Ever Noticed That Car Battery

[Rusty_Old_F250]

My impression so far is that, yes, the geomagnetic event did a lot of damage, but it was coincided by massive earthquakes, etc etc, and that is why the world is in such dire straits. The blocked highways with a car abandoned nearby seem to support this, if your trying to escape something, you wouldn't attempt to go down a highway you know is blocked, but if your path is suddenly blocked, you might try and continue on foot.

I would guess a lot of the more simple gear and equipment may still work just fine, there's just nothing to get it going at the moment. For example, when a car gets hit by lightning, it stands a good chance of frying the electronics, but things like the battery, starter motor, alternator, etc etc survive just fine.

Sam

[cekivi]

48 minutes ago, Rusty_Old_F250 said:

I would guess a lot of the more simple gear and equipment may still work just fine, there's just nothing to get it going at the moment. For example, when a car gets hit by lightning, it stands a good chance of frying the electronics, but things like the battery, starter motor, alternator, etc etc survive just fine.

It's amazing how everything these days is run by computers. For instance, post event an old model T would probably start just fine as would older carburetor vehicles. Not so much for anything computer controlled

[Rusty_Old_F250]

I'll bet it would, a model t has a magneto if I remember right, no battery needed. I've got a welder powered by a 4cyl continental and it uses a magneto for ignition. And it has the provisions for hand crank to start it.

Sam

[Dirmagnos]

Why would small things survive ? wth

Because they are small, em blast may have missed them ?!?!?! And light bulbs would be gone, along with everything else. Filament in those is extremely sensitive for power fluctuations, so they all would just go "pop" the moment it hit. Small things and complex electronics would actually be first to go, since they have fairly small resistance against power fluctuations. And emp is essentially a wave that floods circuitry with far greater current that its build to tolerate. Imagine plastic bottle 8), that can hold 1l of water, now try to force 10 liters in it...

Again, if blast wouldnt be strong enough, then military would be all over the place, or at least occasional chopper would fly by. Government needs to maintain control, and show everyone that things are ok, that its NOT the end of the world, kill or be killed. Its basics. Otherwise, if they show up a month later, locals(those who survived) may decide that they dont really need government after all(especially one that obviously cares only about their taxes) and flip them off. And most military equipment is hardened against em attacks. So if they didnt make it, then light bulbs didnt even stand a chance to survive Event.

[Dirmagnos]

11 hours ago, Rusty_Old_F250 said:

My impression so far is that, yes, the geomagnetic event did a lot of damage, but it was coincided by massive earthquakes, etc etc, and that is why the world is in such dire straits. The blocked highways with a car abandoned nearby seem to support this, if your trying to escape something, you wouldn't attempt to go down a highway you know is blocked, but if your path is suddenly blocked, you might try and continue on foot.

I would guess a lot of the more simple gear and equipment may still work just fine, there's just nothing to get it going at the moment. For example, when a car gets hit by lightning, it stands a good chance of frying the electronics, but things like the battery, starter motor, alternator, etc etc survive just fine.

Sam

Massive earthquake(s) would do a lot more damage. So far collapsed passages are merely used for marking dead ends(most likely for future map transitions) or already existing map exits. There is no other indications of any other seismic activity. If there would be then ice would be all messed up on shores.

Also there arent that many cars present, considering conditions and location. Which is also weird. Event would have knocked those off, yet you dont see any parked, so it seems that somekind of evacuation did took place, as most people and cars are gone.

And cars are build to withstand lighting hits, not to mention that lighting and emp are a rather different things.

[cekivi]

Just note though that the military never has had to come back from having zero civillian infrastructure (that isn't hardened) and the hardening is to prevent being wiped out by a nuclear EMP. A persistent EMP of similar magnitude caused by the aurora could still cause havoc. Also, don't forget that any military or government response will focus on population centers first. Not rural northern BC.

Also, we don't need to speculate about light bulbs. We know they survived. They're in the update trailer

[Dirmagnos]

6 hours ago, cekivi said:

Just note though that the military never has had to come back from having zero civillian infrastructure (that isn't hardened) and the hardening is to prevent being wiped out by a nuclear EMP. A persistent EMP of similar magnitude caused by the aurora could still cause havoc. Also, don't forget that any military or government response will focus on population centers first. Not rural northern BC.

