Dev Diary - March 2019

[Mroz4k]

4 hours ago, Carbon said:

 Finally, if you think Episode 3 is coming for free, I suspect that you'll be further disappointed. I expect HL to start thinking about not being a charity anymore; we've all gotten our more than money's worth between Ep. 1 & 2 and all of the survival mode content we've received and I for one will be happy to pay more for future content.

Even though this is the kind of business decision I would expect and even endorse, Im afraid it is not that way. As a matter of fact, when you buy the game, the price includes all the episodes from 1 to 5. This is just another example of how efficiently must Hinterland run for them to be able to prosper on the base cost of the game alone, along with some premium merch for sale, of course. But the store on Steam underlines this fact quite distinctly - the game includes all 5 episodes of Story mode in its price, and the players will be able to play these other episodes for free with the basic game as soon as these episodes come out.

Even though I would encourage the idea of having other episodes be paid for, doing so now, after it was explicitly stated that they will be free, is no longer possible. Trying to make them paid for now would ruin Hinterland reputation. 
 

Besides, it would not be very kosher - as this would directly damage those that wish to play the story mode above the Sandbox - the Sandbox players could enjoy the game for basic price, the story mode players would have to pay extra to get the experience they wanted. 

That said, I have a very nice idea that Hinterland could use if they were interested - a way to get a little bit more monetary support out of it. The basic idea would be that upon completion of the new story mode episode, fans would be given a choice to give a little tip to the developers if they enjoyed playing it, in a form of some small, tokenish donation. Which would be completely voluntary.

[Guest kristaok]

7 hours ago, Carbon said:

Finally, if you think Episode 3 is coming for free, I suspect that you'll be further disappointed. I expect HL to start thinking about not being a charity anymore; we've all gotten our more than money's worth between Ep. 1 & 2 and all of the survival mode content we've received and I for one will be happy to pay more for future content.

TLD is currently an amazing, one-of-a-kind game and more than worth the money, even if there were no more episodes to come.

I believe Episode 1-5 are included in the original purchase price, but I do believe any future Episodes / Seasons / whatever will not be included, we will probably have to pay for those which I would gladly do.  The amount I paid for TLD was totally worth it, even if the game never even had a Story Mode, if it only had Survival I would still say it was well worth it. 

[earthy]

12 hours ago, Carbon said:

 

 When you bought the game, did you see any long-term timeline announcements? Were you deceived in this somehow?

Yes, I was. I wasn't feeling philanthropic, looking to support some developers dream. I was browsing steam for a game to play, and The Long Dark was right there on the front page. I skimmed through the page, purchased it, and only after finishing episode 2 did I realize it wasn't even a full game. Looking back at the steam page, the fact that the game isn't complete isn't even mentioned unless you hit "Read more" and fully expand the page. I suppose i'm still stuck in the past, where people advertising a story driven game actually give you a full story in a reasonable timeframe. Honestly it just leaves a bitter taste in my mouth, similar to GRRM and the Winds of Winter. Will he finish the series and release the books before he dies? Probably not. Will Hinterland fulfill their commitment to my purchase before the graphics on this game are 10-15 years out of date and I have zero desire to play it anymore? Also probably not, but one can hope.

[Guest kristaok]

@earthy I am sorry, I mean no disrespect... but I just don't see how you were deceived? You bought the game knowing full too well it was an episodic game, and even if Hinterland had released all 5 Episodes, that still does not mean the game would be finished. There could be a lot more episodes / seasons / whatever to come, I have to kindly suggest you just be patient. 

As for the graphics ever being aged, you're in luck... usually cartoony or artistic graphics don't age as bad / ugly as realistic graphics, that is a proven fact. So I have absolutely 0 worries of this game aging bad, heck even if it did age bad to some people standards that wouldn't bother me personally because I still play old OLD games. 

