discussion I'd like to know if making a coat of plate with recycled cans is too off for the game

[TheHunter280]

With all the tin cans we get that can't get scrapped, why not making a coat of plate out of it, I mean it's just trash at this point and for people who doesn't know what is a coat of plate exactly here's videos on what is and how to make one

Since we only have tin cans, let's get to the making of

-Reopen the tin can (preferably with a can opener) and flatten it (can be done with your foot) because we need that thickness and repeat it until you get enough

-Get to a workbench with a toolbox and a sewing kit as tools and x amount of flattened tin cans, x amount of cloth, x amount of scrap metal for 5-8 Hours

Now the stats

5-6 kg

0% Waterproof

0°C Warmth

2°C Windproof

12% Movement penalties

40% Protection

Repair need 1 cloth, 1 flattened can and 1 scrap metal for 20% in 30 min

If I add all the best protective clothing we get up to 73% protection which make the whole dangerous wildlife cry but also laugh because you are a slug with 40% movement penalty and leaving up to you the extra you want. The item will make hunting dangerous animals or traveling in hot zones less mortal but won't make you invincible to sprain or bleed since it only protect your chest, but that doesn't mean you can't get your ribs fractured.

Armor isn't known to be comfortable so it would make sense to tire you faster while wearing it to balance it more.

I don't think it's a good idea to have one since it can make the game loose that sense of fragility once you have it, it's quite OP since it's simple and cheap to make and to maintain like IRL but more people will die of overconfidence.

Thank you to have read until here and let's discuss about it

[greatwhitegamer]

It doesn't seem like a bad idea, but I don't feel like it fits this style of game.

The Long Dark is more of the type of game where you have to use items from nature (pelts, guts, saplings) to craft essential items. Metal plate armor dosn't really match that. 

Also, the idea of a metal armor also makes it sound like were trying to protect ourselves from bullets, which we aren't. I could see this easily in other video games, but not The Long Dark. 

I like the idea of trying to better our protection against hostile wild life, but there are better ways than this. 

Didn't mean to sound aggressive, just expressing my opinion.

Cheers!  

 

 

[UpUpAway95]

Way too bizarre for this game.  Completely impractical.  Would likely never be used.  In addition, there are much better ways to use up the excess cans in this game, many of which were suggested on the thread I started awhile about about using recycled cans.

[TheHunter280]

@UpUpAway95 Of course it should be impractical since it offer a ridiculous amount of protection but there is only 2 suggestions and strats, I agree it would be too KCD

@greatwhitegamer Won't be too bad if lamelar bone armor was proposed instead, but metal plate sounding that much make me wanna laugh since bullet resistant steel plate are thick as hell like 4 mm and it's even worse with ceramic one with a thickness of 9 to 13 mm and they are so heavy for so little surface  and medieval armor didn't go ticker than 3 mm but averaged at 1.5 mm.

An overwhelming offence is a good defense, but what's your ideas ?

[greatwhitegamer]

56 minutes ago, TheHunter280 said:

An overwhelming offence is a good defense, but what's your ideas ?

I was thinking more along the lines of.. well no type of armor. I just like the idea of clothing pieces offering the protection, that is already in the game. No special armors you can craft, just regular protection buff you get from clothes.

[Doc Feral]

I tried to roleplay it. So, I'm stranded in the freezing northern wilderness, where frost and starvation are at least as dangerous as hostile predators, stealth and agility are required to hunt and move efficiently and I put my best efforts in CRAFTING A METAL ARMOUR?! It would be just weird for something like that to become a priority.

By the way, such an armour would be of little to no use against blunt force (moose) and crushing power (bear), and even wolves tend to use the bite to pull and shake to take the prey down, so unless it's a teeth-shattering plate it would be only marginally practical.

[hozz1235]

No, but I have seen old 19th century wooden buildings which have been covered by cans that were cut and flattened.

