Useful wishlist tools [poll]


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3 minutes ago, Dirmagnos said:

Yes, i went a bit 2 far with that "always" part. In majority of cases it still will be eventually "me vs them", even if initial contact was positive.

There is a reason why those mothers and "heroes" in general become widely known. They are extremely rare. Like one in a million rare. It requires an extraordinary force of will to do extraordinary things(or have your head extraordinarily scrambled). Most people simply dont have it(i know that i dont from personal experience). And in extreme situations its not hunger, not thirst, not cold that turns people into animals, its lack of hope, its situations where you not just havent eaten in a few days, but you have no idea when you will eat, if at all. There is no supermarket behind the corner, there is no 911 on speed-dial. And in situation like in LD, one suddenly realizes that hes not on the top of the food chain, quite far from it actually.

And about cannibalism just look up "facts about cannibalism" and "pigs in science/medicine".

A myth about cannibalism is being unhealthy is just that, a myth. Its a social invention with no actual factual basis. A conditioning, something along the lines of "do not kill". Sure, there are things like kuru, but as long as meat is properly prepared and stored, not to mentioning avoiding certain parts of body(why to hell would you eat brain to begin with), not to mentioning that this disease is restricted to a small part of the word, you should be just fine. At least no worse than from consuming any other type of meat. All the same rules apply - harvesting, preparation, storage, etc Eating human meat is purely ethically wrong, thats all.

And thing about digestion is basic biology. Since all humans have essentially same composition, then its easier for our digestive system to break it down and for our body to absorb those nutrients, less waste and work.

Btw, funny fact, cannibalism is actually legal in most countries.

Well... this got dark pretty damn quick...

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4 minutes ago, Dirmagnos said:

The more items that can be used for various tasks and materials that can be used in various crafting jobs, the better.

And there is absolutely no reason for compass to be unusable.

Dude, A magnetic compass needle tries to align itself with the magnetic field lines. However, at (and near) the magnetic poles, the fields of force are vertically converging on the region (the inclination (I) is near 90 degrees and the horizontal intensity (H) is weak). The strength and direction tend to "tilt" the compass needle up or down into the Earth. This causes the needle to "point" in the direction where the compass is tilted regardless of the compass direction, rendering the compass useless.
There are established zones around the north and south magnetic poles where compass behavior is deemed to be "erratic" and "unusable". These zones are defined where H (the horizontal intensity) is between 3000 nT - 6000 nT (erratic zone) and H is less than 3000 nT (unusable zone). Experts in the field claim that if you have a good compass and are careful, you can get decent results through the "erratic" zone. However, when H is small (H < 2000nT), the daily variation in D can easily be greater than 10 degrees. TheCanadian Geological Survey has excellent information on their web site concerning magnetism and the north magnetic pole.
However if you have a Dip needle 
 and it is well removed from local influences such as iron, magnetite and other ferromagnetic materials, a compass needle that is free to rotate in a vertical plane will point downward in the northern hemisphere at an angle from the horizontal along the line of the Earth's magnetic field. The instrument for measuring this angle is called an inclinometer, dip needle or, most frequently, dip circle 

 

therefore, the only usuable compass would need to be a dip needle, which looks like this btw4a997cbf69dcd4c7859f780d70d338e2.jpg.

Looks quite fitting for the game IMHO

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5 minutes ago, Docterrok said:

Dude, A magnetic compass needle tries to align itself with the magnetic field lines. However, at (and near) the magnetic poles, the fields of force are vertically converging on the region (the inclination (I) is near 90 degrees and the horizontal intensity (H) is weak). The strength and direction tend to "tilt" the compass needle up or down into the Earth. This causes the needle to "point" in the direction where the compass is tilted regardless of the compass direction, rendering the compass useless.
There are established zones around the north and south magnetic poles where compass behavior is deemed to be "erratic" and "unusable". These zones are defined where H (the horizontal intensity) is between 3000 nT - 6000 nT (erratic zone) and H is less than 3000 nT (unusable zone). Experts in the field claim that if you have a good compass and are careful, you can get decent results through the "erratic" zone. However, when H is small (H < 2000nT), the daily variation in D can easily be greater than 10 degrees. TheCanadian Geological Survey has excellent information on their web site concerning magnetism and the north magnetic pole.
However if you have a Dip needle 
 and it is well removed from local influences such as iron, magnetite and other ferromagnetic materials, a compass needle that is free to rotate in a vertical plane will point downward in the northern hemisphere at an angle from the horizontal along the line of the Earth's magnetic field. The instrument for measuring this angle is called an inclinometer, dip needle or, most frequently, dip circle 

 

therefore, the only usuable compass would need to be a dip needle, which looks like this btw4a997cbf69dcd4c7859f780d70d338e2.jpg.

