Character Strength - Exercise


peege

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This has been running through my mind.

If I carry more weight than is allowable, it makes sense to slow down, suffer extreme fatigue and tire.

However, if this is done regularly, it would make sense that the character would eventually build strength to support larger amounts of weight.

The modifier can go up slightly. for example,

if player carries 30lbs over the unencumbered weight for X distance n times in week, Then new threshold for weight is raised slightly.

Something like that. I have put no effort into thinking of the actual numbers.

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Exercise could be an activity that takes a certain amount of time / calories as well.

There could be other health benefits like increasing the player's SPRINT STAMINA from running the entire bar off at once, and doing that several times a day.

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I get where your coming from but:

When balanced with an optimum diet and muscle recovery times in theory yes, I imagine only a small percentage of strength gains though, I think it would have a bigger impact on endurance and cardio vascular recovery.

That's in an ideal world, in this one we are supposedly faced with extreme climates and a less than optimal diet and if they start serious tweaking of the numbers here then they'd have to do it elsewhere.

I'd rather see more story and newer zones to be immersed in than dev time spent enhancing realism with complicated algorithms and hidden mechanics.

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When balanced with an optimum diet and muscle recovery times in theory yes, I imagine only a small percentage of strength gains though, I think it would have a bigger impact on endurance and cardio vascular recovery.

That's in an ideal world, in this one we are supposedly faced with extreme climates and a less than optimal diet and if they start serious tweaking of the numbers here then they'd have to do it elsewhere.

+1

The lack of strength and endurance progression in game can be adequately explained by the suboptimal environment.

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This has been running through my mind.

If I carry more weight than is allowable, it makes sense to slow down, suffer extreme fatigue and tire.

However, if this is done regularly, it would make sense that the character would eventually build strength to support larger amounts of weight.

The modifier can go up slightly. for example,

if player carries 30lbs over the unencumbered weight for X distance n times in week, Then new threshold for weight is raised slightly.

Something like that. I have put no effort into thinking of the actual numbers.

You are basically right, but in my eyes this would not be a priority in game development. A lot of other things would be higher up on my list. And there is only so much the devs can do.

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I'm a software developer and consultant, and I agree that there is only so much devs can do.

This suggestion is just for the list. I wouldn't consider this to be anywhere near the top of the list, but I would include it to consider down the road.

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I feel like it would be slightly taking away the realism of the game and what makes it fun.

Let me explain... In real life exercising for 10 consecutive days will get you no progress so basically what you're saying is let us exercise to make our guy stronger. Fair play, if you exercise you burn additional calories and get tired but you won't see any effect until you survive for at least 30 days, by then you'll be able to carry 1kg more than before, add another 30 days for the next additional kg. I reckon you won't find it worth it then and will just ignore exercising so it's a lot of effort to program it in and little amount of people will use it.

Again if you make it 1 exercise will improve you strength it's just silly and will get boring real quick.

Due to the limited backpack space etc.. you need to plan your trips which makes it harder and so much more fun to try and survive.

Just an opinion and material for you to think about, thanks for reading :-)

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I feel you JACKHAMMERMC, and I already enjoy that. I'm just on day 320 and I've done everything else I want to do, and wish my dude was beefier. :D It's hard to believe in my imagination that with all that trekking up and down mountains carrying 100lbs, there would be no benefit.

I like how when I sharpen my knife, I get 1 skill point and after 5 there is a slight advantage in time, then after 10 there is a slight advantage in quality. In reality it only takes a few days to get 50 points even in that skill. I would want the endurance to take longer.

Something very small like that, so that over time, you would notice a significant difference and feel like a different person than when you started. Using the same mechanic. Instead of clicking a button to [DO ACTIVITY], it's triggered by the character going through an event under certain conditions. ie, walk distance encumbered with X lbs over limit.

Perhaps after 30 days, +1 lb Max every 14 days (if you push your limits), with a cap of +20. Something like that.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Generally, if someone is in good overall physical condition, and they train for a specific sport event, they spend a lot of time training AND they eat a very carefully balanced diet.

To start, you have to be in darn good shape to pack 29kg of supplies around. While your character could do a lot of hiking all day to represent a lot of time training, it is very unlikely he is eating a diet balanced to allow him to make any meaningful changes to his capabilities.

Further, even with a proper training regime and a good diet, we can see how much of an impact training has. Athletes improve in very small increments. For an athlete, say a runner, a hundredth of a second may make the difference between finishing in the middle or getting a medal. In TLD, your very good shape hiker carrying 30KG up and down the mountain for weeks, maybe even months, combined with a proper diet for his training at the end of it all will be able to carry 30.1 KG

Maybe TLD should do the opposite. Set 30 KG as the load a very good shape backpacker can carry, and start the character as able to carry 10KG without a problem, and an additional 10KG slow. Each week as long as you don't suffer any medical issue, your character is able to carry an additional 1 or 2 KG until the character maxes out at 30 KG

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Generally, if someone is in good overall physical condition, and they train for a specific sport event, they spend a lot of time training AND they eat a very carefully balanced diet.