[TheHunter280]

38 minutes ago, Doc Feral said:

I tried to roleplay it. So, I'm stranded in the freezing northern wilderness, where frost and starvation are at least as dangerous as hostile predators, stealth and agility are required to hunt and move efficiently and I put my best efforts in CRAFTING A METAL ARMOUR?! It would be just weird for something like that to become a priority.

By the way, such an armour would be of little to no use against blunt force (moose) and crushing power (bear), and even wolves tend to use the bite to pull and shake to take the prey down, so unless it's a teeth-shattering plate it would be only marginally practical.

Roleplay wise it's not a priority or even a though but if the wildlife is as agressive as that IRL you'll really want something to tank some, those wolfs attack on sight, they stalk you up to 2 km on clear sight, they aren't deterred by rocks (reasonably) or shouting (if only it came back) and the bears are so fearless but at least there are lazy but thankfully those moose are pretty chill.

You'll be surprised of how much punishment you can take with what is a reinforced vest but I won't deny that moose can give you a bad day, biting through it or even having a bite will be harder since it doesn't fit their mouth, since it's The Long Dark I'd imagine that bears and wolfs like to ruin their tooth just for a big guy

[UpUpAway95]

IRL, people are more likely to get better protection from making noise-makers out of the cans... something that warns wildlife that they are approaching and scares the wildlife away.

[piddy3825]

I like the idea for an open world sandbox, but not for this game and certainly not in story mode.  It would however be a good way to "dispose" of all those extra recycled cans, lol.  I can see your vision come to fruition somewhere down the line.

[Doc Feral]

5 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

IRL, people are more likely to get better protection from making noise-makers out of the cans... something that warns wildlife that they are approaching and scares the wildlife away.

Noise maker, candles, fire bundles... there could be many possibile uses for them.

[Mroz4k]

Hi. Very original idea, so props for that, albeit, absolutely impractical.

Are you sure this armor would actually provide any protection against animals? I don't think it would.

If you do a bit more medieval research, you will find out that metal armor was used in battles against humans, but not during hunting. Why? Because during hunting, the hunter relied on agility, speed and stealth. Metal armor is difficult to move in, it is heavy which impairs your movement speed, shines and clings a lot which effectively removes all stealth as a possibility from the equation. There were special suits and armor for hunting, some of them pretty bizzare like the siberian bear hunting suit, but none of them really implement metal into their construction, unless it was as needles, or small metal parts for horseback hunters.

Furthermore, it can only really feasibly protect the limbs (where it would be useful), and chest. If you look up animal attacks, you would find out that chest is the least likely affected area - the predators will try to instinctively attack your limbs to limit your ability to fight back, or go after soft parts if they are going in for the kill. They might attack the chest if the purpose of the attack is self-defense. Protecting soft parts would be very difficult with an improvised plate armor, as these areas need to remain mobile for the person to have full mobility - places like armpits, neck. 

Once, I read this fun book called Zombie survival guide, which brought an amazing point on why chain armor is an ineffective option against zombies. Because of a "tin can of sardines" argument - the huge mass of zombies would squeeze the survivor out of the chainmail or plate mail armor like we would squeeze sardines out of the tin can, or a toothpaste out of the paste. 
That same argument can be made about bear attack. While you might think the armor would protect you in an attack like that, in fact, research shows it would probably give you even more serious injuries. The armor would increase your weight, and as the bear would be mauling you, you would be trashed around the place, and the added weight would increase the impact caused by the trashing. Also, while you would be protected against the slash injuries, with bears the bigger danger is their weight and power, which results in serious internal injuries like internal bleeding, and serious bruisings. These types of injuries would be added on by the plate armor.

Finally, the ineffectiveness considering the weather. Wearing anything metal in this type of weather would severaly limit your ability to move, and it would insanely increase your body temperature loss. Metal loses temperature very fast (and expands) but by wearing it on your body, you would be trading that temperature with your body temperature through the principle of heat diffusion.

I am very glad to see someone focused on coming up with new, innovative ideas. While most people in here dig in the same direction, coming up with the same ideas, if maybe slightly different from each other, it is all that much more important to have people, trying to "dig new holes". This lateral thinking will benefit the community much more, because sometimes these new ideas will spark new wave of inspiration that can solve a particularly big problem, simply by approaching that problem from the side with a new, fresh idea. That would not be possible without newly generated ideas.

