suggestion Unpredictable wildlife AI

[Kaisentlaia]

I get that dangerous wildlife is a fundamental part of the game's difficulty and that it's Hinterland's vision (afaik voyager is how HG intended the game, before the other difficulties were added). Right now predators have four states:

• oblivious, when they haven't noticed the player yet
• stalking, when they noticed the player but are still too far away to attack
• aggressive, when they are close enough to attack the player
• scared, when they run away whimpering

Right now when the player gets detected there's a slim chance for the wolf to get scared and run away, and that's pretty cool. Too bad that bears and moose have only one reaction, which is stalking for the bear and attacking for the moose. It makes sense because having the bear or the moose run scared in front of a player that didn't hurt them in any way would be nonsense (unless it's pilgrim), but it's a bit boring because it's completely predictable.

I'd like to see a fifth state for wolves, bears and moose: avoiding. It would replace fear upon detection in the wolf (and in the pilgrim bear) and it would consist in the animal noticing the player and trying to keep at a distance from them. Not a frantic run like a scared animal but a fast walk in the opposite direction. The animal could change state if the player would close distance on them quickly, running towards them. In that case they would go straight to aggressive, or scared for pilgrim. Of course this would not apply in case of wolves eating prey.

It would be amazing if the balance between avoiding and stalking/aggression would change over time as well: at the beginning of the game avoidance would prevail, and slowly shift to a higher probability of stalking/aggression as the time goes by. Just imagine being sure that dangerous animals will keep their distance from you and suddenly one of them attacks you! That would be a fun surprise! 

TL;DR what if all dangerous wildlife had a chance to try to keep their distance from you upon detection, instead of having just wolves with a chance of running away scared and yelping in front of an unarmed guy?

Yes this would probably be a nightmare to code, but I really wanted to get this idea out there. A girl can dream

 

[U47]

Not to be picky but I would include baited as a type of state.

Good idea though especially the change of the chance to become aggressive vs avoiding over time wich could easily just use the amount of days the run currently has. More days = higher chance of aggression with base chance modified by difficulty. 

To add a bit, I would love to see a "keep distance" state.  This would only apply to mainly wolves and would only happen if the character had a burning torch/flare in hand.  The predator would circle the character at a distance and checks would be made for the state to change to aggressive based on amount of days the run currently has as out lined above. If the torch goes away for whatever reason (burned out, switch to weapon, ect.) then aggression would be automatic. 

 

[stray_cur]

Yes!  This would really would deepen the experience;  more shock when wildlife attacks, more relief when they don't - more emotive all round! 
+ the increase aggressiveness over time to help keep things interesting & challenging.

*Avoidance state would be nice, but i'd be happy at this point just to have anything between the 0% aggro of pilgrim and 100% aggro of everything else.  Running scared 50% of the time for example (& change with time).

This is #1 on my wishlist of relatively simple things to implement.

PS. is Kaisentlaia Finnish?

[Kaisentlaia]

On 10/02/2019 at 8:48 AM, U47 said:

Not to be picky but I would include baited as a type of state.

True, true. I never bait them so I forgot about that one! Although it could fall under oblivious maybe. I like your "keep distance" idea!

On 12/02/2019 at 7:55 PM, stray_cur said:

*Avoidance state would be nice, but i'd be happy at this point just to have anything between the 0% aggro of pilgrim and 100% aggro of everything else.  Running scared 50% of the time for example (& change with time).

Completely agree, the avoidance state could be interesting from an immersion point of view but having a more random behaviour that changes over time would already be great even using the already existing states!

On 12/02/2019 at 7:55 PM, stray_cur said:

PS. is Kaisentlaia Finnish?

Nope, it's Lapine.  Well, it's a translation of the Lapine name Hyzenthlay, one of the characters of Watership Down by Richard Adams. I love that novel! (I didn't watch the new series on netflix yet tho, so I can't comment on that)

[odizzido]

I really like this. If wildlife were more unpredictable the game would feel more alive.

One thing I thought of is to have wolf aggression based on how much other wildlife there is around. It doesn't make sense for a wolf to attack you if there are plenty of rabbits for it to eat. Why take that risk? But if you've hunted all of the rabbits perhaps the wolf would get hungry enough to take the enormous risk of attacking a human.

[Guest kristaok]

I still think Wolves should have a chance to flee, but I agree avoidance could be a good thing overall.

[Mroz4k]

Well, for starters, Id separate aggressive behavior from straight-up attack as its very own status. Aggressive would, in this case, be the chase. It's best seen in wolves. When they notice you, they stalk - they slowly start moving toward you, while growling ever so slightly. But they don't attack and if you move quickly enough by sprinting, you can actually outrun them in this stage.

Once the wolf gets close enough, it starts barking and running - this is truly the aggressive stage. If the player is caught unaware, this stage goes directly into an attack. But, if the player catches this in time, and is doing something to discourage the wolf (for instance, carries a lit torch) - this stops the charge, but the wolf is still in the aggressive stance, deliberating whether to attack or not. If you try to sprint away in this case, the wolf will just sprint behind you too, and stop at its set distance, considering attack or running away.

Bears also have a bit different stalking stance. They stalk sounds. But when they notice you, they immediately go into an aggresive stance. When the bear is in aggression, it follows you endlessly, albeit in a slow, relaxed pace. Unless you break the line of sight and smell, it will follow you for a very, very long while. If it reaches a certain distance from you, it rears up and goes into an attack.

Moose has no stalking, only predators have that type of stance, but it does have an aggresive stance that is not straight-up attack. It freezes upon noticing you and prepares its antlers for a charge. Still, if you walk off, it will not charge you.

I am all for unpredictable wildlife. The idea you had with the increased chance over time is something I came up with too a long time ago, and so did a couple of other forumers. So I am in full agreement with you here - and it also makes an absolute sense. The event of TLD triggered a nature´s response, at first, the animals have not been hungry yet, but over time, the animals will get more and more desperate for food, making the chance of an attack an increased likeliness.

As for the idea of "avoiding" - I am pretty sure this is not a very natural response. If an animal is threathened, it would certainly not show its possible assailant back, and walked off... more likely, they would react the same way moose does now. They would heighten their senses, stop and anticipate your next moves. Deer would start running upon your approach, and the rest of the animals would trigger flight of fight kind of behaviour.

If anything, the "avoiding" would be done by animals in a sense that they would notice you, and start walking away from you ever so slightly by circling around your position, and constantly increasing their distance from you bit by bit. That way they would keep their senses sharp in case you presented a threat. Which is again a type of behaviour I would love to see within the game.

And not just this. I would also like to see some more unpredictable behaviour in animals on the map scale. Right now, animals collect in specific areas of the map. It would be very immersive if you could encounter animals very rarely outside of their designated areas. Maybe not rabbits, but all the other animals could have a roaming stage, when they would walk around the map into areas where they normally should not be.