Good thing that we are not preparing for a specific sporting event. So we dont really need "very carefully balanced diet". Athletes train and eat to achieve maximum possible(with diminishing returns in terms of effectiveness) in one extremely narrow field, plus stresses and temptations of everyday life also get to them. Not the case in LD.

To start, you have to be in darn good shape to pack 29kg of supplies around. While your character could do a lot of hiking all day to represent a lot of time training, it is very unlikely he is eating a diet balanced to allow him to make any meaningful changes to his capabilities.

Darn good shape for who ? A squirrel ? People carry that much from supermarket on a daily basis. Construction workers can carry twice that for 10-12 hours a day without much trouble. Dont even require one being a Schwarzengger.

Why they make 100+l backpacks if one need to be in "darn good shape" to carry even measly 30kg... including clothes that one is wearing?

And dont even start with all that crap about "balanced diet". People have been living for hundreds of years without knowing anything about diets or fitness. Growing muscles and lifting heavy stuff. Eat good food and move your ass, thats all diet and exercise one may need.

We get a lot of meat that is extremely high on proteins and thats the main building block for muscle growing. And with amount of "exercise" that protagonist gets every day in LD, hed be in top shape in 2-3 weeks.

Maybe TLD should do the opposite. Set 30 KG as the load a very good shape backpacker can carry, and start the character as able to carry 10KG without a problem, and an additional 10KG slow. Each week as long as you don't suffer any medical issue, your character is able to carry an additional 1 or 2 KG until the character maxes out at 30 KG

You must be joking ! When i go out clothes alone(and junk in the pockets) on me weight probably more than 10 kilos, and im pretty much on opposite side of being in "good physical condition".

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You must be joking ! When i go out clothes alone(and junk in the pockets) on me weight probably more than 10 kilos, and im pretty much on opposite side of being in "good physical condition".

lol! challenge accepted! :D

results may vary, but here's how it shakes down, with what I wore today (actually weighed on my kitchen scale).

hiking boots (Scarpa, US size 10) - 1.8 kg

jeans, warm socks + boxers - 0.85 kg

t-shirt + sweater - 0.77 kg

jacket (heavy wool hunting type) - 1.7 kg

scarf (fleece), toque + wool gloves- 0.36 kg

total - 5.48 kg.

It could be more if it was cold, to be fair. It was just around freezing today (so I didn't actually wear a scarf or gloves--but I inlcluded them in the weight for comparison) . If it was colder I'd wear a heavier hat and gloves, and add long underwear.

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" Growing muscles and lifting heavy stuff. Eat good food and move your ass, thats all diet and exercise one may need."

If they start having to factor in strength conditioning, they'll have to factor in DOMS and rest periods not to mention significantly increase the calorific intake, 2500 is nothing for an average adult in freezing conditions.

Arctic explorers consume sticks of pure butter to triple their daily fat intake!

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If they start having to factor in strength conditioning, they'll have to factor in DOMS and rest periods not to mention significantly increase the calorific intake, 2500 is nothing for an average adult in freezing conditions.

Arctic explorers consume sticks of pure butter to triple their daily fat intake!

This is true. In game, when you expend a lot of energy, you DO consume more calories.

I feel like I should clarify my original intent.

I was thinking of two ways to implement this.

1. Passive bonus that happens over time. Long periods of time.

AND / OR

2. An activity for the character to DO.

#1 is very do-able. #2 is do-able, but questionable. I don't have answers for how to make #2 perfect. I just am putting it out there for other people to toss around.

#1, however is easy. Miles are already tracked. If you add condition of Walking with 1.5x capacity or greater for [strengthBuilding miles], just let there be points where the player's max strength goes up in small increments.

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Generally, if someone is in good overall physical condition, and they train for a specific sport event, they spend a lot of time training AND they eat a very carefully balanced diet.

Good thing that we are not preparing for a specific sporting event. So we dont really need "very carefully balanced diet". Athletes train and eat to achieve maximum possible(with diminishing returns in terms of effectiveness) in one extremely narrow field, plus stresses and temptations of everyday life also get to them. Not the case in LD.

doesn't matter if you hang the term sport, hobby, or survival on it. You don't see much physical change in an in-shape person doing strenuous physical activity unless they invest a lot of time in it, have a lot of sleep, and have their dietary needs met.

To start, you have to be in darn good shape to pack 29kg of supplies around. While your character could do a lot of hiking all day to represent a lot of time training, it is very unlikely he is eating a diet balanced to allow him to make any meaningful changes to his capabilities.

Darn good shape for who ? A squirrel ? People carry that much from supermarket on a daily basis. Construction workers can carry twice that for 10-12 hours a day without much trouble. Dont even require one being a Schwarzengger.