Also, we don't need to speculate about light bulbs. We know they survived. They're in the update trailer

While long-term military presence in case of total collapse of civilian sector is out of the question(some1 has to grow crops after all, and similar stuff like that), they can last for years due to the fact that military has contingency for a contingency for a contingency... for another contingency in case of things going sideways. They are equipped, they are armed, they have warehouses of everything, starting with rations and ending with heavy machinery. Main problem would be lack of centralized command or clear objective.

Problem with "population centers first" is that they are fairly simple to secure, since every1 are crammed together in fairly small area. But those cities are also irrelevant in terms of long-term survival. Many of the professions, like lawyers for example, will be become completely obsolete or lose fair share of their value. At the same time people who actually produce something, will have their value increased tenfold. So military will need those rural regions far more than population centers, simply to feed those towns(and themselves), or provide warmth, or drinkable water, or pretty much anything needed for human survival. And for that they need to make an assessment of situation, damage control. They cant just roll out blind, nor they cant afford wasting time.

Problem with persistent emp is that i dont think its possible(il need to do some additional digging). But even if it would be, then if military is grounded and blinded, then yet again, there is no |censored| way that light bulbs would survive the Event. And even if by some miracle some managed to live thru initial event, then persistent emps would fry them anyway. Basically any em disturbance weak enough to spare light bulbs wouldnt wreck  a total havoc on human civilization. Its either one or another.

On a side note, auroras are product of em disturbance, not cause for it.

[cekivi]

I'm just saying at 1:53 into the April 4th update video there are lights and they are on

[TechNich]

I thank you guys that defended the idea of electricity in the game, i guess it's a controversial topic for the game. Both cekivi and dirmagnos make very good points about the topic, i thank both of you for participating so much in this topic. 

 

[cekivi]

You're quite welcome @TechNich

[BlueJack20]

The radios can be interacted with, but won't do anything. I always thought you might end up being able to use the batteries for that.
At the very least, it needs to be able to help start fire really quickly in case I'm out of matches.

[vancopower]

The only problem with power from car batteries is that they can only power things like: lights, radios, phones and other small devices. They can not power microwaves, heating system and devices that consume lot of power. It is possible to convert the  power to do so but not in TLD conditions, not because of the cold which actually helps but you need to make power transformer and hook it up to tons of car batteries. On the other hand it will be easy to hook up car battery to  radio or some portable light  you can even harvest the car lights and hook it up with the battery to make flashlight yea that would be awesome idea. the car light bulbs are very resistant, all you need is a copper wire which is long enough and you can hook up 4-5 light-bulbs thus making a flashlight. It will be big and not very practical but Hey it is the apocalypse after all anything will do right?    

 

Before anybody comments on this here is how I imagine it:

Cars have 4 light bulbs = 2 for short lights and 2 for long

1 car battery

So all you need now is a copper wire and  duct tape you can craft flashlight with:

4 light bulbs, 1 battery, 1 meter copper wire, and duct tape to stick them together.

[Dirmagnos]

Car light bulbs are very resistant ?!?!? To what ?

Car lights are low-voltage lamps, so they will burn out even be4 conventional light bulbs..

There is possibility for car electronics to have a better chance however. Altho it depends largely on car itself. Older cars have far less electronics on board and the generally well insulated to begin with. And car structure itself act like a makeshift faraday cage, allowing it certain resistance to emp, but again, newer cars have far more plastic and other parts that are not very conductive.

And since its a nation-wide disaster(maybe even world-wide), and even with military with its its hardened equipment apparently out of the picture, then conventional cars dont stand a chance(including electronics) to survive it.

Copper wire... battery... how about elementary school physics book for starters...

[Grimsley99]

I agree that newer cars have a lot less metal, but here's the thing. The cars you see in the environment, they look quite old. Earliest I'd say is the late 70s, latest I'd say is the late 90s. Also, watch the trailer for the recent and/or upcoming updates. Notice the computer and how old it is. Sign that The Long Dark is not set in the present day. I think that there is a real possibility that most electronics (especially cars) may have survived.

Another thing, do remember that the developers are going to allow TVs, radios, electronics and light bulbs to work during events like the Aurora Borealis. What's to say they aren't going to allow these same electronics to be powered by the Car Battery they so diligently placed into the environment for us to notice.

