Finding Ammo

[TROY]

This really isnt so much a how to play question, as a does anyone know...

I've noticed on my last few playthroughs where I lived a substantial amount of time, that the amount of ammo I find seems to diminish with each successive region. This seems to also be true of matches. For example, Many times, I've started in Coastal highway, and found a good deal of ammo there, but if I start in Mystery Lake, then loot PV, and TWM, then move on to CH, I find nearly none. Likewise, if I start in TWM, I find a fair bit, but if I save TWM for last, I find absolutely none. (except whats in the crate inside the plane section)  I tend to hoard it as much as I can, using as little as possible, same with matches. So, my question is, does anyone know for sure if the game checks for current count of something (like ammo) existing in the world, when it populates a new region with loot? Am I finding less and less because I'm hoarding it instead of using it?

 

[miah999]

I've noticed this as well. 

There seems to be some sort of hard cap on the amount of ammo the game generates between 70-130 (depending on difficulty, and RNG). Then it places the ammo throughout the regions starting with your starting region, placing the most there and less and less in each new region visited. I haven't played enough to figure out actual percentages, so it's just a hypothesis.

[continuity]

I suspect it may just be perception and RNG.  Ammo isn't really all that common on maps like ML. In my current game I think i found 25 rounds completely stripping the map of loot.

Honestly, I don't really even use the rifle.  Once I have a bow up and running its pretty much just an ornament in my camp due to the weight of the thing.

I would expect that all the loot is generated for the whole sandbox when you create it, all regions, so I doubt there is any progressive adjustment to loot spawn as you mention, I don't think there is any loot spawn except on sandbox creation.  At least that would make sense to me, anything else seems like over engineering the problem.

[AHGoodwin]

I'm pretty sure the loot is generated at the time you discover a location. Evidence being, if you go into your save files and delete the file for a location (i.e. buildings with a load screen, or entire zones) the location will reset as if it was never discovered. Doing such gives you a new roll regarding the loot you get (although some things do appear to be determined on map creation). I have done a bit of testing on this in the past week after finding mention of it on the steam forums. It makes it rather easy to get statistics such as "how often does x spawn at y". 

[cekivi]

In one of the recent updates the change notes I remember seeing it mentioned that the world is populated with objects when you start a new game. This was to prevent players from playing on one map until everything was depleted and moving on to the next and having all the equipment still at 100% condition as it spawned on transitioning to the new area.

[TROY]

1 hour ago, cekivi said:

In one of the recent updates the change notes I remember seeing it mentioned that the world is populated with objects when you start a new game. This was to prevent players from playing on one map until everything was depleted and moving on to the next and having all the equipment still at 100% condition as it spawned on transitioning to the new area.

This, along with what Miah said about a hard cap on certain things like ammo, makes sense.  And I suppose its probably programmed to weight the areas where you spawn, and closest to that region, a bit heavier. This helps me feel better about thinking that I'm getting sloppy with my searching and missing things. I never thought about to much until recently, when i found just 4 single rounds in CH, which has historically been a good ammo producer for me. 

[AHGoodwin]

The idea that the world is populated with loot at sandbox creation doesn't seem to match up to my findings. The files for each location are not even created until you visit them..... Is there something I'm missing? If the data was stored somewhere else in the meantime (before the file being created), then wouldn't resetting the location by deleting the file then result in the same exact loot each time?

[miah999]

12 minutes ago, AHGoodwin said:

The idea that the world is populated with loot at sandbox creation doesn't seem to match up to my findings. The files for each location are not even created until you visit them..... Is there something I'm missing? If the data was stored somewhere else in the meantime (before the file being created), then wouldn't resetting the location by deleting the file then result in the same exact loot each time?