Episode 3 will more than likely be out this year, so you shouldn't have to wait long. I have mentioned this many times it seems now... but I will again; I would much rather Hinterland takes their time (however long that takes) to make something amazing, than for them to rush something out and it be a buggy awful mess. As an avid gamer, I have played quite a few games and I have seen what happens when devs rush stuff, it never turns out pretty. Sadly this is exactly what's happening to one of my favorite game franchise (The Sims), the first 3 were amazing, this 4th one just seems rushed and half baked. Moral of the story, patience is a virtue. Yes it can be frustrating and hard to be patient especially with an amazing game like TLD, but all you can do is WAIT. No amount of whining will change things, so my best advice other than to be patient is to play Survival some more. 

Lastly the game is only like $30, that's really not a lot considering the price of games now, so it's not like you are really losing much... You could easily spend that at Chick fil a for food that once eaten it's gone, whereas with this game it's FOREVER yours! 

Oh I should add; If you can't wait, and you are not the patient type... then my other advice is to avoid buying episodic games from now on, because again that's just how those types of games work. You just never know when the Episodes will be released, it could take weeks, months, and sometimes years. 

To be honest I do want to see the other Episodes I won't lie, but even if I don't see them for awhile I am fine playing Survival, because Survival is where it's at! 

EDIT: Forgot to mention; The other Episodes aren't released yet too because Hinterland had to make the tough decision to take all of their hard - earned cash and go back to better the first two Episodes. They could have literally left it the way it was and rushed out Episode 3, but I am glad they didn't. The Redux in my humble opinion truly changed things for the better! and I do know that because I played the Episodes before they were changed, and I love the changes a whole lot better now! So that's why you are having to wait for Episode 3 and so on. 

I can't name one company that has ever taken their earnings and went back to better their product for their fans, even The Sims has never ever done that! So I absolutely applaud Hinterland, and I know in my heart that they will be payed back tremendously for that and they deserve it! ❤️ 

So you should be grateful for that... I know I am. 

Edited April 11, 2019 by kristaok

[Carbon]

14 hours ago, earthy said:

Yes, I was. I wasn't feeling philanthropic, looking to support some developers dream. I was browsing steam for a game to play, and The Long Dark was right there on the front page. I skimmed through the page, purchased it, and only after finishing episode 2 did I realize it wasn't even a full game. Looking back at the steam page, the fact that the game isn't complete isn't even mentioned unless you hit "Read more" and fully expand the page. I suppose i'm still stuck in the past, where people advertising a story driven game actually give you a full story in a reasonable timeframe. Honestly it just leaves a bitter taste in my mouth, similar to GRRM and the Winds of Winter. Will he finish the series and release the books before he dies? Probably not. Will Hinterland fulfill their commitment to my purchase before the graphics on this game are 10-15 years out of date and I have zero desire to play it anymore? Also probably not, but one can hope.

Here's the store page I see, where it clearly says that the episodes will be released when finished. Too bad you didn't take the time to click "read more" in the "about this game" section.

 

[Guest kristaok]

Waiting is to be expected for any Episodic type game, it kind of comes with the territory...  It is what, it is... all we can do now is wait. 

I have full faith in Hinterland that they can and will deliver, just look at what good they did for the Redux. 

No sense in complaining especially in this thread where the first post says Episode 3 is coming, they are working hard on it, and they are going to be adding more things. 

So yea instead of complaining, it's time to be excited! I know I am! I can't wait to get my hands on that Revolver! yeeehaw!

[Mroz4k]

23 hours ago, earthy said:

I skimmed through the page, purchased it, and only after finishing episode 2 did I realize it wasn't even a full game.

Not to sound sarcastic or devious, but is it the fault of the studio, or your own, that you skimmed through the page, bought it, without taking the time to read through it carefully? If you signed a legal contract without reading it first, you would bound by its content, whether you read it or not as well. And buying something is in a way a legal contract, too. 
The game is full as of right now. It was out of beta for a long time now. What is not complete is the episodic "campaign". Considering the game was out in alpha for over three years before the first two episodes came out, you can't really judge the readiness of the game based on the status of Story mode alone. While it is a substantial part of the game now, it is only a part of the game.

The game is full, it is finished (although a game like this never really is finished till its replaced, as this is a flagship product of Hinterland, they will keep adding more and more content as long as people keep playing and buying it). The fact that you bought the game, expecting full story mode when only 2 episodes were out is no one's fault but your own. 

