Am I the only one who plays TLD because it's "boring" ?


miah999

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I play The Long Dark for the quiet walk through the end times. I rarely play on stalker... not that I can't but it just doesn't add anything to the game for me. I'm not here for that challenge, I don't need to be fighting constantly. There are so many other games for that.

I keep hearing that the game is boring, that you need more things to do, that the animals aren't dangerous enough. And every time I hear these arguments, I feel like those players have missed the point somehow, but that's just an opinion. 

The sandbox is about survival and that's it. It was never really meant to be a stand alone game, and yet for me it has become a favorite. Just walking around looking at the trees and marveling at a peaceful world is all the escapism I need from TLD

These forums are filled with great discussion about things to add to TLD, some of them I even support, but I don't think the game needs to be more difficult, challenging, or engaging. 

Is there anyone out the that feels the same way? I know a lot of you probably disagree, and that's fine. I want everyone to find something to love in this game.

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2 hours ago, miah999 said:

I play The Long Dark for the quiet walk through the end times. I rarely play on stalker... not that I can't but it just doesn't add anything to the game for me. I'm not here for that challenge, I don't need to be fighting constantly. There are so many other games for that.

I keep hearing that the game is boring, that you need more things to do, that the animals aren't dangerous enough. And every time I hear these arguments, I feel like those players have missed the point somehow, but that's just an opinion. 

The sandbox is about survival and that's it. It was never really meant to be a stand alone game, and yet for me it has become a favorite. Just walking around looking at the trees and marveling at a peaceful world is all the escapism I need from TLD

These forums are filled with great discussion about things to add to TLD, some of them I even support, but I don't think the game needs to be more difficult, challenging, or engaging. 

Is there anyone out the that feels the same way? I know a lot of you probably disagree, and that's fine. I want everyone to find something to love in this game.

I usually use the game for relaxation at times (I'm calling relaxing trying not to die) I will admit I get bored eventually,  but only after a certain time and then I just leave it and use it when I feel like it again (starting a new game a week later). I bought the game for the sandbox alone and to support hinterland, the actual game for the story is a plus I will have in the future and for which I will buy the other seasons happily. 

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I feel very much the same. Although I also have many things I'd like to see added, I'm actually quite happy with the game. I didnt even realize it HAD a story mode until after I bought it, so I can never say I'm not happy about lack of Story mode. I also rarely play on Stalker, because the constant battle with wildlife just doesnt interest me, and the fact that I have to eat 6 kilos of meat a day and drink 6 liters of a day and that i freeze to death in a couple hours outdoors with temps of -5...its just so unrealistic that I can't stomach it. I often play on Voyager, just to make things a little more interesting, but most of my time is spent on Pilgrim mode, just enjoying the scenery.  Of course, I've been a solo backpacker for most of my adult life, so that whole aspect of the game, just hiking and taking in the sights is very engaging for me.  I also think that in some ways, Pilgrim mode has its own challenges that the others don't offer, like getting a wolf coat, and meat can actually be harder, because you actually have to stalk and hunt the animals instead of them coming directly to you all the time. I really wish there was a custom difficulty where a player could choose within an established range how they wanted the different aspects of the game to be, but yeah, the "to boring" complaints are very hard for me to understand/ empathize with. 

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1 minute ago, TROY said:

  I also think that in some ways, Pilgrim mode has its own challenges that the others don't offer, like getting a wolf coat, and meat can actually be harder, because you actually have to stalk and hunt the animals instead of them coming directly to you all the time. 

This is a really key observation. Truly, we see the Experience Modes as just that--different ways to approach the game. They engage us in different ways and ask different questions. The same goes for the Challenges. 

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The thing is...... The Long Dark isn't a very good "survival" game. It, ....... really isn't. It tries to be, but the lack of "realism"/challenge (probably a better term) drags me out of whatever immersion I build up.

In "real world" survival, there is almost always something to do. Maintain your tools, maintain your equipment, craft, cook, clean, gather material, etc. All of that requires thought and effort on your part. You are engaged in the task; when you sharpen your knife, you are paying attention to the angle of the blade, how much pressure you are applying, etc. When you process game, you are deeply involved in the task, cutting out specific cuts of meat, carefully removing the hide, etc.