I don't know exactly how it's done but according to the v.321 patch notes:

"Decay System Overhaul

Previously, items in the world would only start to decay once the player entered the region they existed in. This made tuning unnecessarily complicated and led to some undesirable player behaviours. As of this update, all items in the world now begin to decay as soon as a Sandbox is started. To balance this, all item decay rates have been re-balanced on a much longer time-scale -- 1000+ days, as compared to the previous tuning which was on more of a 100+ day timescale. We’ve also added some decay modifiers to account for interior/exterior storage, and more realistic decay for fish and meat items (both raw and cooked). We feel that this overhaul keeps item decay at reasonable levels while supporting both nomadic (explorers) and sedentary (hunkering down) play styles."

That seems to suggest that some loot is generated as game creation.

[cekivi]

@miah999 - that was the note I was thinking of. Thanks for looking it up

[TROY]

Is it possible that the game does both? tracks decay and spawns items in an appropriate range, but does not actually spawn them until a place is visited?

 

[cekivi]

Always possible. The downside of being a volunteer forum mod is I have no more information than anyone else

[TROY]

5 hours ago, cekivi said:

Always possible. The downside of being a volunteer forum mod is I have no more information than anyone else

Wait, what? You mean you can't go drag a dev in here by his ear and BEAT him til he answers this question for us??  Oh wow. So not as much fun as I thought you were having with that position.

[cekivi]

The upside of being a mod is you get to see a lot of interesting forum discussions

[Patrick Carlson]

On 7/24/2016 at 2:29 PM, TROY said:

This really isnt so much a how to play question, as a does anyone know...

I've noticed on my last few playthroughs where I lived a substantial amount of time, that the amount of ammo I find seems to diminish with each successive region. This seems to also be true of matches. For example, Many times, I've started in Coastal highway, and found a good deal of ammo there, but if I start in Mystery Lake, then loot PV, and TWM, then move on to CH, I find nearly none. Likewise, if I start in TWM, I find a fair bit, but if I save TWM for last, I find absolutely none. (except whats in the crate inside the plane section)  I tend to hoard it as much as I can, using as little as possible, same with matches. So, my question is, does anyone know for sure if the game checks for current count of something (like ammo) existing in the world, when it populates a new region with loot? Am I finding less and less because I'm hoarding it instead of using it?

 

(Dragged by the ear)

Different regions in the game do have different item spawn characteristics. There are different shelters, locations where we might see a corpse, ect. ect. This can affect things like loose ammunition and ammo boxes as well. For example it's always good to check in some dark cabinet drawers or under the overturned lazy boy in the Coastal Highway Abandoned Lookout. The game isn't testing whether or not you are using rifle rounds (or a knife) when you visit a new region. You may still end up with a greater or lesser number of a specific item than you expect.  

[Doc Gonzo]

On ‎7‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 8:42 PM, cekivi said:

Always possible. The downside of being a volunteer forum mod is I have no more information than anyone else

Yeah but we still like you anyway  ;-)

[cowboymrh]

I just found a box of ammo with my 580 day character behind jackrabbit Island!!  I've probably walked by it a half dozen times! .....And I'll be there's more out there

[cekivi]

9 hours ago, Doc Gonzo said:

Yeah but we still like you anyway  ;-)

Thanks Doc

[Nicholai]

Well, some of them are really well hidden. Forexample, I barely saw one box above a wardrobe in CH, one box inside of a huge pipe in DP (why do someone enter into a pipe? it's natural if you cannot find ), one box in the middle of nowhere (really irrelevant location, just in the middle of nowhere). You know, you can play cs go with the ammo you find at tail section in TWM.

 

Nevertheless, I suggest using bow instead of rifle. 4 kg load is excessive if you're well geared and prepared for wilderness. It's also easy to fire to close target with a bow, especially if the wolf runs toward you. I only use rifle to lure a bear through the terrace of farmstead. 

[Thurman Merman]

In my latest run, I have fired 18 shells and have another 135, IIRC, at my base.  I'm pretty sure I have scoured every inch of the map, so that should be a good approximation of how much is out there.  Around 150 per sandbox?