"Cheat" codes

[themole4]

Alpha players may be interested in testing the reproducibility of bugs, or all the possible scenarios in a given buggy situation (e.g., look here).

"Cheat" codes that instantly give tools and items, set or reset conditions (such as freezing, fatigued, injured etc...), teleport you on the map, spawn wildlife etc... would give players a lot of bug-testing chances (given permadeath, I was more than once curious of trying out things - like in the situation described in the link above - but I wasn't keen on ruining hours of gameplay just to test the game. And I'm not in the mood of backing up and restoring save files - never tried it, I assume it works but can't be sure. And if someone cares, just disable achievements as soon as a "cheat code" is used.).

Players abusing such codes would only be ruining their own enjoyment of the game. They're free to do that, as long as I am concerned.

[EternityTide]

Game is still in alpha. I'm certain that once they have ironed out the worst of the bugs, they'll implement a debug console similar to that of Skyrim. Right now anyone messing with in game scripts could ruin the whole game files.

[themole4]

Do you mean save game files? I was thinking that using a "cheat" (but more a "debug") code could immediately disable saving, so one could play around with the bug or glitch until he figured out what triggered it and what is affected by it, then quit and continue normally with his game.

But you're right, it could be worth to just wait for a full console to be implemented.

[EternityTide]

What I meant was that if you were playing around with scripts in the game, you might accidentally alter something that you shouldn't, and make the game unplayable, or worse still, crash your computer.

Until Hinterland has worked out how to reduce Sod's law to its lowest possible extent, there Isn't likely going to be a console.

[themole4]

Well, I wasn't thinking about full scripting capabilities, I meant something like the "id-something" codes in Doom. I dabbled (with very poor results) in external .wad design back then and they were very useful - no, essential, for testing. A simple "disable saving" code would encourage me to try and circumscribe the effects and mechanics of a bug/glitch without ruining my ongoing game, and I think it wouldn't endanger the installed files or crash my OS. That could improve players' bug reporting capabilities (very few are committed to bug reporting to the point of ruining an ongoing game by trying strange behaviours and sacrificing precious resources, I guess).

However you're probably right, waiting for a full-fledged console may be the best thing to do.

[Bill Tarling]

That could improve players' bug reporting capabilities (very few are committed to bug reporting to the point of ruining an ongoing game by trying strange behaviours and sacrificing precious resources, I guess).

Actually it would nullify reports, and make them much more difficult to track real bugs and tuning - the data would not be for player mode, so would be mostly unusable for debugging.

[themole4]

Mmh, my suggestion wasn't aimed at tuning, but at recreating circumstances that trigger bugs and evaluating their effects. In the link I provided in the OP, travelling from Mystery Lake to Coastal Highway with a flare in your hand would cause the flare to ignite after the transition. As electrix suggested, similar things would probably happen when other items were equipped, but, as long as I know, no player cared to try it out - as far as I was concerned, I was already annoyed that I wasted a flare due to the bug. If I had the chance to try things out without ruining my game or simply squandering resources, I would have freely experimented with the phenomenon and maybe collected some useful playtesting data.

But maybe this kind of inquiries about bugs behaviour is too much for regular users/players, and is best left to the devs?

[TattooedMac]

But maybe this kind of inquiries about bugs behaviour is too much for regular users/players, and is best left to the devs?

Agreed. If you find a bug and upload the output_log.txt or Player.Log for Mac OS X, then its really quite easy for the Devs to see where the bug is and fix it. This is why we have a Alpha Bug forum, to post in. If there are too many player playing around with a console/debug menu, then that is when data can get corrupted and confusing, with many different takes on a single bug.

As it stands right now, I think that the system works well enough, ( and being in a alpha, you should expect bugs, and not get annoyed that you wasted a flare on one). I see part of EA on Steam, you are essentially being a Alpha tester, and ready to report bugs when they happen.

Its why I can't understand why so many people over on the Steam Forums, getting so upset that they spent so much time on the Indoor Locations Achievement to find it doesn't work. They don't realise, its because of them trying to get the achievement that we could find the bug and get a fix, for the next update.

[themole4]

Yes, agreed.

I just wanted to explain better: I wasn't really annoyed by the flare bug, I realize what "alpha" means, I was just saying that I wasn't keen on risking my dwindling resources to test the bug more thoroughly, since every game of TLD takes hours of my free time.

[elloco999]

...since every game of TLD takes hours of my free time.

I think that's what games are meant to do

Just to make this clear upfront; I don't think codes should be added to TLD.

But... The OP has a point. After the november updates invalidated my old save, I wanted to check out the new wolf fights. So I tried fighting them unarmed first. That didn't go well as you can probably imagine So I went looking for a knife. Spend 30 minutes (RL) before I found one. Took me less than 2 minutes to find a wolf and... I was dead. Started another game, took me almost an hour (RL) to find a knife this time. And 3 minutes later... I was dead.

After the 3rd time, I though enough with the wolves, I'm going back to playing and will try my best to avoid the wolves. Later I learned about different clothes having different levels of protection. I wanted to try that out but didn't because I didn't want to spend a lot of time finding the clothes only to be killed in minutes after i found them.

In these situations a code to give you the item would have been very useful. If I could have used a code to get a knife to fight the wolves I would have fought them much more often than the 3 times I did now and would have gotten more data. And although codes might invalidate the results in some (most?) situations, the feedback I could have given would in no means be invalidated by how I got the knife, but it would have saved me a lot of time looking for it.

[themole4]

The kind of situation you described, elloco999, was exactly what I had in mind when I made this proposal.

