickly as possible to Mystery Lake harvesting five deer carcasses along the way and leaving the hides and guts in the Carter Hydro Dam to cure while I do the grand tour of the region and along the way, collect necessary items such as the hammer, bedroll, matches, hacksaw and cat tails. On my return to the dam I craft snares which I place in the Ravine and harvest rabbits while I craft the deerskin pants and boots. If I have been quick I will also craft the rabbitskin mittens here. Then on to Desolation Point.

After crafting my knife, bow and arrows, since Pleasant Valley traditionally has the worst weather, this was where I wanted to primarily base myself. Yet once I established myself to some degree, I wanted to revisit all maps and if possible explore 100% of them before returning once more to Pleasant Valley.

After fading into the long dark on day 73 at the first attempt, killing more wolves was added to the plan.

So what changed between the first and second 200 day run.

Well, I don't make the hatchet anymore. Whetstones are probably one of the first resources that will be consumed in a longer game and not having a hatchet will greatly prolong a revisit to Desolation Point to craft more knives. There are some items which cannot be chopped up with a hacksaw such as large limbs and large pieces of furniture and, at least in Pleasant Valley, there is a significant additional health drop associated with chopping up wood in the open with a hacksaw. However it no longer becomes necessary to remember to drop the hatchet before crafting to avoid the time penalty. All in all, I never missed it.

Without a doubt the best time in the game was between day 40, when I returned to Pleasant Valley and day 70 which was shortly after I had crafted the wolfskin coat and was also the day I left to resume exploring. Possession of that coat along with the other crafted clothing and a maximum 23/16 clothing bonus severely diminishes the challenge. Before crafting the wolfskin coat, life is a struggle and I became used to seeing my health drop to 50-60% from the cold. Often decisions must be made quickly and a wrong decision, once committed, must often be seen through. It is exciting and for me this period has become the highpoint of Interloper.

It is hard to be objective but the weather in Pleasant Valley seemed to be colder and more persistently windy than Timberwolf Mountain. It was usually a mistake to light a fire in the open. (If I was hunting deer I would herd them when possible to somewhere very close to and sometimes right next to the place I was encamped before shooting them with an arrow.) I did experience a lot more blizzards this time. Compare 153 to 114. This had the effect of driving me from the Farmstead to Forest Cave for up to a week at a time where I would gleefully kill the wolves, hunt some deer and rabbit, and let the fish in Pensive Pond taunt me. Once again, after crafting the wolfskin coat I never had to light a fire to stay warm in the cave, even at night in a blizzard - although if I had seen the temperature reported by @Scyzara that would have changed.

I liked that before day 70 I was first forced to the cave by the risk of cabin fever and then forced to leave the cave, at night, in a blizzard.

This is the coldest temp I saw in 200 days.

Knowing the reward on offer for a level 5 archery skill made me strive for it above all others and it was achieved on day 140. If life becomes easier after the wolfskin coat, it becomes a beach with this skill perk. Below is a screenshot of my meat pile circa day 190. Each piece has been checked and is one kg - there are 84 of them. At some point carcasses are no longer harvested and I become the worst type of hunter - the sport hunter.

Despite visiting all maps two to three times each I could only find 145 locations (95%) and either I don't know about seven or eight locations or it is a reflection of the fact that one can never truly explore 100% of the world.

When traveling it was with some dismay I found that, no sooner had I shot, harvested and cooked a deer and then moved on, I would quickly run into another one. It seems there is unlimited game for an itinerant hunter.

I was glad to return to Pleasant Valley and cannot help but feel that this map, in Interloper, is the most challenging and therefore, the most fun.

In the end I did kill more wolves this time too.

In a sandbox, of all things, apparently produced by one third of an already small team and that still has the word Alpha attached to it (not RC or even Beta), it's scary that I now have 1k hours logged. With over 200 games and 11 years on Steam this is only the third title to reach that mark. I'm not sure whether to thank Hinterland or curse them. One thing is certain - they're pretty good at what they do.

Once more, here are the full stats.