Cinderella Challenge

[tulkawen]

31 minutes ago, BareSkin said:

- Starvation is punished by having only half of your normal rest bar available (thus being usually overweighted)

Got it.

32 minutes ago, BareSkin said:

Hibernating is prevented by "Rest as a resource" mechanic, that forbids you to sleep one you're fully r

Check.

36 minutes ago, BareSkin said:

- Since starvation punishment is actually preventing you to have a full Rest bar, you're never "fully rested", so "rest as a resource" mechanism doesn't trigger.

So, when people get that half red bar, they only eat for 4h and sleep 4h to keep the starvation penalty? Doesn't that limit them to sleeping 4h only then because if they sleep more then the bar will hit other bar and penalty will go away?

37 minutes ago, BareSkin said:

If you don't, just consider yourself blessed and enjoy Voyageur the way you do now!

BUT, we haven't even moved on yet to the stick figure diagrams.

 

40 minutes ago, BareSkin said:

Where is the bug then? The game should say "you woke up fully rested", when the white part of your Rest meets the red one (the penalty). But because it is coded to trigger when rest is at 100%, it never happens and if you have 2L of water, you can sleep 24h in a row without a problem. (except you get -24% health from being starved)

blatherin' blatherskite 

What does water have to do with this scenario?

That's why I never take advantage of any bugs.

[BareSkin]

2 minutes ago, tulkawen said:

So, when people get that half red bar, they only eat for 4h and sleep 4h to keep the starvation penalty? Doesn't that limit them to sleeping 4h only then because if they sleep more then the bar will hit other bar and penalty will go away?

I've actually used it a lot in later days I didn't report yet (just played them right now), it seems you can follow a cycle for maximizing this bug, and REALLY, to anyone reader, don't read if you don't want Voyageur become a no-challenge for you:

1/ Starve until you get Rest penalty (you need a minimum equivalent of 1h of sleeping part red)

2/ Spend 24h sleeping, and lose 24% of your life. Stay hydrated, that's where the water plays a part: you need ~2L/24h

3/ Spend another 24h sleeping, lose 24% health again. Stay hydrated but keep the bar low.

4/ Once dehydrated, eat 540 calories (not much more), drink, sleep 8h: it heals for 52% while you've lost 48%

5/ Since you didn't eat too much, you still have the Rest penalty, so repeat from #1

Basic equation: For no health loss (actually+4%), you can "endlessly" survive for the price of 270 calories and 2L of water per day. Really cheap.

The technique works quite well on Interloper, but it involves running a lot for nothing, and the prices are higher of course, on resources that are much more limited. Plus, Hibernating on loper is not very smart, unless you want to be naked and defenseless on day 50, with temperatures reaching from -40°C to -80°C.

[BareSkin]

BareSkin32- D46 [Cinderella ]

- In the night I harvest my work gloves leather to try repairing my boots: I forgot it also needed cloth

- Morning: after a short 8h heal, I take snared rabbits even if I won’t harvest them, go to the workbench finish the pants

- Back in the shelter in an unnecessary Grandma’s fog, repair it, sleeping

BareSkin32- D47 [Cinderella ]

- Aurora night but I have nothing to do at the bench, and the auroras are not cold, so that’s a complete bad news to me

- I should be waiting for the next blizzard to make the most water-for-a-match for fuel efficiency, but fuel is not a big deal given the coal renewal, so this -22° morning will be enough

- Since I don’t need to cook any more meat, I make my fire near the shelter, for the nice view.

- 3 matches left. For 13 days, the sub-challenge seem compromised

- I have to wait being at 8% health to be dehydrated, eat for free, sleep-heal 6h

BareSkin32- D48 [Cinderella ]

- With the crafted clothes, I can’t get to negative FL in the shelter (if there's no blizzard)

- Hibernating all day long, but I notice the snares produces much less rabbits

BareSkin32- D49 [Cinderella ]

- Hibernating FTW

BareSkin32- D50 [Cinderella ]

- Wake up at 8%, but I still have 1/8th of thirst bar to deplete before eating, that’s roughly 1h30 of sleeping, so I sleep one more hour, to 7%

-I passtime if front of one of my 1kg-536calories rabbit steak, preparing for a good 8h heal

- If heartbeat is terrifying on Loper+, it’s a nice company to have when hibernating in a shelter, with plenty of food and water

Before

After

-Today is cold day (FL-2 in shelter), I need to be in the bedroll for not freezing

- With my new life, I repair the 80% shelter (2 sticks)

- I could live for maybe hundreds of day with my actual resources, just hibernating the way I do. The limiting factor is water (1 can!)

