It's all about....Fallout ;)

[Wasteland Watcher]

15 minutes ago, Tbone555 said:

to everyone claiming fallout 4 is not an RPG

go on their website, look up "Another Life" in the mods. download it. there you go. problem solved.

another life saved this game for me

Another Life is a good alt-start mod but it didn't fix 4's main issue: the way to resolve over 90% of quests is by shooting people or other things in the face. 

In 3, you could finish many, many of the quests through your different Skills like Science, Repair, Speech, etc.

In other words, a non-violent solution was included. 

4 lacks this, and removed Skills, because it's just a Borderlands copy (shoot everything to finish quests, randomly generated weapons, tons of legendary enemies). 

 

Speaking of good Alt Start mods, Custom Begining Deluxe for FO3 is probably the best one (found at  No Mutants Allowed website)  

[cekivi]

@Wasteland Watcher: I really disliked Mothership Zeta but I actually got a big kick out of Old World Blues. It reminded me a lot of the old black and white 50's Sci-Fi and I thought the humor was spot on

I also seem to have noticed a trend that the first Fallout game you play seems to influence which sequels you like better. I played Fallout, Fallout 2 and Fallout Tactics back in high school. So, for the longest time, those were "the" Fallout games. At one point I even got desperate enough to try Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel. My advice: do not try Fallout: BOS unless you're looking for a terrible game that's almost (but not quite) "so bad it's good".

[Wasteland Watcher]

3 minutes ago, cekivi said:

@Wasteland Watcher: I really disliked Mothership Zeta but I actually got a big kick out of Old World Blues. It reminded me a lot of the old black and white 50's Sci-Fi and I thought the humor was spot on

I also seem to have noticed a trend that the first Fallout game you play seems to influence which sequels you like better. I played Fallout, Fallout 2 and Fallout Tactics back in high school. So, for the longest time, those were "the" Fallout games. At one point I even got desperate enough to try Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel. My advice: do not try Fallout: BOS unless you're looking for a terrible game that's almost (but not quite) "so bad it's good".

Very true on which one did first having the strongest impact. Nothing like a good first impression

OWB hit that old camp humor spot on ( I used to watch many of those in the 70s) but I really strongly felt that they detracted from both the main story and the grim atmosphere and so grew to very strongly dislike them. Even now in my FO3 playthru's, I'll finish MSZ cause I'm a completionist, but after it's done I never return (and use console commands to delete the Transporter from the Wasteland).

Fallout BoS is to the original Fallouts what FO4 is to the new Fallouts 

[Tbone555]

20 hours ago, cekivi said:

really disliked Mothership Zeta

dont get me started there. i started a new game on very hard, intent on beating the game and all the DLCs without notching the difficulty down.

and it wasnt all that hard. i got to level cap doing as many side quests as possible, which made the main quests actually pretty easy. anchorage was simple enough, point lookout was pretty difficult but i got through it easily enough with some time, but mothership zeta. good GOD.

i was level cap. there isnt any "low level" excuse there. the shielded zetans took 3 clips from my tri-beam lazer rifle before going down. they, in turn, could kill me in about 5 shots, assuming they didnt miss. and i cant recall ONE of their shots hitting me anywhere other than my head. i ran out of stimpacks pretty quickly (i carried about a hundred of them on board) and was reduced to using the healing stations scattered around so i was VERY vulnerable through most of it.

im not one to get irritated at videogames. i never have, i think its silly to get angry or stressed over something so small. but mothership zeta got under my skin like nothing ever has xD

 

[Wasteland Watcher]

2 hours ago, Tbone555 said:

 but mothership zeta. good GOD

im not one to get irritated at videogames. but mothership zeta 

 

And to top it all off, you were not even playing X-Com.  Somehow XCOM aliens got into Fallout 

Because someone at Bethesda apparently likes the XCOM series enough to shoehorn an alien-based DLC into Fallout.   

Lame. 

[Tbone555]

2 hours ago, Wasteland Watcher said:

And to top it all off, you were not even playing X-Com.  Somehow XCOM aliens got into Fallout 

Because someone at Bethesda apparently likes the XCOM series enough to shoehorn an alien-based DLC into Fallout.   

Lame. 

well aliens have always been a part of the fallout lore, since fallout 1 if i remember correctly. but the DLC was pretty lame, yeah.

my personal favorite DLC for fallout 3 (i never played the new vegas DLCs and i can't be bothered to waste money for Fallout 4's DLCs) was operation anchorage. it was SO cool.

my clumsy breaks-everything-he-touches big brother broke my Fallout 3 game of the year edition. fortunately, i got to play through all the DLCs before that happened, but i still miss it dearly. just itching to play anchorage again, i swear.