23 hours ago, earthy said:

Will Hinterland fulfill their commitment to my purchase before the graphics on this game are 10-15 years out of date and I have zero desire to play it anymore? Also probably not, but one can hope

Since the release of that video, actually, the graphics have changed a bit once more, (I think, at least). So you really neednt worry there. 
In fact, had to get a better machine when the update came up. Dont doubt these graphics in the game as archaic. They are that way on purpose - gives the game its unique feeling, too. 

I know if you want to complain, you can always find a reason why, and I will admit that this game or studio has avenues where it could be improved a bit. Nothing is perfect. That said, Hinterland has done a stellar job so far, and I have faith they will do so in the future as well. And I for one dont mind waiting, even years, if the result in the end is worth the wait.

Edited April 11, 2019 by Mroz4k

[earthy]

7 hours ago, Carbon said:

Here's the store page I see, where it clearly says that the episodes will be released when finished. Too bad you didn't take the time to click "read more" in the "about this game" section.

 

You're right, I should have read that. That would have saved me some grief in the short term, but it still wouldn't change where we are now. If I had seen that and still purchased the game, I would be in the same scenario I am now, waiting endlessly for an episode that keeps being delayed. The best analogy I can give you is imagine you order a 5 course meal for your wedding. An hour into the reception, the first 2 courses of appetizers are brought out. While you found them tolerable, some people thought they were too salty. Instead of writing it off and moving on to the entree's, the cooks decide they want to redeem themselves, and so they announce that they will be remaking appetizers for everyone. In the meantime, they update the salad bar a few times. After 2 more hours, they bring out new appetizers for everyone. They're better than before to be sure, but it's now 3 hours into the reception, and no one wants to wait around any longer for their entree's or desert. You could argue "the cook's never guaranteed a delivery time for each meal. it's their choice to take their time and put out a product they're proud of", which might technically be true, but the guests still feel cheated at this point. They've paid for a 5 course meal, and after waiting for a more than reasonable amount of time they've only been served appetizers, Redux appetizers, and some salad bar updates that they didn't even care about.

[Guest kristaok]

@earthy Your comparison don't apply to this though, because TLD is an Episodic game... it's not like ordering an appetizer for a wedding reception where you're guaranteed to receive the food for the wedding. Episodic games don't work like that. 

Like I said previously with these types of games you're never promised a full on deadline. The Episodes could take weeks, months, or even years. That's just simply how it is. 

Im sorry you somehow feel cheated, the game is literally only $30 bucks now and that's cheap compared to most other games. 

Also the Story Mode doesn't make up the whole game, id go out on a limb and wager that the fan favorite as of currently IS the Survival Mode. 

Either way Episode 3 IS coming, BE PATIENT. 

Yes I get that you wanted Episode 3 faster, and you may not like how Hinterland chose to do the Redux... but they did, and I'm glad they did. 

Heck even if your comparison were true, I never was one for rushing anyone or complaining to anyone over food... I wouldn't want to risk more than too salty / burnt / or whatever food if you catch my drift. 

Again, no amount of moping around will change that Hinterland has decided to take their time and do Episode 3 right. After all after the Redux and updates to the code or whatever the devs do now these days, they more than likely had to rewrite / redo a lot of Episode 3 to better fit Episode 1 & 2. 

So yea I don't see how you were duped, you willingly purchased the game knowing full too well that it was an Episodic game. Maybe avoid buying these types of games if waiting isn't your strong suit? 

@Mroz4k I remember the 2016 version hehe, it's changed a lot since then hasn't it!?

Edited April 11, 2019 by kristaok

[Mroz4k]

42 minutes ago, kristaok said:

I remember the 2016 version hehe, it's changed a lot since then hasn't it!? 