In The Long Dark, almost everything "worth doing" in a survival game is abstracted behind a progress screen. Processing game? Progress screen. Sharpening tools? Progress screen. Probably the "best" thing to happen to TLD in that regards was the Deep Forest update, which required you to now go out an physically pick up firewood. Before that?

Progress Screen.

You get my drift.

And, when there isn't anything to do, you just sit there. Waiting for something to happen so you can do something. Waiting for a bar to decrease so you can fill it up again. Building up a stockpile so you can ..... I dunno, avoid doing something, like going outside for a couple of days, which you have to do because of cabin fever. Go out every couple of days to chase a deer into a wolf. 

Don't get me wrong, I love The Long Dark. But, I can't play it for very long. Staring at progress screens sucks the joy out of life. I rarely make it past a week in game before I get fed up and play something else.

How about actually making our in-game lives worth living? Add some aspects of the scenarios you so cleverly created into the sandbox. A weeklong blizzard is coming through, better stock up!  A bear takes a sudden interest in us and turns manhunter. The aurora clears up, and over a radio you hear about a ship broadcasting for survivors. Better get down to the coast!

Or, add some actual meaning to books. How much would it cost for some interns to write some little snippets and copy-paste them into the Skill books in-game? Cooking recipes? (Add some enjoyment to the cooking skill!), etc. Day Z has probably around a hundred actual novels you can actually pick up and read in-game. Grab some books from the public domain and stick them in-game. I know that I, for one, would totally spend hours of real-time searching for and reading said books in-game. I spent weeks doing that exact task in Skyrim.

Or, challenge. I know you guys hear this a lot, but ....... seriously. Survival in this game is trivial past day 3. Make game rare, so you actually have to go out and find it, make snaring rabbits realistically difficult, etc.

Just my two cents.

 

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20 minutes ago, Boston123 said:

Or, add some actual meaning to books. How much would it cost for some interns to write some little snippets and copy-paste them into the Skill books in-game? Cooking recipes? (Add some enjoyment to the cooking skill!), etc. Day Z has probably around a hundred actual novels you can actually pick up and read in-game. Grab some books from the public domain and stick them in-game. I know that I, for one, would totally spend hours of real-time searching for and reading said books in-game. I spent weeks doing that exact task in Skyrim.

I gotta say, comparing this game to DayZ (and I realize you only compared one aspect, but that fact actually strengthens my point here) really isn't fair. OK, so Dayz has books. Books that you can sit and read in game while you wait for your character to get hungry or thirsty. If reading books is your thing dude, log off and go read one. When was the last time you had to sharpen your hatchet in DayZ? Clean your rifle?  What do you do when you need firewood? You swing an ax at a tree 3 times and it falls over and the wood magically appears in your backpack. What happens when you craft clothing? you click a button and .2 milliseconds later, the clothing magically appears in your backpack. I say, AT LEAST TLD is realistic enough to account for the passage of time, progress bar or not. How is an animal harvested in DayZ?  you click on it and meat and a skin magically appear where the animal was.  I'm not bashing YOU, or DayZ (Ive spent hundreds of hours playing it) but your comparison was unfair. Maybe I misunderstood, and you are simply pointing to it as an example, but I would ask that you consider many other "examples" that can be pointed to which show TLD is actually quite advanced, both in Mechanics and actual survival reality. 

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1 minute ago, TROY said:

I gotta say, comparing this game to DayZ (and I realize you only compared one aspect, but that fact actually strengthens my point here) really isn't fair. OK, so Dayz has books. Books that you can sit and read in game while you wait for your character to get hungry or thirsty. If reading books is your thing dude, log off and go read one. When was the last time you had to sharpen your hatchet in DayZ? Clean your rifle?  What do you do when you need firewood? You swing an ax at a tree 3 times and it falls over and the wood magically appears in your backpack. What happens when you craft clothing? you click a button and .2 milliseconds later, the clothing magically appears in your backpack. I say, AT LEAST TLD is realistic enough to account for the passage of time, progress bar or not. How is an animal harvested in DayZ?  you click on it and meat and a skin magically appear where the animal was.  I'm not bashing YOU, or DayZ (Ive spent hundreds of hours playing it) but your comparison was unfair. Maybe I misunderstood, and you are simply pointing to it as an example, but I would ask that you consider many other "examples" that can be pointed to which show TLD is actually quite advanced, both in Mechanics and actual survival reality. 