Looks quite fitting for the game IMHO

That's pretty interesting! Know any good reading material on this? Preferably on Gutenberg project or something else that's free?

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Just now, Wastelander said:

That's pretty interesting! Know any good reading material on this? Preferably on Gutenberg project or something else that's free?

I was reading a scientific journal on it. Some crazy interesting stuff on it! Im reading your FanFic btw! damn son! Its good so far! you just gained a follower my friend! :)

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Just now, Docterrok said:

I was reading a scientific journal on it. Some crazy interesting stuff on it! Im reading your FanFic btw! damn son! Its good so far! you just gained a follower my friend! :)

Thanks buddy, so did you :D

Guess I'm gonna hit up my buddy in the physics department of my uni tomorrow, see if he has some more info, and, at best, some literature. If I recall correctly, he's currently doing particle physics but did some geophysics, so he should be a sort-of reliable source. The fact that he's almost my neighbour as well makes this even easier ;)

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On the topic of the bucket, this would be a wonderful tool - quickly gather unclean water (quicker than snow, maybe) or even gather salt water and boil it to get salt to cure meat! The latter has been done for a couple dozen centuries at least, although in larger dimensions.

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Just now, Docterrok said:

Portable containers would be amazing! but only if there mechanics weren't punishing. Having to lug it around would be fine, but it shouldn't be a handicap.

Personally, I'd give a small speed debuff for every container (possibly fastened to your belt by a rope) but make the items inside degrade faster due to bumping and stuff. Won't have much of an effect on firewood and quite frankly, that's what it should be used for.

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12 hours ago, Wastelander said:

Basically, animals should vocalize more - let us know that they're in pain. Let them have babies, let them [socialize] with each other when they don't notice us. Make us feel bad about killing them, but also make it a 'better you than me' moment.

Same with humans. We should have the option to kill and/or rob them, but they should seem human enough to make us feel bad [afterwards].

I had to think long about answering this. It should be in a separate thread.

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@Dirmagnos & @Wastelander  I think your views may be warped by the way history is written.  Is your city currently at war?  If not, how recently was war raging in your city?  A year ago?  Decades?  Centuries?  If your city isn't at war, how much will history say about your own peaceful slice of reality?  Nothing.  Not one word.  Because history doesn't talk about the norm, it talks only about exceptional events.

Of course there are wars.  But the larger part of human history has passed in peace and cooperation, even if the history books don't talk about it.  That's not "kumbaya," it's the reason we have 7+ billion people on the planet.

But let's bring this back to TLD.

The animals and fish here are exceptionally easy to hunt and butcher.  Why murder and eat the trading post guy, that same guy who's helping all the other survivors in the area?  Because it's too much bother to chip a hole in the ice, or because you enjoy murder and cannibalism?

Dunno if you've ever lived in someplace very remote and sparsely populated.  I have, when I worked in a remote part of Alaska.  Three dozen people spread in 1s, 2s or 3s (solo,  couples, families) over a pretty wide area, and 100 km from the closest tiny town.  Everybody knows everybody else in a situation like this and cooperates, barters.  Law enforcement is hundreds of km away.  

This is the type of setting I was talking about, and it's pretty similar to post-disaster TLD.  YOUR world view is that things in a situation like this would degenerate straight to murder and cannibalism, so you better everyone before they kill you.  That no one had knowledge worth preserving, so there's no impact on your own survival to murder them.  That no one would help you if you asked for help.  That you'd never be in a survival situation where cooperating with other people will boost your chances more than murdering them.

My world view is a bit different, and based on real life experience.  That folks living out here already have a pretty good idea how to feed themselves from fishing and hunting. That they have a ton of useful experience and practical knowledge about living in the bush.  That they are willing to put in the work to survive.  That they'd continue to cooperate and barter when they can.  

That they'd even help out a crashed bush pilot who wandered into their midst.  And if he turned out to be murdering paranoiac, that they'd put him down.