[cekivi]

27 minutes ago, Tbone555 said:

well aliens have always been a part of the fallout lore, since fallout 1 if i remember correctly. but the DLC was pretty lame, yeah.

my personal favorite DLC for fallout 3 (i never played the new vegas DLCs and i can't be bothered to waste money for Fallout 4's DLCs) was operation anchorage. it was SO cool.

my clumsy breaks-everything-he-touches big brother broke my Fallout 3 game of the year edition. fortunately, i got to play through all the DLCs before that happened, but i still miss it dearly. just itching to play anchorage again, i swear.

If I had to order the Fallout 3 DLCs my pick would be Operation: Anchorage = Broken Steel > the Pittsburgh one (name escapes me!) >> the swamp one and Mothership Zeta way, way down on the bottom

For New Vegas... I'd probably go with Old World Blues = Dead Money > Honest Hearts and Lonesome Road also way, way down at the bottom

[Wasteland Watcher]

@Tbone555

 I played through the original Fallout a few times, most recent time being mid-last year, and aliens were not really a part of it so much as found as vague random encounters, similar to finding the alien blaster in F3.

@cekivi lists are fun 

I'd go with: Broken Steel, Operation Anchorage,  The Pitt, Point Lookout. Skip MSZ.

For FNV the least horrible was Honest Hearts. OWB was so awful I actually wanted a refund. The others I simply found boring but completed them anyhow.

 

[Tbone555]

8 hours ago, Wasteland Watcher said:

@Tbone555

 I played through the original Fallout a few times, most recent time being mid-last year, and aliens were not really a part of it so much as found as vague random encounters, similar to finding the alien blaster in F3.

 

i didnt say they were a HUGE part of the lore

but nah, i used to work at a gas station that NEVER had any business. i'd stand around all day eating snacks and looking at the Fallout wiki. after playing mothership zeta i was just thinking to myself "what in the name of Raph (i didnt really say that, this was before my long dark days xD) were they thinking with that piece of trash?"
so i looked up and read about the zetans and their presence and lore in other fallout games, then it made a bit more sense. the DLC still sucks though, dont get me wrong.

[Tbone555]

on a side note, fallout 4 isnt being mentioned too much here.

i think we should all take a moment to describe how dissapointed we were the first time we played through it, why dont you start, Wasteland Watcher? xD

[cekivi]

I haven't played Fallout 4 myself hence why I'm reserving judgement.

Based on the reviews and impressions of Fallout 4 that I've seen online though it will probably be a very long time until I do play it

No dialog trees, skills or stats means I'm not really interested at the moment.

[Tbone555]

12 hours ago, cekivi said:

I haven't played Fallout 4 myself hence why I'm reserving judgement.

Based on the reviews and impressions of Fallout 4 that I've seen online though it will probably be a very long time until I do play it

No dialog trees, skills or stats means I'm not really interested at the moment.

the perk system is a general improvement over Fallout 3's, i think. and the power armor and crafting is pretty slick, especially with mods. it generally has good gameplay. its just that, giving the character a voice and making you pick between 4 different options just ruined it for me and many others. and, as previously stated, most quests don't give you any choice on how to complete them. its just "shoot this guy in the face to complete this quest" through the entire game. the only decision you really make, is who to side with at the end. and no matter which faction you choose, it all turns out generally the exact same. it just doesn't feel like an RPG.
still a fun game, though. i just expected more from fallout, bethesda isn't the same these days.

[Wasteland Watcher]

@cekivismart move! I was a victim of the hype train. But I learned my lesson.

 

@Tbone555 though I'd really rather not discuss F4 because it tends to turn into a rant, here goes.

I'll start with the pros and then move on from there:

+graphics/ atmosphere /sound effects 

+ Power armor mechanics 

+  weather effects

- voiced player character 

- lack of/redundant dialogue choices 

- no weapon/armor degradation (only power armor degrades)

- removal of skills 

-few to none non-violent quest solutions; quests are weapon oriented (over 90% of quests have only a violent resolution which reinforces this being by design to make F4 "much more action oriented" as stated by T.Howard in interview)

-non lore abilities added to power armor

-non lore abilities added to ghouls

-dime a dozen "legendary" enemies which seem blatantly copied from Borderlands.

-randomized weapons, also copied from Borderlands.

