TattooedMac Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Yes it could, it could also be a flight path map that airplanes use too, but it was stated that it was "Old Map (of the area) note: some locations may be a bit outdated, but reasonable area representation" not a 2 week old highway map. So based on that my original point still stands. I don't know what they teach in the US Navy as survival goes, but in the Aust Army, the Map wouldn't be on the list of most important, as the first thing and most important is to survive the Elements .(ex Teacher of Survival in Aust Army) The thing with Maps is you need to know where you are first, for it to be of ANY value. . . . But this is why we are here, because everyone has their own opinion If i had the map, at least i would have something dry to light a fire with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdoar Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Agree MAC. As I said, a 50 year old road map would be useless. An aeronautical sectional would be valuable. But at the end of the day, you need to get through a cold night. A map won't help you there. The first S in our SERE courses was the most important. Survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrasher1016 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Agree MAC. As I said, a 50 year old road map would be useless. An aeronautical sectional would be valuable. But at the end of the day, you need to get through a cold night. A map won't help you there. The first S in our SERE courses was the most important. Survival. And if you can't "survive", the rest (evasion, resistance, escape) were of no use. Here in the game, the E and R aren't so important unless you encounter another human, and escape is only valuable if you want to get away from where you are for good. Thanks - T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwonder Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Don't you typically need a good compass to go along with a map? If you are going to try and travel to a specific location on a map, you will need to know which way to go (north north west, east south east, etc.). In the world of The Long Dark we are talking about a massive electromagnetic anomaly that would likely render your compass useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Reba Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Don't you typically need a good compass to go along with a map? If you are going to try and travel to a specific location on a map, you will need to know which way to go (north north west, east south east, etc.). There are many ways of telling direction. At daytime, you could use the sun and a watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwonder Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 @don_reba Ok. To play devils advocate: within the context of the video game, the electromagnetic rent would probably knock your watch out and you are in the northern wilderness where it often gets 20+ hours of daylight or lack there of depending on the season. How would you tell based on that scenario Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrasher1016 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Rub a steel needle on a piece of ferrous metal and magnetize it, lay it on a leaf, and float it in some water. Only one of several, I believe! Thanks - T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwonder Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Lol. again, within the context of the game, and the thought experiment, where do you get a needle from? or a leaf? this is the northern wilderness which is comprised of 99% pine trees. there are no leaves. Near the arctic circle it is dark most of the day during winter months; you may not be able to rely on the suns location in the sky. I'm trying to argue against the usefulness of a map within the context of the thought experiment set forth by BillTarling. You get to choose ONE item. @thrasher1016 your response is also indicative of there being a ferrous metal available to rub on. I understand the opportunity to find these things in the game which would make having a map useful in the long term, but I argue that you wont survive long enough to use it without selecting some of the other items presented by bill. Maybe i am being a little too hard on this topic and for that i apologize for taking the fun out of this lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrasher1016 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Oh no, I wouldn't take the map to save my life (verry punny)), and I never argued for it... my answer was the rope, for the reasons I gave in my original post in this thread. There's more than one way to skin a cat when it comes to the "makeshift compass" thing, and if this guy is a pilot and his plane was nearby, there's the *possibility* that the engine could be old enough to have some iron in it. If it were newer (like a modern Husky bush plane) then we're talking an aluminum block, etc, so no dice most likely. I see the usefulness in having a compass in general, even without the map to pair it with, but here's another thing........ If this guy is used to these routes and knows the territory at least from the air, why's he going to be confused about the cardinal points just because he's on the ground...? I mean even without a compass or even the normal aerial references that we can all see, I subconsciously keep track of the directions all day long, and that's just sitting still or working, or even when I'm just shopping in the store... I dunno, maybe I'm weird, but still, if this cat's used to the area, he doesn't need the map or compass to tell him that in *general*, SOUTH means more people, because people are pansies.... LOL Thanks - T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Tarling Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 It's interesting (and fun) to see how all the debates are growing from just being able to pick from a very minimal list of items. Just goes to show that we all have unique ways of thinking out scenarios, and approaching challenges differently ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdoar Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Just to throw a wrench into the compass ides: A night-time sky filled with highly active Aurora would be bright enough to navigate by without requiring additional light sources. It might also interfere with compasses, or hide the night-time stars to the degree that familiar constellations or navigation markers like the North Star are no longer visible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrasher1016 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Yeah, see that makes my supposition about this fella already knowing his flight paths, the terrain, and the area pretty well even more prevalent and crucial. And that makes perfect sense too, since we already have areas like this on earth, such as the Bermuda Triangle, etc. Thanks - T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rauder Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Near the arctic circle it is dark most of the day during winter months; you may not be able to rely on the suns location