I'd say that there are going to be far more uses for the battery than just simply a flash light, although I am unsure on what limitations will be placed on the battery.

[Dirmagnos]

5 hours ago, Grimsley99 said:

I agree that newer cars have a lot less metal, but here's the thing. The cars you see in the environment, they look quite old. Earliest I'd say is the late 70s, latest I'd say is the late 90s. Also, watch the trailer for the recent and/or upcoming updates. Notice the computer and how old it is. Sign that The Long Dark is not set in the present day. I think that there is a real possibility that most electronics (especially cars) may have survived.

Another thing, do remember that the developers are going to allow TVs, radios, electronics and light bulbs to work during events like the Aurora Borealis. What's to say they aren't going to allow these same electronics to be powered by the Car Battery they so diligently placed into the environment for us to notice.

I'd say that there are going to be far more uses for the battery than just simply a flash light, although I am unsure on what limitations will be placed on the battery.

Keep in mind those cars are generic templates, since they all look the same, so there is no knowing what end-product will look like. Ive seen that computer as well, and neither one of those actually put game into any specific period. We are talking rural region after all.

Again, there is absolutely NO real possibility that any of those, be it radios of cars, would survive the event. Most people seem to fail to understand that we are dealing with force that is tens of thousands of times greater than what those electronics could withstand. Its not "maybe a bit more charge that usual", its a *cencored* ocean of excessive voltage, instantly. And to magnitude of Event speaks the fact that there is nothing left. If Event was weak enough to spare things like flash bulbs, then there would be some commotion, some breakers would need replacement, some transformers... but generally life would go on. But in this case it seems that even military is completely out of the picture and those guys actually prepare for such scenarios. And they have been viewing it as real threat, all militaries all over the world, since late 40s.

Im well aware of what devs are doing. So far im not sure if were talking static electricity or an actually working electronics. Latter would be literally absurd, since it woudl defy laws of conventional physics. I cant understand need to put gameplay first, realism later, but this would be pure "because i wannt it so" -type of feature that dont just bends rules, but simply discards them for no real purpose. Working electronics during auroras are even more absurd, since they indicate that em activity is higher and should actually disrupt instead of enhance.

[vancopower]

Some car lights might be burned up but others might be fine because they ware not turned on. Or the cars ware parked when the disaster hit. You can not overload electrical device when it is not turned on so it doesn't matter if the car has plastics or not in that case. However once burnt out light bulbs can't be repaired anymore. 

Here is another idea: harvest the car battery from the cars and get the bulbs from street lights connect with wire and duck tape it  of this I am most sure that it will work. When I was kid we used to go camping and hooked up common light bulbs on car batteries to have lights in the tends. 

I can't say what DEVs will introduce in to the story but if it is possible to have car batteries intact  making flashlights will not be good addition. Maybe if they are bright enough we could explore in the dark. I would prefer that rather than just passing time.

[Grimsley99]

On 4/26/2016 at 1:21 AM, Dirmagnos said:

Im well aware of what devs are doing. So far im not sure if were talking static electricity or an actually working electronics. Latter would be literally absurd, since it woudl defy laws of conventional physics. I cant understand need to put gameplay first, realism later, but this would be pure "because i wannt it so" -type of feature that dont just bends rules, but simply discards them for no real purpose. Working electronics during auroras are even more absurd, since they indicate that em activity is higher and should actually disrupt instead of enhance.

You also realise that Hinterland Games is fully aware that Wolves don't attack people and try to distance themselves from humanity as much as possible (unless certain conditions are met (eg Starvation)), yet they instead go for the kill. This is added for the game purely for gameplay purposes, nothing more.

 

[vancopower]

1 hour ago, Grimsley99 said:

You also realise that Hinterland Games is fully aware that Wolves don't attack people and try to distance themselves from humanity as much as possible (unless certain conditions are met (eg Starvation)), yet they instead go for the kill. This is added for the game purely for gameplay purposes, nothing more.

 

Yes all wildlife is scared of humans imagine how would you feel if some alien came close to you with some fancy tech and glowy things that you do not understand. However wolves are smart and they can stalk you and surprise attack you if they are starving. I agree with your comment this is a game not survival sim, the people should understand that.

[cekivi]

Hey All!