-  action-game oriented, player controlled "critical hit" system (old crit system more RPG-esque and random)

 

 I think that sums it up 

[Tbone555]

5 hours ago, Wasteland Watcher said:

@cekivismart move! I was a victim of the hype train. But I learned my lesson.

 

@Tbone555 though I'd really rather not discuss F4 because it tends to turn into a rant, here goes.

I'll start with the pros and then move on from there:

+graphics/ atmosphere /sound effects 

+ Power armor mechanics 

+  weather effects

- voiced player character 

- lack of/redundant dialogue choices 

- no weapon/armor degradation (only power armor degrades)

- removal of skills 

-few to none non-violent quest solutions; quests are weapon oriented (over 90% of quests have only a violent resolution which reinforces this being by design to make F4 "much more action oriented" as stated by T.Howard in interview)

-non lore abilities added to power armor

-non lore abilities added to ghouls

-dime a dozen "legendary" enemies which seem blatantly copied from Borderlands.

-randomized weapons, also copied from Borderlands.

-  action-game oriented, player controlled "critical hit" system (old crit system more RPG-esque and random)

 

 I think that sums it up 

as far as non violence goes, go download.. i believe it's titled Non-violent Solutions or something along those lines. it allows you to hit people over the head to knock them out, or tranquilize / tear gas them instead of killing them. only lasts for a few minutes, mind you. (minus animals, of course. still gotta kill those)

i personally like the power armor. it may be non-lore, but thats how i expected it to work in the very beginning. when i first played fallout 3 and got the power armor i was like "but wait... 'let the armor do the work for you'... isnt that more of a mech suit than anything? and wouldnt this thing require some kind of power source to run like that? shouldnt it let me carry more in my inventory, being inside of it?" then in fallout 4, they added all those things. i think it was cool, but thats my opinion. thats coming from someone who hasnt played any of the classics, though. i PLAYED fallout 1, but i never got too far sadly.

what non lore abilities are added to the ghouls? they seem generally the same, except for the fact that they now have a neat run-and-jump-at-you-hell-bent-on-taking-your-head-off-your-shoulders animation. in fallout 3 they were healed by radiation and the glowing ones always had the ability to resurrect fallen ghouls around them, i believe. though, glowing ones and reavers were MUCH harder in fallout 3. that part on broken steel where you gotta go through the presidential train tunnel and you have to fight like a thousand roamers, reavers and glowing ones? oh man. bad memories, that... i ended up just giving up and running straight past them, i died SO many times xD

completely agreed on your other cons though. but i cant complain. i guess that was the point of giving me fallout 3 free with my copy of fallout 4, i can jump back and play it instead any time i want
only wish i had the DLC for it

[cekivi]

10 hours ago, Tbone555 said:

the perk system is a general improvement over Fallout 3's, i think. and the power armor and crafting is pretty slick, especially with mods. it generally has good gameplay. its just that, giving the character a voice and making you pick between 4 different options just ruined it for me and many others. and, as previously stated, most quests don't give you any choice on how to complete them. its just "shoot this guy in the face to complete this quest" through the entire game. the only decision you really make, is who to side with at the end. and no matter which faction you choose, it all turns out generally the exact same. it just doesn't feel like an RPG.
still a fun game, though. i just expected more from fallout, bethesda isn't the same these days.

Hum. It seems like they pulled a Mass Effect 3 with the ending. "Choose your colour of explosion!". Sigh. Indoctrination theory forever!

And wait, power armor needs batteries now? You're right, it is generally a mech suit (armored suit with hydraulics to assist movement) but the power pack was supposed to last 1000 years if I remember Fallout 1 and 2 correctly...

[Wasteland Watcher]

@Tbone555 thanks for the suggestion on the mod but "hitting someone over the head" is definitely not a nonviolent solution I'm interested in a mod called, "FO4 RPG" that is currently unfinished but intends to add actual RPG elements. If it actually fixes the game I'll play it again. 

I guess I must have not written my previous post very clearly:  I *like* the power armor system in F4, particularly how it finally simulates correctly being a "walking tank." That is really well done!

 But there are certain non-Lore elements that I don't like:

-Power armor does not fly. 

-Power armor is fueled by fusion cells which never need recharging because they last 1000 years.  BS just wanted a way to "balance" PA so made a new requirement for it to need recharging. 

-V.A.T.S. does not affect power armor at all as it is a completely unrelated and separate system. There's absolutely no reason that would have any impact on its power usage. 