Indeed it has, even more so since 2014  Gone are the days when my entire world comprised of Mystery lake, when rifle could be fixed with scrap metal and fir firewood, when I would forage for wood inside the shack by the lake under Trappers cabin for 8 hours every day, butt naked to conserve the condition of my clothes... or when deer hunting using flares was the only way to survive past day 50  

This is why the content within the game far exceeds my expectations, even if it comes out fairly slowly over the years. And also probably why we understand this while most of the newer players may not... because we have seen the game way back then and can compare to what it is now  

[Guest kristaok]

3 minutes ago, Mroz4k said:

Indeed it has, even more so since 2014  Gone are the days when my entire world comprised of Mystery lake, when rifle could be fixed with scrap metal and fir firewood, when I would forage for wood inside the shack by the lake under Trappers cabin for 8 hours every day, butt naked to conserve the condition of my clothes... or when deer hunting using flares was the only way to survive past day 50  

This is why the content within the game far exceeds my expectations, even if it comes out fairly slowly over the years. And also probably why we understand this while most of the newer players may not... because we have seen the game way back then and can compare to what it is now  

It truly has gotten a WHOLE lot better! I can't wait to see what the future has in store!

[NardoLoopa]

2 hours ago, kristaok said:

It truly has gotten a WHOLE lot better! I can't wait to see what the future has in store!

The development trajectory of TLD is a testament to good iterative development.  You can see the rough-out of many concepts we have today.  Even the assets look similar, just not finished.  But the idea is already there.

It really does amaze me that they didn't stop much earlier on and just say, "meh, good enough."

Hinterland, thanks for polishing the stone; it's so pretty.

[Guest kristaok]

@Hawk I only played it around 2016, so I never played it when it first came out... it's crazy to see just how far TLD has come, and it sure has come a LONG way!  -- Thanks for the video! 

EDIT: 

@NardoLoopa Yea, they could have stopped perfecting it long ago and just rushed the Episodes out, but they didn't... and for that I thank them from the bottom of my heart ❤️ ... Thanks Hinterland! 

Edited April 11, 2019 by kristaok

[TheUnknown]

Ok i know you dont want to give oh this will be out on this day time of eta but is there anychance you can tell us if you are like 60% done with the stuff. that wont be an eta or anything and will prob settle most people down knowing how far along you are with the update.

[Guest kristaok]

@TheUnknown I doubt they will even tell us that because of what happened surrounding missing deadlines etc. I guess it will either be out later this year or early next year. So 2020 at the latest, but I am not a part of the dev team so this is just a rough guess. 

Either way when it does arrive I can guarantee it's going to be AWESOME! I can't wait to play the game through the eyes of Astrid. 

Edited April 12, 2019 by kristaok

[TheUnknown]

@kristaok Ya i know. Im just hyper for the update. like you i also cant wait.  cant wait to see how our choices pan out later in the game. What we did at the farm how that choice will come back to bite us or not. If we stocked up grey mother or not and finding out she lives because of it or dies because we didnt fill up her food or wood. i am just gitty about it all. even more so to see this astrid chapter. The wait is making me pull out what little hair i have left on my head.

[Guest kristaok]

@TheUnknown Yea exactly I want to know what consequences I will be facing for that particular situation lol. 

[Guest kristaok]

@Hawk With this sort of path, the next couple of years will be amazing! It just keeps getting better and better!

[Carbon]

17 hours ago, earthy said:

You're right, I should have read that. That would have saved me some grief in the short term, but it still wouldn't change where we are now. If I had seen that and still purchased the game, I would be in the same scenario I am now, waiting endlessly for an episode that keeps being delayed. The best analogy I can give you is imagine you order a 5 course meal for your wedding. An hour into the reception, the first 2 courses of appetizers are brought out. While you found them tolerable, some people thought they were too salty. Instead of writing it off and moving on to the entree's, the cooks decide they want to redeem themselves, and so they announce that they will be remaking appetizers for everyone. In the meantime, they update the salad bar a few times. After 2 more hours, they bring out new appetizers for everyone. They're better than before to be sure, but it's now 3 hours into the reception, and no one wants to wait around any longer for their entree's or desert. You could argue "the cook's never guaranteed a delivery time for each meal. it's their choice to take their time and put out a product they're proud of", which might technically be true, but the guests still feel cheated at this point. They've paid for a 5 course meal, and after waiting for a more than reasonable amount of time they've only been served appetizers, Redux appetizers, and some salad bar updates that they didn't even care about.

 I'll just leave the analogy on the plate.

