Randomized loot tables

[muoz]

I think randomized loot tables would bring more fun to the game (and more death)

[UpUpAway95]

Aren't a certain percentage of containers totally random right now?  I just lost a days worth of progress due to a save function error and, upon redoing what I did yesterday, I'm not getting the same loot from many of the containers.  A few items, like my very low=condition rifle, were in the same location as yesterday; but that isn't helping me much since the two rifle cleaning kits I gathered yesterday have apparently turned into prybars this time around.

[muoz]

1 hour ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Aren't a certain percentage of containers totally random right now?  I just lost a days worth of progress due to a save function error and, upon redoing what I did yesterday, I'm not getting the same loot from many of the containers.  A few items, like my very low=condition rifle, were in the same location as yesterday; but that isn't helping me much since the two rifle cleaning kits I gathered yesterday have apparently turned into prybars this time around.

Containers are randomized but there are certain objects that have secured appearance depending on pre-fixed loot tables. For example if you find X item in location A then it's 100% sure you will find object Y in location B, etc.

Check out this:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11n0wfRQadaWay4feLbunF9dxIbS2hZ3O_I57x5JfF6s/edit#gid=1146953510

[UpUpAway95]

1 hour ago, muoz said:

Containers are randomized but there are certain objects that have secured appearance depending on pre-fixed loot tables. For example if you find X item in location A then it's 100% sure you will find object Y in location B, etc.

Check out this:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11n0wfRQadaWay4feLbunF9dxIbS2hZ3O_I57x5JfF6s/edit#gid=1146953510

I realize that.  That's why my rifle was in the same place twice when I had to replay that section of my save.  On lower difficulties, a higher percentage of the loot is random because more of the containers contain loot.  On Interloper, that incidental spawn rate is much lower (many more of the containers are empty), so there is a lower percentage of "random" loot.  If, however, they eliminated all the set loot in the game, you could conceivably play on a lower difficulty... and wind up not finding a single rifle or hatchet, etc.  I think a better solution may be to add more different fixed loot tables.  Interloper currently has 4 different ones that have been identified.  Perhaps that should be expanded to 8 or 10; making it more difficult for Lopers to determine which loot table their save is running without risking that a random percentage of saves would lose out completely on some major loot that the player excepts (edit s/b: expects) should be in the game somewhere.

[muoz]

1 hour ago, UpUpAway95 said:

I realize that.  That's why my rifle was in the same place twice when I had to replay that section of my save.  On lower difficulties, a higher percentage of the loot is random because more of the containers contain loot.  On Interloper, that incidental spawn rate is much lower (many more of the containers are empty), so there is a lower percentage of "random" loot.  If, however, they eliminated all the set loot in the game, you could conceivably play on a lower difficulty... and wind up not finding a single rifle or hatchet, etc.  I think a better solution may be to add more different fixed loot tables.  Interloper currently has 4 different ones that have been identified.  Perhaps that should be expanded to 8 or 10; making it more difficult for Lopers to determine which loot table their save is running without risking that a random percentage of saves would lose out completely on some major loot that the player excepts (edit s/b: expects) should be in the game somewhere.

I agree that your idea is better than nothing but at the end doesn't matter if you have 4 tables or 8 tables, people will figure out the tables and you will have the same problem. I think is as simple as keeping the same set of objects as it is now but rotate their spawn randomly in the world.

[UpUpAway95]

20 hours ago, muoz said:

I agree that your idea is better than nothing but at the end doesn't matter if you have 4 tables or 8 tables, people will figure out the tables and you will have the same problem. I think is as simple as keeping the same set of objects as it is now but rotate their spawn randomly in the world.

I disagree.  With enough loot tables in play, a player finding one key item in a certain location would not be able to decide yet which loot table they are on.  They then have a chance of guessing they're on the wrong table and planning a strategy that takes them away from their desired next item rather than towards it.  Let's say there are enough different loot tables around that if you find a storm lantern in Desolation Point, it means your bedroll could be in any of the remaining zones.  You have the assurance that a bedroll exists in the game (unlike straight random loot), but you have no idea which zone it's in.  Even with only 8 possible locations for that second item, it leaves a strong chance that you'll head to the wrong location first and it guarantees that the item won't spawn in an easy location.   For example, right now in Loper, if you spawn in Desolation Point, you know you will never find the Heavy Hammer in that zone.  If they leave it all entirely random, it could spawn right at your feet.   There is already a lot of RNG involved in getting a Loper run going, but at least some skill is needed to get to key items regardless of whether or not you know what loot table you're on.

[muoz]

Agree, well explained! 

[NardoLoopa]

Perhaps a better strategy would to implement a "Pick from the Bag" randomization.  There are a set number of critical items in the world.  Every world has X hammers, Y hacksaws, Z bedrolls, etc.  When allocating loot to the maps, just pick from the bag that contains all of those items (some locations have a sub-set of possible items).  Proceed until the bag is empty and all items are allocated.

The good thing about this is that there are always guaranteed items.  However, there is no loot-table to follow.  The downside is that some maps will be easier than others: Spawn in CW and find hacksaw, bedroll, hammer, 2xPots, etc) all  on the same map.  This would make an easy interloper game, compared to a game where you spawn HRV and all essential items are found in DP.  Maybe implement a max-critical items per map policy to prevent this.

You could even pre-generate all the possibilities of above and call them "loot tables".  There would just be a _lot_ of them -- to the point where figuring out which one you were on would basically involve finding all the critical loot.

[muoz]

5 hours ago, NardoLoopa said:

Perhaps a better strategy would to implement a "Pick from the Bag" randomization.  There are a set number of critical items in the world.  Every world has X hammers, Y hacksaws, Z bedrolls, etc.  When allocating loot to the maps, just pick from the bag that contains all of those items (some locations have a sub-set of possible items).  Proceed until the bag is empty and all items are allocated.

The good thing about this is that there are always guaranteed items.  However, there is no loot-table to follow.  The downside is that some maps will be easier than others: Spawn in CW and find hacksaw, bedroll, hammer, 2xPots, etc) all  on the same map.  This would make an easy interloper game, compared to a game where you spawn HRV and all essential items are found in DP.  Maybe implement a max-critical items per map policy to prevent this.

You could even pre-generate all the possibilities of above and call them "loot tables".  There would just be a _lot_ of them -- to the point where figuring out which one you were on would basically involve finding all the critical loot.

Very well thought out! Upvote