 

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Yep. Albeit it was a very limited disaster (a flood) but my neighbours didn't devolve into a horde of looters. Everyone would check to make sure no one's house was broken into as people came out from the city (nearly everyone had to evacuate) to check their property every so often.

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20 hours ago, Wastelander said:

On the topic of the bucket, this would be a wonderful tool - quickly gather unclean water (quicker than snow, maybe) or even gather salt water and boil it to get salt to cure meat! The latter has been done for a couple dozen centuries at least, although in larger dimensions.

Bucket would not not be the best tool for that, but with the lack of alternatives its better than nothing.

If we would ever get water containers implemented, bucket would be a good way to make water supply that dont require containers. Melt/boil snow, freeze it, knock it out of bucket and put resulting icicle of clean water on the shelf for later use. But that would require a lot of changes to water management system.

5 hours ago, Ruruwawa said:

@Dirmagnos & @Wastelander  I think your views may be warped by the way history is written.  Is your city currently at war?  If not, how recently was war raging in your city?  A year ago?  Decades?  Centuries?  If your city isn't at war, how much will history say about your own peaceful slice of reality?  Nothing.  Not one word.  Because history doesn't talk about the norm, it talks only about exceptional events.

Of course there are wars.  But the larger part of human history has passed in peace and cooperation, even if the history books don't talk about it.  That's not "kumbaya," it's the reason we have 7+ billion people on the planet.

But let's bring this back to TLD.

The animals and fish here are exceptionally easy to hunt and butcher.  Why murder and eat the trading post guy, that same guy who's helping all the other survivors in the area?  Because it's too much bother to chip a hole in the ice, or because you enjoy murder and cannibalism?

Dunno if you've ever lived in someplace very remote and sparsely populated.  I have, when I worked in a remote part of Alaska.  Three dozen people spread in 1s, 2s or 3s (solo,  couples, families) over a pretty wide area, and 100 km from the closest tiny town.  Everybody knows everybody else in a situation like this and cooperates, barters.  Law enforcement is hundreds of km away.  

This is the type of setting I was talking about, and it's pretty similar to post-disaster TLD.  YOUR world view is that things in a situation like this would degenerate straight to murder and cannibalism, so you better everyone before they kill you.  That no one had knowledge worth preserving, so there's no impact on your own survival to murder them.  That no one would help you if you asked for help.  That you'd never be in a survival situation where cooperating with other people will boost your chances more than murdering them.

My world view is a bit different, and based on real life experience.  That folks living out here already have a pretty good idea how to feed themselves from fishing and hunting. That they have a ton of useful experience and practical knowledge about living in the bush.  That they are willing to put in the work to survive.  That they'd continue to cooperate and barter when they can.  

That they'd even help out a crashed bush pilot who wandered into their midst.  And if he turned out to be murdering paranoiac, that they'd put him down.

 

Im sorry ? Warped ? In comparison to completely unrealistic blue-eyed view that every1 are brothers/sisters ? History at least has point of reference. What is exactly basis for claims that every1 will just band together and live happily ever after ? Not "warped" history apparently.

And for the larger part of its history humanity has been fighting something, mostly each other. Mostly it wasnt world wars, but thats mainly due to limitations of technology, not because every1 are so willing to live in piece. But in the last century alone we had 2 major wars and countless amount small ones, and this trend just keep on growing. Also humanity have grown to our current amount due to advances in technology and ease of reproduction. Main reason for which are... wars and conflicts. There is a reason why 1st world countries are struggling with population decline, while in Central Africa, with it never-ending civil wars, population only grows.

And yes, history talks mainly about exceptional events, and also history is being written by victors. So every1 knows about Holocaust, but only few know about its roots or the fact that after the war hundreds of thousands ethnic germans(civilians) died of starvation and diseases due to reallocation. There are plenty of movies about war crimes of Nazism, but none about those committed by Allies. Because its not convenient.

Hunting is easy because its a game. If it would be made even remotely realistic, then 90% of players wouldnt last past one week. And here we go again with this stupid "kumbaya" argument. How to hell do you know that this trading post trader is not a cannibal and thats how he keeps himself stocked. Or that he helps any1 at all ? Its not exactly that there is working radio around ,not 2 mention that even if radio would be working ,not every1 would have those or have skill to make it work. To pass around all that info. And after Event hit that trading guy, sitting essentially on pile of gold, as supplies that he has are now worth its weight in that particula metal, will simply pass them around ? Its again, same attitude taken from average generic rpg game(there is just a vendor, sitting there, whos purpose in life is to serve player by buying off him junk and to sell him rare supplies, since he himself apparently dont need them), rather than having any ties to reality. IT NEVER HAPPENS IN REALITY. In Middle Ages, even in peace times, traveling merchants who had anything of value, were traveling with hired guards. Nowadays we just have armored cars and alarms.