in the sky. There's a plenty of other ways to orient yourself even without the sun, such as finding Polaris at night. Lone trees tend to roughly have more and bushier branches on their southern side as well. Coming from a Finnish sissi (light infantry recon), I'm actually quite surprised how few people would take the shovel first, which would absolutely be my first choice. A good military-grade folding shovel can be used for so much more than just digging or moving snow around. In addition to using it for self-defense as already mentioned, you can also use one as a hatchet or even a crude knife depending on the type of the shovel. Since we are talking about surviving on a taiga, the single best natural resource for building shelters are spruce branches. Gathering those by hand takes a ton of both effort and time, whereas with the shovel you can just chop them right off the trees. A simple lean-to is rather easy to build with nothing but a lot of the branches for both cover and tying things in place, along with some slender tree trunks for structure. Both of these you can easily get with a proper shovel. Of course all of the above is moot if the shovel doesn't have suitable edges or is too flimsy. In that case, the rope would be my choice, closely followed by the map. Around 20 seconds is enough to look it over for if the area covered and the level of detail is going to be of any use. The rather popular tarp can be useful out in the cold, but at that size it's just not useful enough to trump the shovel when it comes to building a shelter. Unless you manage to find some rocks usable for tools (which, considering they're under all that snow isn't very likely) all you can really do with it is hang it on some tree. It's also worse than spruce branches for keeping you from losing warmth to the ground while sleeping. Maybe it kind of works as a poor and restrictive piece of clothing if you wrap it around you? The rest are either a complete waste (flashlight) or of too situational use. A toboggan is not ideal for moving stuff around without means to tie anything you're moving on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrasher1016 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 @Rauder - See, this is where I wish I'd had more REAL cold-weather experience... I mean I know all the benefits of the trees, their saps, and most of the animals and small edibles, but there's something to be said for hat hands-on approach that I didn't get, even living in CO, which at it's worst is just high mountains with blizzards. Thanks - T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExaPaw Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I would go for the tarp, because it's the most useful thing of all. Like the others already said, you can build a shelter with it, carry things or use it as a (kind of) sled to slide down snow dunes or pull heavy thing through the soft snow. Besides that you can wrap yourself in it if you don't have a winter jacket on. This would protect (well, at least more than nothing) of the cold winds and prevents a cooldown of your body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdoar Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Near the arctic circle it is dark most of the day during winter months; you may not be able to rely on the suns location in the sky... There's a plenty of other ways to orient yourself even without the sun, such as finding Polaris at night. Lone trees tend to roughly have more and bushier branches on their southern side as well. A night-time sky filled with highly active Aurora would be bright enough to navigate by without requiring additional light sources. It might also interfere with compasses, or hide the night-time stars to the degree that familiar constellations or navigation markers like the North Star are no longer visible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Tarling Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 Just a thought... Wouldn't it be hysterical if Hinterland watched and decided to throw that same list as the exact starting items to "pick one" from starting the game *lmao* Could change the way you start off replaying the game each time -- picking a different option to try on each new game could change things up just enough [at least when starting off each game]. Nawwwww... why would Hinterland be watching these threads *lol* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdoar Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I hope that Will Macenzie has the minimum required (by law) survival kit in his plane. By the sounds of the audio, he'll at least have some whiskey and cigarettes. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwonder Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 @robdoar whiskey would at least be useful for sterilizing wounds among other uses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logang Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Let's not forget, Will Macenzie doesn't always follow the law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_goodnow Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Rope. Can use it to lash together a rough toboggan and/or shelter. Use it travel tough terrain etc. etc. Just is a great multi-use item limited by your imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdoar Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Let's not forget, Will Macenzie doesn't always follow the law [bBvideo 560,340:tunvagel] [/bBvideo] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logang Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Let's not forget, Will Macenzie doesn't always follow the law The funny thing is, I was thinking about that quote when I posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meg_rector Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Lol. again, within the context of the game, and the thought experiment, where do you get a needle from? or a leaf? this is the northern wilderness which is comprised of 99% pine trees. there are no leaves. Near the arctic circle it is dark most of the day during winter months; you may not be able to rely on the suns location in the sky. I'm trying to argue against the usefulness of a map within the context of the thought experiment set forth by BillTarling. You get to choose ONE item. @thrasher1016 your response is also indicative of there being a ferrous metal available to rub on. I understand the opportunity to find these things in the game which would make having a map useful in the long term, but I argue that you wont survive long enough to use it without selecting some of the other items presented by bill. Maybe i am being a little too hard on this topic and for that i apologize for taking the fun out of this lol Does the old saw about moss only growing on the north side of a tree have any validity, and could it be used to good purpose here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwonder Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 I've heard of people actually using it but here in the Sierra Nevada mountains...totally not true lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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