Loonsloon

My Sleepwalker Run

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I'm taking another shot at The Long Dark's survival mode, this time on 'Sleepwalker' settings.  Here is BareSkin's post on Sleepwalker:

http://www.hinterlandforums.com/forums/topic/21402-bareskins-are-sleepwalking/

This run I've set it to what used to be Sleepwalker Level 4 ("Alpine Hunter") according to BareSkin's old scheme but I think the Sleepwalker definitions have changed recently.  Basically I'm running Interloper settings with rest-condition recovery set to none and day condition recovery set to low.   

The game code I'm using is:

8sHM-bj8P-Kxun-g6GO-7gAA

Wish me luck - should be good (and hungry) times:

 

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8sHM-bj8P-Kxun-g6GO-7gAA  That's exactly it, the updated codes are here for the last build:

All considered, I think Alpine Hunter is actually more difficult than I thought, cause it has both big threats at maximum (cold and hunger), I'd consider it to be the level 6 now (downgrading level 5 and 6 one rank). But it has simplicity, being the most interloper-ish sleepwalking mode (same needs depletion rates). I confirm the 0.25%/h recovery, just did the maths on Bareskin31. But that's the maximum ideal value, when you sleep long stretches (yes, it matters).

I never carry smellies. Like, really never. the guts cure where they are. Except of course for hunting alignment purposes.

I wasn't the first to propose shutting off sleeping recovery, Deadman did that before but it didn't seem realistic either not to be able to heal at all and having to hunt stims. The philosophies tho, are much different. Deadman ended up being masochist to the maximum, while sleepwalker is all about removing the starvation hack.

Thanks a lot for recording your run, it has a special flavor for me to this people actually play this mode :D and I do't regret taking the time explaining it. I'm really enjoying it.

Comments on the run:

- Contrary to popular belief, the tuke goes "inside", the head slot has reversed inner/outer layer compared to other slots, go figure why...

- The flare you didn't see at Poacher's train is guaranteed, it's what makes this place a nice first destination. You could have stopped hyporisk in the train, and wait for better temperatures, make water while harvesting nearby stalks.

-When you're low on cooking skill, you can sleep 1h AND get water boiled.

-Even on Interloper you often find good loot at Spence, I'm not surprised with the parka and boots. The mackinaw exists on regular Loper, it's actually a guaranteed spawn in HRV. You seem quite lucky tho , I did a few sleepwalkers believe me, and never had that many coats on day1...

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@BareSkin thanks for the feedback.  Glad you enjoyed the video.  Hopefully I survive for a bit in order to see how the longer game plays out.  I'm going to try to get past day 30 at least to see how it fares in the cold weather; I think the cold damage is going to be really punishing. 

Thanks for the tips.  The thing that is so surprising for me re: smellies is that zero smell is not necessarily zero smell; that fractional smell matters, but unfortunately you can't tell from the interface.  I'm starting to wonder about cured guts...  Also, I will try to remember to switch the toque position.  I knew that but it's so counterintuitive that I frequently get it wrong.  Hinterland could really do us a favour and fix that, which has to be like a single line of code..

Anyway, really loving Sleepwalker so far.  I think this is how it was meant to be played.  I don't think Hinterland wanted us to run around all the time with an empty food bar.  The food bar was meant to be filled.  They should also take this more seriously in their revision cycle.  For example, they should have a difficulty setting beyond loper that has low condition recovery.

Interested to see how it goes with the very high cold damage and calorie intake.  Re: calorie intake I have nerfed it with the efficient machine perk.  I feel a bit bad about that now; I probably should have just taken my usual free running and snow walker perks as they don't oppose difficulty settings as directly as efficient machine and cold fusion do.  For next run I might try that.  I might also consider changing the food intake to high.  On other hand, presuming that Hinterland intended us to keep our food meter full and not to abuse the rest mechanic, perhaps the game is configured such that loper with condition recovery nerfed is just possible...

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2 hours ago, Loonsloon said:

Anyway, really loving Sleepwalker so far.  I think this is how it was meant to be played.

Are you flirting with me? :D For whatever reason, Hinterland wanted us to sleep long stretches, this is the Original Sin: they invented the sleep-healing curve, then on top of that added Rest as a Resource to prevent Hibernation, then on top of that all added Well Fed to encourage people have a full stomach. But I don't think Interlopists see it as a good trade, eating 10 times more for +5kg... Fun fact, a sleepwalker still wants to sleep long stretches, because of the code mechanics of awake healing counting only full hours spent awake. I'm quite proud Sleepwalker mode also solves the issue of stupidly running to build enough Fatigue (the more you sleep, the less you heal).