[potbelly86]

Current situation actually gives developers good information about what bugs are the most common and affect most players. Also what bugs players actually notice, as there is no such thing as a bugfree game.

[Bill Tarling]

Current situation actually gives developers good information about what bugs are the most common and affect most players. Also what bugs players actually notice, as there is no such thing as a bugfree game.

I agree completely with potbelly 86.

It may help to understand that even the Scout Corps group of testers very rarely use any codes when testing or trying to replicate bugs because it could invalidate the data [i.e. could be changed code settings which causes or blocks an effect/bug]. When trying to replicate, it usually needs to be done under the same general settings, patterns, and method - it items are needed, the testers will usually track them down by playing first, and then testing the bug situation.

One example of why the "no code" option is critical in confirming the bug replication is because there have been individual spawn items [which only caused bugs when taken from certain locations] - simply generating 'test inventory' doesn't solve or necessarily even reproduce the bug criteria, so the reports would give false readings.

The bugs often need to be reproduced using the same game data settings as used by the players if possible.

For the devs, they can access needed adjustments, but with the coordinates and output debug log files, they're extremely fast in tracking down most bugs reported. With that info, along with the steps that first appeared to have cause the bug, they're usually able to directly check the code where it needs corrections or adjustments.

[snegec]

I cheat by not taking risks.

I go out once a day and carry a whole train of medical supplies with me. If I get attacked, I wound a wolf and then retreat into my house to heal for 2 days, then find the said dead wolf and strip it for meat. Yum yum.

[themole4]

That's not cheating. That's being sensible.

[brostoevsky]

I would really love being able to use some sort of debug mode for flying or teleporting, PURELY to aid in the convenience of finding and mapping locations, etc for the TLD resource database I'm building (which is currently a rather tedious process). There is already a trainer available that allows you to do these things but I'm not really willing to use a DLL hack.

Being able to spawn items would also be nice as I'm trying to get the properties and take screenshots of every single item in-game and most of them are found in very dark places and/or are large enough that some of the text overlays the item image when you pick it up.

[Amazombie]

I'm all for a debug menu, or cheats , whatever you may call it. Yes, we all know the arguments against it, but the point of games its to be fun, and that can mean different things to different people.

I for one would use to even out some things that I personally think make sense, for example, I may forage for my first sewing kit, but once i've caught a fish, to me its a viable that if I have cloth at least I should be able to repair my clothes, so to just cheat in a sewing kit to me makes sense. Now thats just a half cocked example but I think my point is, I'm for it to be used for whatever purpose, I could care less about recreating bugs hahaha sorry its true.

Maybe I had a bad game, got killed and now i wanna go all rambo on fluffy?

[iSUGGESTthings]

I want a command that displays your current bunker coordinates. Plox. ._.

[sir ice]

you can't dangle a piece of hamburger in front of an american, tell them it is unhealthy, and expect them to not eat it anyway. the exact same thing applies to your topic. If there are cheat codes, I would eventually, use them in a bad way. i'd cheat. Its simple human instinct, just because you lack the extreme urge to cheat doesn't mean that others lack it too. I, myself, can't get offended. but you don't see me screaming insults at people. I can't name how many games I have played where i use cheats, and stop. then I regret it, A LOT. -1

sry man.

[sir ice]

That could improve players' bug reporting capabilities (very few are committed to bug reporting to the point of ruining an ongoing game by trying strange behaviours and sacrificing precious resources, I guess).

Actually it would nullify reports, and make them much more difficult to track real bugs and tuning - the data would not be for player mode, so would be mostly unusable for debugging.

very well said.

[sir ice]

...since every game of TLD takes hours of my free time.

I think that's what games are meant to do

Just to make this clear upfront; I don't think codes should be added to TLD.

But... The OP has a point. After the november updates invalidated my old save, I wanted to check out the new wolf fights. So I tried fighting them unarmed first. That didn't go well as you can probably imagine So I went looking for a knife. Spend 30 minutes (RL) before I found one. Took me less than 2 minutes to find a wolf and... I was dead. Started another game, took me almost an hour (RL) to find a knife this time. And 3 minutes later... I was dead.

After the 3rd time, I though enough with the wolves, I'm going back to playing and will try my best to avoid the wolves. Later I learned about different clothes having different levels of protection. I wanted to try that out but didn't because I didn't want to spend a lot of time finding the clothes only to be killed in minutes after i found them.

In these situations a code to give you the item would have been very useful. If I could have used a code to get a knife to fight the wolves I would have fought them much more often than the 3 times I did now and would have gotten more data. And although codes might invalidate the results in some (most?) situations, the feedback I could have given would in no means be invalidated by how I got the knife, but it would have saved me a lot of time looking for it.

if you learn everything using the cheats right after the update, you'll get bored. figuring out the updates over time is better.

[Amazombie]

if you learn everything using the cheats right after the update, you'll get bored. figuring out the updates over time is better.

But see... thats why I feel options are best. You may get bored that way and thats fine, then you can choose not to use them, but for those of us that wouldnt it doesnt hurt.

Its just a difference of opinion. The option would satisfy both sides.

[bethany]

Posts referring to third party software utilized to hack or exploit game code have been removed. Discussion of specific programs or steps to accomplish hacking or cheating is a violation of community guidelines.

Full list of guidelines here:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4210

[FINDarkside]

I don't think that anyone was talking about a specific program.

I don't know to much about these trainers, I know there out there and won't go away any time soon or even ever. However talking about there existence is fine, linking people and showing people where they can find them on the forums is not.

[octavian]

Sure, but it just so happened that its name was exactly that, I think this is why they did it.