 Look, feel how you want to feel. Nobody can change your mind, especially when you insist on and would likely continue to move the goalposts. It's true that the episodes take a long time to come, there's no arguing about that. However, there is no reason to keep beating that drum or tell people they are silly for being both willing to wait and satisfied with the game (especially when they tell you they don't care much for story mode anyhow). You've made yourself clear, so what else can a user forum do for you?

 Can you find no pleasure in the survival mode at all? There are some excellent challenges from the community that are every bit as compelling as story mode and far more difficult, if that's what you enjoy. "Deadman" challenge is particularly interesting, so maybe you could look into that.

 Anyhow, I'm not interested in further making this forum a battleground and neither are the mods, so we should both reel it in while we can. For what it's worth, my mistake in thinking that the next episodes will require more money was also answered in my own screenshot, so it seems neither of us are paying close enough attention.

 Peace.

[Tri13]

On 3/6/2019 at 3:13 PM, atomic said:

I hope it's not Will on the first pic

Looking forward to EP3 & any survival mode updates! Cheers!

Good news its not will but it is astrid

[Sundance]

*Spoiler*

So I have a question. I am really sorry if this has been answered already but I have spent the past half hour searching various forums for a straight answer, and am getting frustrated.

    When you’re in the Carter Hydro Dam and get to the exit video where you encounter an unnamed inmate, is that the last thing to date that has been developed or is there a way to get out of the damn and in to chapter or episode 3? I know this may sound stupid or annoying to any who know if it has been answered and I am sorry if this is an out of bounds question, but I’m going around in circles. (The last thing I remember is being hit in the head.)

 

btw great game. Love the mechanics. 

Edited April 20, 2019 by Sundance
Forgot something

[Mroz4k]

44 minutes ago, Sundance said:

*Spoiler*

So I have a question. I am really sorry if this has been answered already but I have spent the past half hour searching various forums for a straight answer, and am getting frustrated.

    When you’re in the Carter Hydro Dam and get to the exit video where you encounter an unnamed inmate, is that the last thing to date that has been developed or is there a way to get out of the damn and in to chapter or episode 3? I know this may sound stupid or annoying to any who know if it has been answered and I am sorry if this is an out of bounds question, but I’m going around in circles. (The last thing I remember is being hit in the head.)

 

btw great game. Love the mechanics. 

Hi. Next time, for more answers you would probably fair better if you either made a post in the section dubbed Wintermute (since this is a question about the Story mode of the game), or try the Milton Mailbag, which is a section of forums where you can ask a question and hopefully get the answer from the Creative director himself.

But since this is a simple enough question I can happily answer you myself

Sorry to dissapoint you, but what you described is the end of the Chapter 2 of the Story mode, and Chapter 3 is not yet out. And by the looks of it, it wont be out for a while yet - because the next two updates for the game will focus on the Sandbox Survival. And these updates usually take around 3 months.

So the Story mode Chapter 3 is probably still pretty far into the future. 

However, as you are familiar with the Story mode, I also want to inform you that in the next chapter of the story, the episode 3, you will no longer play as Will Mackenzie, but as Astrid, the female doctor protagonist that Will is looking for. The Episode 3 should also take place in the region called Pleasant Valley for the most part. Astrid will also not use the rifle like Will, but a bow.

The Episode 3 was supposed to be out by now, but due to bad reviews of the first two Episodes, Hinterland made a recent update Redux, where they reworked the first two episodes of the game to be more interesting and more action packed, without the need to go through the lenghty, plain tasks like it was in the past.

Actually, depending on when you played the Story mode, you might wanna re-play the first two episodes again. If you played them in the past, and remember hunting a bear with a rifle, then you played the old version of the story mode... and in that case, you should definitedly play the first two episodes again.

If you used a "different" weapon to fight the Bear in episode two, that was the new version of the Story.

 

Hope this answer was detailed enough. Sorry to dissapoint that there is no Episode 3 yet. But be patient, it will come. Till then, Id very much reccomend playing sandbox survival... it is, in my opinion, far more rewarding experience, and I can say that after playing the game for 5 years, now.