The thing in this challenge is basically in two phases: You have roughly 40-50 days to become a "real" survivor: crafted tools+ clothes. In very late cold weather a Forge trip could be very deadly. Basically I ended up giving myself Day 20 as a limit for the Bow, Day50 for at least rabbit+deer crafts+ 1 wolf jacket. After that, until Day100 (end of winter), it's finding calories in very cold weather and absent wildlife, and of course, cabin fever kicking in...

The two perks you've taken are allowed in the challenge, just like in Interloper. I take the same. Tried Fire Master, but changed very quickly to Cold Fusion after an HRV start.

Yes, scent indicator is not reliable at all. It's been said in a mailbag by Raphael: any piece of meat gives you Scent. I think the indicator is 33-66-100%. You know nothing (Jon Snow) between 0 and 33%. I never noticed any problem while transporting Cured gut, raw pelts, or cured pelts. My take is: if you can stack a lot of an item without triggering 1 scent bar, it just doesn't smell at all.

About setting calorie intake to High, I did enjoy playing the sleepwalker 7 settings. It seemed really balanced (more realistic) compared to SW4, in which I ended up eating a full deer in 2 days... Put it simply, if I worked at Hinterland and had to make a post-Interloper, that'd be SW7.

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On 3/13/2019 at 9:04 AM, BareSkin said:

About setting calorie intake to High, I did enjoy playing the sleepwalker 7 settings. It seemed really balanced (more realistic) compared to SW4, in which I ended up eating a full deer in 2 days... Put it simply, if I worked at Hinterland and had to make a post-Interloper, that'd be SW7.

Having survived for a few weeks now in SW4, I am seeing the point that food consumption is a bit high.  You can eat 3-4 rabbits in a day.  Seems a bit much.  I will likely go back to High for food on my next playthrough, but then I might switch efficient machine for a running feat.  Not sure if that will end up essentially being the same experience as food very high with efficient machine..  I'm fine with water being at very high, because water is abundant and on SW it doesn't seem to matter if you do 9 consecutive hours or 7.  But the one I'm hung up on for SW7 is the energy at very high.  I wonder how that plays - I just don't want to be exhausted by mid day.  Right now on loper settings (or SW4) it is at medium, and I find that to be a fairly reasonable energy level - e.g. you are spent by the end of the day.  I suppose there are some late nights that might be unrealistic, so maybe i do 'high'.  But I wonder if very high would make the days unrealistically short.  @BareSkin what's your feel on setting energy to very high?

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On 3/23/2019 at 7:37 PM, Loonsloon said:

But the one I'm hung up on for SW7 is the energy at very high.  I wonder how that plays

If by energy you mean "Fatigue/Rest", yes, the SW7 mode actually forces you to play a more laid-back strategic game, especially for timing about curing guts. Since you get exhausted quite quickly, you move slower, and also you hate running, since you get punished twice (had to stop sooner, have to sleep more).

Playing this mode I ended up also choosing my paths better, you don't wait to climb hills if you don't need to.

The main thing you'll change in your gameplay is running. You just don't, so I'm not sure the running feats will be of any importance.

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Interesting.  I think i'm more interested in a 'harsh realism' than 'punishment' game.  I also don't want to eliminate running because I feel like that was a developer intended axis of the game, what with the feats and all. I kinda wish the devs had implemented a warmth effect of movement and sprinting, as in real life; when you stop walking you get really cold, and moving again warms you up again.  This is so plainly true in real life that I don't know how it escaped implementation here.  It would also give some extra incentive to run - your calories and energy would be converted to some temperature. 

But I really think the Sleepwalker recovery nerf is essential to prevent abuse of condition to avoid needs.  Sleepwalker will be the new norm for me going forward, but probably with food high and water very high, fatigue medium, and cold very high.  I don't think this is a setting on your scale, but close to SKeleton I guess.

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17 hours ago, Loonsloon said:

I kinda wish the devs had implemented a warmth effect of movement and sprinting, as in real life; when you stop walking you get really cold, and moving again warms you up again.

100% with you on that, that would fit so well with the game design already in place! I was actually surprised to get warmth from light but not from moving.