Reality versus game arguments aside do remember that this post is for discussing the utility of the car battery

 

[Dirmagnos]

On 4/26/2016 at 11:12 PM, vancopower said:

You can not overload electrical device when it is not turned on so it doesn't matter if the car has plastics or not in that case.

White connected and turned on electronics have higher chance of being burned out, depending on the charge, even if they are not connected it doesnt really matter due to share magnitude of the electric discharge of the Event.

 

16 hours ago, Grimsley99 said:

You also realise that Hinterland Games is fully aware that Wolves don't attack people and try to distance themselves from humanity as much as possible (unless certain conditions are met (eg Starvation)), yet they instead go for the kill. This is added for the game purely for gameplay purposes, nothing more.

Wolves dont attack humans under normal conditions, as you mentioned urself. But they can. Rabies can make animals extremely aggressive. Its not even a stretch of imagination, like making them fly for example. But introducing features that defy laws of conventional reality is a different thing... on par with flying wolves. Its something that simply dont happen.

14 hours ago, vancopower said:

I agree with your comment this is a game not survival sim, the people should understand that.

Its interesting that every time arguments like that come into play, its dismissed by using "its just a game". But it doesnt really invalidate those arguments to any degree.

[vancopower]

1 hour ago, Dirmagnos said:

White connected and turned on electronics have higher chance of being burned out, depending on the charge, even if they are not connected it doesnt really matter due to share magnitude of the electric discharge of the Event.

 

This is only true for the devices connected to the power grid and it is not because of the device but because of the power station suddenly producing high charge. On the other hand cars if not turned on will be fine that much I know. If there is no closed circuit what will make the damage electromagnetic waves no mater how strong are just that waves not electrons. What is the car battery when not turned on just acid some electrodes copper and zinc I think nothing electrical here. Every power circuit has a switch if not activated there is no power, except for the power grid which is always on. So that means phones, home appliances, PCs, all are toast car batteries will be fine  

[Dirmagnos]

2 hours ago, vancopower said:

This is only true for the devices connected to the power grid and it is not because of the device but because of the power station suddenly producing high charge. On the other hand cars if not turned on will be fine that much I know. If there is no closed circuit what will make the damage electromagnetic waves no mater how strong are just that waves not electrons. What is the car battery when not turned on just acid some electrodes copper and zinc I think nothing electrical here. Every power circuit has a switch if not activated there is no power, except for the power grid which is always on. So that means phones, home appliances, PCs, all are toast car batteries will be fine  

Now youre just being absurdly ridiculous.

Power station producing high charge ??!?! Do you know anything about emp ? At all ? Or how car ignition works ?

Probably trolling and im 2 stupid to get it.

[vancopower]

24 minutes ago, Dirmagnos said:

Now youre just being absurdly ridiculous.

Power station producing high charge ??!?! Do you know anything about emp ? At all ? Or how car ignition works ?

Probably trolling and im 2 stupid to get it.

As a matter of fact I do. I have 3 electrical engineers at home to back me on this and it happens all the time for example when thunder strikes it releases magnetic field which can burn the equipment at the power stations or should I say the central which is in fact 3 blocks away from my home and what they do in this case is emergency shut down and when they do it a massive charge instead of 220 volts the central releases 1.000 volts and burns everything from PC's to mobiles. Same thing will happen if you unplug the cord of some electrical device that consumes a lot of power like old heater it sparks right? this is on a much larger scale.

Car ignition is different kind of current if you want to know more about power and  the different types of current there is just google Nikola Tesla and read about it. And I do not believe that you are stupid those are your perceptions not mine and I am done explaining that this is not a private chat I will comment no more on this, farewell.  

[Scyzara]

Guys, unless you're able to keep this discussion on topic and civil, this thread is likely to be locked soon. Insulting each other is definitely not helpful to have a meaningful discussion about a topic as complex as EMPs.

Unfortunately, I have no idea if a CME (coronal mass ejection) - for this is likely the cause of TLD's geomagnetic storm and the strong aurora we're going to see in the future - can cause EMPs strong enough to damage devices which are not connected to power grid systems. I do know that other forms of EMPs (e.g. from nuclear explosions) can have this effect, but I'm not sure how powerful solar EMPs are in comparison.

[knightjoke]

in story mode