I was using it as an example solely for the books.

Not to mention, Day Z is in Alpha, just like TLD is. Most, if not all of those aspects of Day Z you mention, are going to be changed. They are placeholders.

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Ok @Boston123, that's what I was talking about folks saying that there is nothing to do. I always have something to do, if it's not crafting or maintaining my gear. I'm traveling and exploring. I'm over 80 days on my current save and have yet to explore TWM, or visit many game locations. I don't stockpile masses of food so I hunt and fish along the way. I travel light as well. So many folks here walk around with 80 lbs and think that's great. Me I go out with as little as 30 lbs, and still think it's too much. That way I'm always gathering, and using what I gather. 

I also don't find the "down time" that I do have that unrealistic, I've spent a lot of time out in the wood alone, and most of the time there was very little to do, especially near the end of the day. Your knife can only be so sharp, and your gun only so clean. If you have food and water for the next couple days there's no need to gather more. So you sit by your fire and play your harmonica, there's no reason to spend energy or tasks you don't need to do.

Note: I start a new save every time there is a big update, whether it's required or not.

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44 minutes ago, miah999 said:

 That way I'm always gathering, and using what I gather. 

I also don't find the "down time" that I do have that unrealistic, I've spent a lot of time out in the wood alone, and most of the time there was very little to do, especially near the end of the day.

I really believe this statement gets to the heart of the matter.  Many players expect the game to entertain them all the time. Others want it to be a wildlife combat game, some think it needs to physically and visually account for every move.  Maybe some of us arent expecting enough, but I'm willing to bet that most folks who will admit to "enjoying the boredom" have a couple things in common. 1 a minimalist approach to things regarding time spent outdoors (i.e backpacking) 2. an actual background in doing and being outdoors, particularly in non motorized and non extreme sports.  While the folks who would like to see more action from the game are probably "Gamers" or people who tend to engage in more heart pounding outdoor activities.  Theres nothing wrong with either outlook, and quite frankly, no one game is ever going to be all things to all people. Even those of us who revel in the quietness and slow pace wish some things were different, and even the folks who get extremely bored very quickly still find certain aspects of the game compelling. If they didn't they wouldnt bother coming here and asking for more excitment, theyd just uninstall and play something else.

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Don't worry @miah999, I am also one of those boring ones who likes playing pilgrim mode!

Stalker mode makes me totally paranoia and playing voyager is fun for a while but I like playing pilgrim mode the most. I also travel light and I just love wandering around and enjoy the beautiful surroundings. Eventhough I know all the maps, for some reason the ONLY place I can still get lost (in bad weather!) is the area between Trappers Homestead, Hunter's Blind, Tunnel Collapse and the Camp Office. I know I'm not the only one who still get's lost there sometimes. I wandered what makes that specific area so different? I never get lost on the other maps! I would like to see some similar "easy to get lost areas" on other maps because getting lost in bad weather makes pilgrim mode so much more exciting!

I also don't mind the "down time" in the game, but after a long time in pilgrim mode, after you visited all the maps, crafted all the clothes and made enough arrow heads, the game could use something to spice things up and makes you want to continue the game. Many things were already suggested on this forum like NPC's, mini games, arts, crafts, musical instruments, books and even a volleyball we can paint a face on for company. (hilarious idea @Pillock! :D)

 I think Hinterland is already working on it and that most of those things will show when they launch the game officially with story mode. Like Raphael said, you can only launch the game once. They just want to do it right. Of course they don't want to spill all the beans before the release! But after many delays, people are becoming impatient. We know the game is going to be great, so we want it ALL and we want it NOW! :big_smile:

I'm sure Hinterland is even more frustrated then we are for the delay and want to release the game as soon as possible. I wouldn't be surprised if they'd already release some of those things in the upcoming update, after the comments and complaints I read the last few days on this forum....