17 hours ago, Loonsloon said:

But I really think the Sleepwalker recovery nerf is essential to prevent abuse of condition to avoid needs.  Sleepwalker will be the new norm for me going forward, but probably with food high and water very high, fatigue medium, and cold very high.  I don't think this is a setting on your scale, but close to SKeleton I guess.

That's it, it's Skeleton but 1 notch down on Fatigue, which is not nothing given the sleepwalking gameplay consequences. Fatigue is the big threat only second to cold. I guess that would make it a sleepwalker 5.5 :D Tell me the name you want on the diploma once you reach  day 100 ;) !

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On 3/13/2019 at 2:04 PM, BareSkin said:

I think the indicator is 33-66-100%. You know nothing (Jon Snow) between 0 and 33%

I feel it's more tied to a certain amount of "stink". I don't think there is a hard cap. But definitely every scrap of meat and gut (unless cured) gives you some level of scent, even if not displayed. Not eating up (without realizing and subsequently keeping the meat in inventory) got me killed more than once.

On 3/24/2019 at 12:37 AM, Loonsloon said:

You can eat 3-4 rabbits in a day.  Seems a bit much.

I always though the same until I actually did the research. This effect is actually legit and is even called "rabbit starvation".

In general (as I stated in one of our discussions before @BareSkin) I prefer a setting that forces me to act (very high calorie intake) but at the same time also allows me to act (medium fatigue). It's one of my general theories of gameplay (which is certainly debateable) that action always should be rewarded above inaction. If the players find themselves in a situation where the best choice is not to act more often than not that's a good indicator the game is doing something wrong - which is basically what's wrong about hibernation in a nutshell. That's also why I guess my true SW calling will always be the Interloperesque Alpine Hunter. It's challenging but it doesn't ground you as often. Actually a pretty good indicator that Interloper itself would be pretty damn well balanced .... if it only didn't have sleep recovery.

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2 hours ago, jeffpeng said:

Actually a pretty good indicator that Interloper itself would be pretty damn well balanced .... if it only didn't have sleep recovery.

You nailed it. Just flat recovery rate. I still don't get why they wanted us to sleep long stretches, which is the Original Sin for most of game mechanics imbalance. Maybe I should ask in a Mailbag.

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On 4/8/2019 at 6:57 PM, BareSkin said:

You nailed it. Just flat recovery rate. I still don't get why they wanted us to sleep long stretches, which is the Original Sin for most of game mechanics imbalance. Maybe I should ask in a Mailbag.

I'm recovering from a wolf attack that cost about 70% condition.  It should take about 20-30 days to recover that.  This seems a little bit much - I might experiment with a medium daytime rate and no night time recovery.  While night time recovery makes more intuitive sense, it incentivizes hibernation as you say.

@jeffpengI thought that the rabbit starvation phenomenon is that you get almost no fat from wild rabbits because they are constantly on the edge of starvation.  You eventually get protein poisoning; basically you can't eat only rabbits.  I think the fishing would balance it out though as fish are pretty fatty.  There's also the issue of scurvy, which is from a lack of Vitamin C I think - just eating steaks for 300 days might give you scurvy?  I think the reishis might be good solution for that.  Maybe they've already considered these as ailments in the game... 

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On 4/10/2019 at 10:43 PM, Loonsloon said:

@jeffpengI thought that the rabbit starvation phenomenon is that you get almost no fat from wild rabbits because they are constantly on the edge of starvation.  You eventually get protein poisoning; basically you can't eat only rabbits.  I think the fishing would balance it out though as fish are pretty fatty.  There's also the issue of scurvy, which is from a lack of Vitamin C I think - just eating steaks for 300 days might give you scurvy?  I think the reishis might be good solution for that.  Maybe they've already considered these as ailments in the game... 

What I wanted to highlight by this is that the low calorie value per kilogram of rabbits is most likely a result of the devs trying to account for this fact.

On 4/10/2019 at 10:43 PM, Loonsloon said:

I'm recovering from a wolf attack that cost about 70% condition.  It should take about 20-30 days to recover that.  This seems a little bit much - I might experiment with a medium daytime rate and no night time recovery.  While night time recovery makes more intuitive sense, it incentivizes hibernation as you say.

I would expect to take 3-4 weeks to recover from a massive trauma (70%). But everyone their own.

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