The ghoul thing I'm referring to them no longer needing food/water to survive. It's just another lore inconsistency. I know some people don't care so much about it but for some, immersing themselves in the fake history is part of the fun. And in F3 at least BS made a decent effort to explain inconsistencies. In F4 they clearly couldn't be bothered in their rush to get the product out the door.  I wonder how much better it could've been if they had waited one year and polished it a bit more. Maybe they could have released a far better product that met both the expectations of their obvious target market (action gamers) as well as the older generation of "hard-core Fallout fans." But I'm getting sidetracked ...

Like @cekivi said, the "choose your color" ending with essentially the same outcome was very disappointing. At least in F3's Broken Steel we see how the effects of player actions impacted the Capital Wasteland in very different ways--everyone alive, or, numerous people keeling over dead after drinking the modified FEV infected water.

----------------------

Again, what I think leaves a bitter taste in my mouth is the fact that they took what's been known to be a very interesting RPG series and simply made an open-world shooter. 

And I read that they're releasing the final DLC they plan to for F4 soon, meaning I'm *oh so glad* I did not buy a season pass.

sigh...what a disappointment. And to think ...I used to be such a big Bethesda fanboy 

[cekivi]

Yeah, I've never been a big fan of fan mods to fix the game. Yes, it's great that they exist and there are fans that dedicated. But, if your plan as a company is to release something that a large part of your audience does not want and assume someone will fix it later for free... well, that's just not an ethical business practice.

[Wasteland Watcher]

@cekivi when I first started reading your comment I was going to say something about mods being a "dual edge sword" but you summed it up much better than I could have.

Bethesda has become lazy and simply relies on customers to fix their games with mods.  

 After how F4 went I just don't see myself buying anymore of their products.

[Patrick Carlson]

21 minutes ago, Wasteland Watcher said:

@cekivi when I first started reading your comment I was going to say something about mods being a "dual edge sword" but you summed it up much better than I could have.

Bethesda has become lazy and simply relies on customers to fix their games with mods.  

 After how F4 went I just don't see myself buying anymore of their products.

It's an interesting question. Bethesda games like Elder Scrolls and Fallout have historically appealed to different players for different reasons. I always liked the gunplay in F3 and NV, even if it was often derided as clunky or awkward. Same goes for combat in something like Morrowind or Skyrim. Somehow the breadth and strangeness of the worlds always made up for rougher areas. I enjoyed the exploration in F4 much much more than in F3 for example. Made some of the outdated bits easier to ignore I suppose. 

[Tbone555]

41 minutes ago, Patrick Carlson said:

It's an interesting question. Bethesda games like Elder Scrolls and Fallout have historically appealed to different players for different reasons. I always liked the gunplay in F3 and NV, even if it was often derided as clunky or awkward. Same goes for combat in something like Morrowind or Skyrim. Somehow the breadth and strangeness of the worlds always made up for rougher areas. I enjoyed the exploration in F4 much much more than in F3 for example. Made some of the outdated bits easier to ignore I suppose. 

i dont mean to complain about it, since f3 was my favorite and i have hundreds upon hundreds of hours and YEARS of childhood memories invested into it.

but i absolutely hated the gunplay. every enemy you encountered fought harder, rather than smarter. if i encountered a group of raiders, they would all just rush straight at me even if they had sniper rifles. i found it pretty impossible to play without vats, i relied on it more often than not. it was just awkward and overwhelming, really. f4 has much better gunplay in my opinion. especially with realism mods! when 3 shots from a raider can kill you, and 3 shots right back can kill them too, it feels authentic

2 hours ago, Wasteland Watcher said:

@Tbone555 thanks for the suggestion on the mod but "hitting someone over the head" is definitely not a nonviolent solution I'm interested in a mod called, "FO4 RPG" that is currently unfinished but intends to add actual RPG elements. If it actually fixes the game I'll play it again. 

I guess I must have not written my previous post very clearly:  I *like* the power armor system in F4, particularly how it finally simulates correctly being a "walking tank." That is really well done!

 But there are certain non-Lore elements that I don't like:

-Power armor does not fly. 

-Power armor is fueled by fusion cells which never need recharging because they last 1000 years.  BS just wanted a way to "balance" PA so made a new requirement for it to need recharging. 

-V.A.T.S. does not affect power armor at all as it is a completely unrelated and separate system. There's absolutely no reason that would have any impact on its power usage. 