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2 minutes ago, Baukster77 said:

... Eventhough I know all the maps, for some reason the ONLY place I can still get lost (in bad weather!) is the area between Trappers Homestead, Hunter's Blind, Tunnel Collapse and the Camp Office. I know I'm not the only one who still get's lost there sometimes. I wandered what makes that specific area so different? I never get lost on the other maps! I would like to see some similar "easy to get lost areas" on other maps because getting lost in bad weather makes pilgrim mode so much more exciting! ...

I get lost there too. I usually think it's because I miscount the number of ridges between the blind and the tracks, but I'm never sure.

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@miah999 weird isn't it? I can't exactly pinpoint why that particular area is more difficult than the other areas but I sure hope the dev's do and that they read this topic.

If they could use that same trick in other maps, that would be great! :big_smile:

 

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I'd like to add a suggestion for a "time sink activity" for everyone who feels like there's nothing to do in their game atm and basically just wants to spend some ingame hours without watching progress bars: Try writing some journal entries. 

I know not everyone is into writing (or roleplaying), but for everyone who is, the TLD diary is a great time sink. Just try it out, you'll be surprised how many ingame hours have passed before you've finished your entry. Especially if you don't write in your first language.:normal:

In principle, the entries don't even have to be TLD-related of course.  Some of my journal entries actually contain excerpts from scientific papers, real life to-do lists or even my next week's shopping list (I either take a photo of the monitor with my phone or copy the text from the TLD journal into a word file and print it out afterwards to preserve the information).:silly:

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Hahaha tha's great @Scyzara! TLD to-do and shopping lists....so cool!:geek:  I'm going to try that too!

I already did write some stories and brain-farts in the journal during "down time". But I know myself... walking around in the grocery store with a TLD shopping list on my phone , I will come home with a bag full of beef jerky, canned tomato soup, peaches and rosehip tea! :D

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I'm one of those guys asking for increased difficulty, but I tend to think that it should be a difficulty based in planning and management of the resources and not just making the wildlife a nightmare, so I'm not a fan of the Stalker game rules either... but at the same time I think its absolutely brilliant to have three different game experiences in the same pack. Pilgrim is awesome for chilling. Voyager has a taste of adventure. And Stalker is just "the challenge". I would encourage the dev team to keep embracing this idea as I think thanks to that they are closer to please the majority of us (an advanced sandbox where we could tweak the game parameters at will would be perfection though).

The thing with this Early Access games is that the community usally gets confused regarding what the game tone and concept should be about.

Any of us could argue that the sandbox mode was just a playtest scenario designed for the alpha testers to experiment the game mechanics that would be later implemented into the story mode. Today, the sandbox has a ton of weight in TLD, but we don't know what we should expect out of it just yet, we all want different things in one way or another and that's both the beauty and the beast of the Open Development world. 

The original ideas are often greatly evolved into something that could even conflict with the marketing campaing that attracted players in the first place. Some examples of what can be found on the website, basically what most people will see before jumping into the support of this project in particular:

Quote

HOW FAR WILL YOU GO TO SURVIVE?

Imagine the lights go out, never to return. Bright aurora flare across the sky, and all humanity’s technological might is laid to waste, neutralized in a kind of quiet apocalypse. Everything that has shielded humanity from the disinterested power of Mother Nature is suddenly wrenched from us, dropping us a few links down the food chain. Food and water are scarce. The roads are no longer safe. And winter approaches… Welcome to The Long Dark —an immersive survival simulation set in the aftermath of a geomagnetic disaster. Experience a unique first-person survival simulation that will force you to think and push you to your limits with its thought-provoking gameplay and mature storytelling

Or...

Quote

Survive By Your Wits Alone

Be on the lookout for potential supply caches, all the while using survival skills to overcome hazards introduced by harsh weather, wildlife, lack of food and water, and a myriad of potential injuries and afflictions. The game challenges players to think for themselves by providing the information but never the answers. You have to earn the right to survive

Or...

Quote

Survival of the Fittest

Deep survival simulation gameplay where every decision matters. Explore a large open world in search of resources. Monitor your Calorie count, Hunger and Thirst, Fatigue, and Body Temperature. Maintain your overall Condition if you want to survive. Let yourself weaken and any small threat may lead to your death

So its just somewhat normal that people expect a challenge (even when Steam reviews get swamped by people who say the game is too hard :S). It's a fact that the game is getting easier with each update. I was not here in earlier versions but for what I have read surviving each day was a challenge even for the experimented players.