[Sundance]

3 hours ago, Mroz4k said:

Hi. Next time, for more answers you would probably fair better if you either made a post in the section dubbed Wintermute (since this is a question about the Story mode of the game), or try the Milton Mailbag, which is a section of forums where you can ask a question and hopefully get the answer from the Creative director himself.

But since this is a simple enough question I can happily answer you myself

Sorry to dissapoint you, but what you described is the end of the Chapter 2 of the Story mode, and Chapter 3 is not yet out. And by the looks of it, it wont be out for a while yet - because the next two updates for the game will focus on the Sandbox Survival. And these updates usually take around 3 months.

So the Story mode Chapter 3 is probably still pretty far into the future. 

However, as you are familiar with the Story mode, I also want to inform you that in the next chapter of the story, the episode 3, you will no longer play as Will Mackenzie, but as Astrid, the female doctor protagonist that Will is looking for. The Episode 3 should also take place in the region called Pleasant Valley for the most part. Astrid will also not use the rifle like Will, but a bow.

The Episode 3 was supposed to be out by now, but due to bad reviews of the first two Episodes, Hinterland made a recent update Redux, where they reworked the first two episodes of the game to be more interesting and more action packed, without the need to go through the lenghty, plain tasks like it was in the past.

Actually, depending on when you played the Story mode, you might wanna re-play the first two episodes again. If you played them in the past, and remember hunting a bear with a rifle, then you played the old version of the story mode... and in that case, you should definitedly play the first two episodes again.

If you used a "different" weapon to fight the Bear in episode two, that was the new version of the Story.

 

Hope this answer was detailed enough. Sorry to dissapoint that there is no Episode 3 yet. But be patient, it will come. Till then, Id very much reccomend playing sandbox survival... it is, in my opinion, far more rewarding experience, and I can say that after playing the game for 5 years, now.

Thanks for the response and guidance. While I can operate a smart phone and Xbox I’m completely useless when it comes to forums. 

    No I love the game and just thought that they were further ahead with the devoloping of episodes. But that’s fine. I like the wait and just today started out on sandbox survival mode! This game is epic and the dev’s deserve the recognition for that. All good things got that way through work and rework of weaker points and from what I’ve seen, the rest of this story is going to be killer!! Thanks for the heads up! I thought I was going crazy!

Edited April 20, 2019 by Sundance
Stupid typo. Don’t wanna look like a noob

[Mroz4k]

1 minute ago, Sundance said:

Thanks for the response and guidance. While I can operate a smart phone and Xbox I’m completely useless when it comes to forums. 

    No I love the game and just thought that they were further ahead with the devoloping of episodes. But that’s fine. I like the wait and just today started out on sandbox survival mode! This game is epic and the dev’s deserve the recognition for that. All good things got that way through work and rework of weaker points and from what I’ve seen, imthe rest of this story is going to be killer!! Thanks for the heads up! I thought I was going crazy!

No problem, happy to help. If you happen to have any more questions, you can message me via a private message any time - and I will reply, usually quite fast, lately Ive been spending a lot of time on the forums  

Good luck in your Sandbox adventures - after getting the training from the story modes, Im sure you wont have much trouble, taking it on!  Just watch out for bears & Moose, they can be quite dangerous!  Just about 30 minutes ago I climbed a wall of rose hip bushes in the Hushed Valley River, and there was a bear, some 5 meters in front of me... I backed and fell down the hole again, just in time as he was charging me... I love this game as well, every day in it is an adventure. 

And if you ever feel like you are getting tired of it, try to read through the forums a bit, too - might be that there is a tip or a trick you did not know about that will help you enjoy it once again. (in fact, my tip would be - dont try to hoard everything. Always gather up just enough of what you need - hunt up food only for a few days, then go picking wood, etc - if you collect too much of everything, you will get bored and have nothing to do... but if you always collect just enough things, then you will always have something to do!  And dont forget to enjoy the game... it is not always about surviving... nobody forbids you from just going for a walk, find some beautiful vista and just watch & marvel at how beautiful the sunset is. 

Good luck!

[ogreranger]

16 hours ago, Sundance said:

Thanks for the response and guidance. While I can operate a smart phone and Xbox I’m completely useless when it comes to forums.

I now know that i am not alone.☺️