The ghoul thing I'm referring to them no longer needing food/water to survive. It's just another lore inconsistency. I know some people don't care so much about it but for some, immersing themselves in the fake history is part of the fun. And in F3 at least BS made a decent effort to explain inconsistencies. In F4 they clearly couldn't be bothered in their rush to get the product out the door.  I wonder how much better it could've been if they had waited one year and polished it a bit more. Maybe they could have released a far better product that met both the expectations of their obvious target market (action gamers) as well as the older generation of "hard-core Fallout fans." But I'm getting sidetracked ...

Like @cekivi said, the "choose your color" ending with essentially the same outcome was very disappointing. At least in F3's Broken Steel we see how the effects of player actions impacted the Capital Wasteland in very different ways--everyone alive, or, numerous people keeling over dead after drinking the modified FEV infected water.

----------------------

Again, what I think leaves a bitter taste in my mouth is the fact that they took what's been known to be a very interesting RPG series and simply made an open-world shooter. 

And I read that they're releasing the final DLC they plan to for F4 soon, meaning I'm *oh so glad* I did not buy a season pass.

sigh...what a disappointment. And to think ...I used to be such a big Bethesda fanboy 

i had no idea about the battery lasting for a thousand years in power armor. that makes sense to me now, however i did know that power armor does not fly. thats the reason i never got the jetpack on mine i will have to look that mod up though! even if bethesda put out a piece of radioactive waste, i still want to get my moneys worth from it. i didnt intend to ever play the game again, before mods.

[Wasteland Watcher]

@Patrick Carlsonyou describe BS's worlds with such eloquence! And I agree on the depth and breadth. I just wish that the Commonwealth was designed in such a way as to be able to enjoy it without every single animal, and seemingly every other human (outside towns) trying to kill you: shooting first and asking...not at all!

At least in F3 there was the Animal Friend perk that "just worked" and in FNV we could use disguises to avoid combat with certain human groups if it was undesirable. And I really enjoyed being able to, in certain cases, negotiate peace between rival people or groups and then watching the outcome for better or worse.

It made the world feel alive.  Unfortunately, Todd got so caught up in focusing on adding good gunplay that F4 was developed with "aggressive negotiations" as the core method for completing objectives.  If I really wanted to go around just shooting stuff I'd be playing Quake or Doom.  I go to Fallout for RPGs with immersive worlds in first-person. But...not anymore apparently.

At least I still have FO3 for that immersion. And I admit, I use mods to flesh it out. But because of that it's one of the best, most immersive RPGs I've ever played

 

@Tbone555after my third or so F3 playthru I started reading a lot of stuff about PA on the Fallout wiki. It's actually very interesting

F3 has a special place in my heart, even though I had to mod it to "make it shine." 

I still occasionally play it on those rare occasions I play something other than The Long Dark

Now, at 280 days alive in Voyageur and with Timberwolf Mountain nearly completely explored, I still don't see any end in sight yet. And that's a good thing 

[Tbone555]

16 hours ago, Wasteland Watcher said:

 

 

@Tbone555after my third or so F3 playthru I started reading a lot of stuff about PA on the Fallout wiki. It's actually very interesting

F3 has a special place in my heart, even though I had to mod it to "make it shine." 

I still occasionally play it on those rare occasions I play something other than The Long Dark

Now, at 280 days alive in Voyageur and with Timberwolf Mountain nearly completely explored, I still don't see any end in sight yet. And that's a good thing 

man, i used to work at a gas station that NEVER got business. i just stood around all day long eating snacks and reading the Fallout Wiki allll day long. computer was too slow to do youtube, so the wiki was about all i had for entertainment then, along with writing fanfiction
so im surprised that theres still bits of lore i didnt know. i guess i still have some studying to do, haha!

[Wasteland Watcher]

@Tbone555The wiki is great. After I'd played Fallout 3 all the way through 20 times I thought I knew it all so read the wiki liberally. 

It turned out there was a LOT I didn't know so I stows reading and went back to playing FO3 looking for more. Found quite a bit too 

i wonder if that old computer at the gas station could have run the original Fallout?

 

 

[cekivi]

@Tbone555 + @Wasteland Watcher: I once got a bootable version of Fallout to run of a USB (I have the original disks). So, likely that old gas station computer could have run it

If you do play Fallout 1 though a lot of the lore is hidden on the computers of the

military base and the glow

. If you take some RadX (it worked differently prior to Fallout 3 you can spend a lot of time looking at the lore in dangerous, late game locations

[Wasteland Watcher]

@cekiviThe Glow  One of my favorite locations!

I always picked Science skill to access more computers. That and Lockpick. 

I remember getting addicted to Rad-X quite a few times. Weird

Getting an itch to replay original Fallout