[TheHunter280]

@Mroz4k The wildlife is pretty blind and deaf in this game so it doesn't worry me but I don't have recall that bears making us fly.

If chainmail suck against zombie is simple, it's not rigid and they can still have a bite if it's loose enough, full plate in the other hand is rigid and lessen the blows by deflecting and it's way harder to have a bite but in our case we have semi rigid plate so yeah we will be bad against bears

Anybody sane enough that would put on a coat of plate would have clothing or padding underneath to lessen the blow and avoid contact with the plates. Initially I wanted it to be an outer only coat layer but as an accessory it will need a stat change and I can still find items that can still fit in it.

Splinted Vambraces would fit better as protection against bow string (if they ever add voice lines after firing it) and helping us better against wolf attack

Gorget with a big collar to protect the objective, but nothing too fancy

A noise maker that has a slight chance of deterring wolfs but make the detection radius bigger

Also thank you, and glad you appreciate new ideas even if they are sidetracked

[Mroz4k]

3 minutes ago, TheHunter280 said:

If chainmail suck against zombie is simple, it's not rigid and they can still have a bite if it's loose enough, full plate in the other hand is rigid and lessen the blows by deflecting and it's way harder to have a bite but in our case we have semi rigid plate so yeah we will be bad against bears

the point there was actually no bites, just blunt force trauma. Chainmail was designed to be best effective against arrows, and other sharp weapons. Like, for example, bites. Wearing a chainmail or plate armor would protect the wearer from the bite and claw related injuries, but the impact of the bear would still cause blunt force trauma, with possible internal injuries, which in the remote wilderness carry much greater risk. Which is why I wouldnt reccomend using it.

That said, I should have probably stipulated that against an attack from a wolf, especially the arm protection of the plate armor could be extremely effective.

However, for defense against moose... given that the nature of that attack is trampling, too... Id suspect using plate armor there would not yield much better result then in case of a bear attack.

I think the idea of using cans for a sort-of defensive gear is a pretty clever one. Sheet metal used on them is not particularly strong and thick, but against animal teeth and claws, it should provide a pretty adequate defense. But I think you were thinking a bit too grandiously when you wanted to craft a full coat out of it. 

Lets think of a different possibility. Lets reduce the size of this defensive piece of clothing down to the areas, where it does the most good - limbs. Specifically, arms. 

What if instead of a full-on plate coat, the cans were a part of a crafting recipe for a sort of metal-layered hand guards, designed to defend the survivor against primarily wolf attacks, directed at the limbs?

This idea is not original by me, @JAFO came up with it back when we got the Moosehide satchel. That there would be another craftable accesory clothing pair of equipment - leather armguards which would provide minimal protection against elements, but would be a major boost to clothing protective layer against animal attacks. The original idea only accounted for a use of leather, probably some type of rough leather... but your idea to use cans would improve upon this. One could craft armguards using can sheet metal layered in between two layers of a leather armguard, the result would be a very effective way to protect survivors hands against the attacks of the animals. For example, 4 cans and 2 wolf skins, plus some guts to tie it together, you could arguably create a very efficient defense for whole arms, from shoulder down to wrist. As an added benefit, this type of armor could reduce a risk of obtaining a sprained wrist affliction as a result of animal attack. Naturally, the piece of equipment would defend against all animal attacks.

[Doc Feral]

I agree with the arm protections, in an old discussion about wolf struggles I considered that being stranded in a wolfy area I'd probably go cloak & dagger, using a heavily padded arm to invite and block the bite and machinegun stabbing the mutt's gut with a knife. That would be a practical use of armour, but leather or layered cloth may be better than tin for that.

[odizzido]

Coat of plates would be good, but gambeson seems better overall to me. Effective armour plus very good thermal properties. Maybe a gambeson with cans sewn into the outer layer for the best overall.