And you seriously will gonna bring out your experience in Alaska as example ? Purely based on similar weather conditions ? Where people has supplies, warm homes, cars, helicopters and most importantly, emergency service response if thing will go sideways. And they all also knew each other. Its the worse possible argument in this situation, since aside of relatively hard weather conditions they have like 0 in common.

Every natural disaster on record has always brought out the worse in people. Yes, there are those who try to go against that tide of madness, but they usually fail. Rioting, pillaging, murder and rape and commonplace in those situations. Often even among people who know each other - rage, anger, envy, jealousy, or simply lack of restrictions or repercussions(because they can get away with it).

Can people cooperate ? Yes, they do and they would benefit from it most likely. But fear and uncertainty will make a short work of any cooperation and test resolve of every1 involved. And there will always be some1 who will try to take advantage of situation. As they do in real world, now, even without local conflicts. Or do you expect all that scum suddenly become nice and productive. If humanity would be even remotely as nice as you would like to believe, then we would be colonizing stars, not sitting in the dirt fighting resource wars, while attempting to cover it all under a guise of justice and freedom(democracy, peace, whatever, pick your empty slogan and go with it).

And helping crashed bush pilot ? Lol. First of all how do they know that he is who he claims who he is ? And not a scout for some raider party composed of escaped convicts ? And why in heavens they would spend their limited resources on some nobody ? Without any knowledge what is going on in outside world ? They may know how to hunt and fish and even farm. But do they know how to mine and smelt and craft tools or ammunition or make gas ? Do they know how to produce electricity or make electric circuit board to replace burned out ones ? To make matches ? Antibiotics ? A million and one item that they cant no longer get from outside ? A million and one way of life that no longer work.

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Hi all. Please try to remember that a) this post supposed to be about tools (try and avoid topic drift) and b) once the topic devolves to human psychology in survival scenarios it often gets very heated very quickly. For the moment how about we all agree to disagree on how people behave under adverse conditions (you can find examples of both horrors and heroics) and return to the subject of useful tools?

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Folks, this thread has veered far off topic, as cekivi has pointed out more than once. When you ignore moderator reminders/requests, we just have to lock up threads like this--which would be a shame as there are a lot of interesting on-topic themes here to explore. 

For your other discussion, please continue it in a new or (relevant) existing thread. And keep it friendly! Thank you! :coffee:

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I've always wanted a compass so I could make better maps and travel in the fog. Also I've stood at a high point to scan my next destination and wished binoculars were in the game soooo many times. That would be something that would make sense to find at any of the towers. The gas syphon is a cool idea I haven't thought of before too.

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  • 4 months later...
  • 2 months later...
On 6/21/2016 at 1:25 PM, Wastelander said:
Quote

Btw, its a well known biological fact that eating other people is the most efficient way of replenishing own energy supplies. There is a reason why human meat is called "long pork". And there is a reason why pork in general is so popular and why swine organs are often used in transplants.

Can I get a source on this?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=long pork

https://buffalohair.wordpress.com/2010/10/09/101-ways-to-prepare-long-pork/

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheSecretOfLongPorkPies

On 6/21/2016 at 3:34 PM, Dirmagnos said:

Most people simply dont have it(i know that i dont from personal experience). And in extreme situations its not hunger, not thirst, not cold that turns people into animals, its lack of hope, its situations where you not just havent eaten in a few days, but you have no idea when you will eat, if at all. There is no supermarket behind the corner, there is no 911 on speed-dial. And in situation like in LD, one suddenly realizes that hes not on the top of the food chain, quite far from it actually.

And about cannibalism just look up "facts about cannibalism" and "pigs in science/medicine".

In the movie, The Edge, the hero makes the point that most people who are lost die of one thing: Not thinking. Not being flexible. Refusing to eat an obvious food source that was right there all along (worms, corpses, horseflesh,...)

Is there a poll for Cannibalism? I never made one because of my own distaste for the idea. I wonder if the idea would be rejected or not. Can The Long Dark really get that Dark? Why are we on this topic anyway; this is supposed to be about tools.

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