Why they make 100+l backpacks if one need to be in "darn good shape" to carry even measly 30kg... including clothes that one is wearing?

And dont even start with all that crap about "balanced diet". People have been living for hundreds of years without knowing anything about diets or fitness. Growing muscles and lifting heavy stuff. Eat good food and move your ass, thats all diet and exercise one may need.

We get a lot of meat that is extremely high on proteins and thats the main building block for muscle growing. And with amount of "exercise" that protagonist gets every day in LD, hed be in top shape in 2-3 weeks.

30 KG = 66 lbs. Pack 60 lbs and not be stopped from running at your top speed? To walk at your normal speed? That's hell of good shape. The 'rule of thumb' for a person in good shape for backpacking is 1/4th your body weight. Some will cite 1/3. And any backpacker will tell you they can cover more miles with a light pack (20lb 3 day pack) vs a heavier pack (30 lb 7 day pack). Packing 66lbs...heck packing 40KG = 88lbs and moving at a walk for quite a distance, both of those factors ell me the protagonist is in very good shape.

As for what shape the protagonist would be in, if he wasn't getting a reasonable diet, no he wouldn't be in top shape in 2-3 weeks.

Honestly, with a his food needs met and a reasonably balanced diet, he'd be in just as good of shape as your average working class Canadian circa 1950 or so. And when you are in good shape, you aren't going to see any noticeable improvements in your performance. You've plateaued.

Maybe TLD should do the opposite. Set 30 KG as the load a very good shape backpacker can carry, and start the character as able to carry 10KG without a problem, and an additional 10KG slow. Each week as long as you don't suffer any medical issue, your character is able to carry an additional 1 or 2 KG until the character maxes out at 30 KG

You must be joking ! When i go out clothes alone(and junk in the pockets) on me weight probably more than 10 kilos, and im pretty much on opposite side of being in "good physical condition".

Okay, I'll back this one up. Honestly I was thinking of a novice hiker and I'd recommend they shoot for a 20 lb pack with reasonable expectations of how much they can travel per day. So I just quickly converted 20 lbs to 10KG, without remembering that TLD also factors in the weight of your clothing.

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If they start having to factor in strength conditioning, they'll have to factor in DOMS and rest periods not to mention significantly increase the calorific intake, 2500 is nothing for an average adult in freezing conditions.

Arctic explorers consume sticks of pure butter to triple their daily fat intake!

Doms is an issue for a week, maybe. We are talking about fit healthy human male to begin with and hes not exactly running 25-mile marathons nor lift weights.

Resting is also not an issue, in game player sleeps for 8-9 hours a day on average. Its more than enough to recover for a grown-up.

And there is no definitive evidence that operating in freezing conditions have any significant impact of amount of calories consumed. Maybe 5-10% more in settings of LD, altho it depends mainly on what person does. On the other hand, we get only ~5kg of meat from wolf...

Sure, slabs of butter. It would be also nice to note that they need it when they travel for 11-12 hours a day pulling heavy sled(that can weight over 200kg on its own)... often in blizzard. Sure then you may need double or even triple intake.

Considering calories, then yes, 2500 is a bit low, it should be adjusted per gender, so male intake should be around 3000-3500. But then again, males are also stronger and should be able to carry more.

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doesn't matter if you hang the term sport, hobby, or survival on it. You don't see much physical change in an in-shape person doing strenuous physical activity unless they invest a lot of time in it, have a lot of sleep, and have their dietary needs met.

Again, we are not talking about bodybuilding.

30 KG = 66 lbs. Pack 60 lbs and not be stopped from running at your top speed? To walk at your normal speed? That's hell of good shape. The 'rule of thumb' for a person in good shape for backpacking is 1/4th your body weight. Some will cite 1/3. And any backpacker will tell you they can cover more miles with a light pack (20lb 3 day pack) vs a heavier pack (30 lb 7 day pack). Packing 66lbs...heck packing 40KG = 88lbs and moving at a walk for quite a distance, both of those factors ell me the protagonist is in very good shape.

Define "top speed". Hes not exactly sprinting in game. And walking is hardly a problem when you get used to it.

1/4 of body weight is not a rule, or thumb or otherwise, its recommended for hiking. And protagonist is not on a hiking trip.

As for what shape the protagonist would be in, if he wasn't getting a reasonable diet, no he wouldn't be in top shape in 2-3 weeks.

Honestly, with a his food needs met and a reasonably balanced diet, he'd be in just as good of shape as your average working class Canadian circa 1950 or so. And when you are in good shape, you aren't going to see any noticeable improvements in your performance. You've plateaued.

Working class Canadian ? Who would like to spend an evening watching telly or hanging in bar/pub ? Seriously ?!?!

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I was also thinking about maybe yeah some way we get fitter to carry more weight but in this game that just would not happen.

Only other alternatives I can think of and been suggested before is transport of some sort to move weight. Be it Sleds, Foot wear/SKI, etc etc.

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