TL:DR

While I completely understand and respect the statements about the game being great for chilling and scapism, I think these are made after the game concept changed and thus many other people are entitled to expect a different -harder and challenging- experience. 

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@Ohbal I see what your saying about the disconnect between the marketing and the current state of the game. A lot of that seems to stem from the statements Hinterland has made concerning the game's development in the past focusing on what is now called "Story Mode," but that was originally the only mode. The sandbox was created to support the story driven game-play, so one would assume 50% of the game's challenge is supposed to stem from those story elements. Remember the original plan was for the sandbox to be removed once the story launched, but due to the fan response Hinterland has decided not to do so. Maybe the "challenge" will increase when some of the story elements, like NPCs begin to move over to the sandbox.

I think patience is going to be a virtue here, let's wait and see where the game goes. Balance is always hard, and you can't be everything to everyone.

But for me personally I hope that Hinterland is able to increase the level of engagement and activities, with out ramping up the raw difficulty.

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10 minutes ago, cekivi said:

@miah999: Definitely not alone in preferred play style ^_^

For me, I'm still hoping for a "realism" mode with Voyager animals and Stalker (or worse) weather :winky:

 

I want a killing weather, way less loot of the food variety and animals that are rare and kinda difficult to find. (With wolves making serious damage, so trying to find one and one finding you is a terrifying challenge unless you have a rifle -and even then hope for a good shot-)

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That's why I think difficulty customization is the best solution. Some folks just want the game to be hard, others want realism, some of us think it's fine already. Custom difficulty sliders fix many of the issues for folks who taste falls in between the current difficulty modes, and could allow for a higher challenge.

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On 31.7.2016 at 10:36 AM, Baukster77 said:

Hahaha tha's great @Scyzara! TLD to-do and shopping lists....so cool!:geek:  I'm going to try that too!

I already did write some stories and brain-farts in the journal during "down time". But I know myself... walking around in the grocery store with a TLD shopping list on my phone , I will come home with a bag full of beef jerky, canned tomato soup, peaches and rosehip tea! :D

My local supermarket has beef jerky and tomato soup on sale this week. I am tempted, to say the least.

As for the topic the thread's actually about, I play my different saves for different reasons, and yes I do play one of them because it's "boring" or, as I'd rather say, relaxing. It's a bit like playing Call of Duty (or an actually decent shooter) and then switching to Stardew Valley (those who like farming check it out!), a relaxing change of pace. I personally don't play on Stalker difficulty because it takes away from what I appreciate TLD as - a game where death is rarely sudden and unexpected, but rather looming, creeping in on you while you still have a chance to fix things as long as the RNG doesn't hate you that day.

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Just for discussion's sake here is my current "Difficulty Slider" idea...

Wild Life:

Prey: Scarce - Normal - Plentiful

Predators:

Scarce - Normal - Plentiful

Docile - Realistic - Aggressive - Rabid

Loot:

Food: None - Scarce - Normal - Plentiful

Tools: None - Scarce - Normal - Plentiful

Weapons: None - Scarce - Normal - Plentiful

Weather:

Mild - Normal - Extreme - Permanent Blizzard

Aurora:

On - Off

Did I forget anything?

I don't know how hard this is to program, but I think it's probably possible.

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10 hours ago, miah999 said:

Just for discussion's sake here is my current "Difficulty Slider" idea...

Wild Life:

Prey: Scarce - Normal - Plentiful

Predators:

Scarce - Normal - Plentiful

Docile - Realistic - Aggressive - Rabid

Loot:

Food: None - Scarce - Normal - Plentiful

Tools: None - Scarce - Normal - Plentiful

Weapons: None - Scarce - Normal - Plentiful

Weather:

Mild - Normal - Extreme - Permanent Blizzard

Aurora:

On - Off

Did I forget anything?

I don't know how hard this is to program, but I think it's probably possible.

Again, it's a popular idea (custom difficulty) but one that the @Raphael van Lierop has already said they don't plan to support at this time. Mainly because balancing and testing is already difficult enough without the added complication of all the different difficulty permutations

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