- the 563 calories left me just enough starvation rest-penalty to continue hibernating (I guess the threshold is around 600cal/48h?), it’s so perfect I start to wonder if the cheating technique isn’t even there on purpose…

They're all cured of course

All unharvested

When I get bored making water

Last stick I took was 10 days ago

[BareSkin]

28 minutes ago, tulkawen said:

blatherin' blatherskite 

With a bit more experience being starved on Loper, it'll actually become very clear to you, don't worry ! And thanks, I googled and learned a new word today

29 minutes ago, tulkawen said:

What does water have to do with this scenario?

Just... not dying from dehydration? lol

[tulkawen]

2 hours ago, BareSkin said:

With a bit more experience being starved on Loper, it'll actually become very clear to you, don't worry ! And thanks, I googled and learned a new word today

I used to watch Duck Tales and picked up that word as a kid. It's just so blathering and perfect for describing such situations.

Wow -80C on Loper? D: That's EVIL! EEEVIILLL!! It seems like my mission to do 100 days on Loper is super doomed. Do wolves at least disappear with -80C? Or they get fatter and grow furrier hides?

I don't think I'll use bugs because it sounds like you just get to sit in a hole all day. That's a pretty funny way to consider the game fun - who can sit in a hole the longest.

Your screenshots are very interesting. The first one with the low health is actually in the darkness, so, it feels like the long dark is coming for Cinderella and the dawn comes.

Do running shoes require cloth too or just leather? Though it seems you're going to make it to day 60 with the work boots.

Edited February 28, 2019 by tulkawen

[BareSkin]

20 hours ago, tulkawen said:

Do wolves at least disappear with -80C?

Technically yes, since it's when there's a blizzard. Also, it's on late game anyway, so fewer wildlife

20 hours ago, tulkawen said:

Do running shoes require cloth too or just leather?

Just leather, but they decay so fast and their stats are so bad that keeping the 44% work was a better option

20 hours ago, tulkawen said:

I don't think I'll use bugs because it sounds like you just get to sit in a hole all day

That's basically why I stopped playing the regular Interloper and switched to Custom modes

[tulkawen]

3 hours ago, BareSkin said:

That's basically why I stopped playing the regular Interloper and switched to Custom modes

Why not just play the regular Interloper without using this bug?

So Sleepwalker mode is custom mode and it's like Interloper but without the ability to do that bug thingy. Or there are other changes as well?

[BareSkin]

My words are often: Code is law. "Not using" is kinda hard in the real hardship of Interlope (there's no punishment), much more than "not moving to another map"

The basic line is: remove healing during sleeping. It's exchanging the incentive to sleep long stretches (why that, anyway?) to fix the starvation hack. Playing it I've seen myself adapting my behavior to a more realistic lifestyle.

Everything philosophical is in there:

And the new codes for last update are here :

There's also a custom code for Voyageur-sleepwalker you might want to try someday

[tulkawen]

1 hour ago, BareSkin said:

The basic line is: remove healing during sleeping.

D: How do you heal then? Sleeping 10h each night is the way to save my bacon even if the healing effect is greatly reduced on Loper, otherwise, I'd be dead in two days max. The cold damage is horrendous and to get food you have to get cold.

Edited March 1, 2019 by tulkawen

[cullam]

48 minutes ago, tulkawen said:

D: How do you heal then? Sleeping 10h each night is the way to save my bacon even if the healing effect is greatly reduced on Loper, otherwise, I'd be dead in two days max. The cold damage is horrendous and to get food you have to get cold.

He heals by slowly recovering condition while awake. It's very slow and painstaking, but it can be done. It means, depending on sleepwalker level, it might take a few weeks to fully recover from a wolf attack. 

In terms of starvation as a strategy, I've had to do it frequently on my Bjorn the Berserker run. Since most instances of eating mean food poisoning, and an immediate need to sleep 10 hours, I've gotten pretty used to usually only eating about once every two days. But I can't use the weakness due to hunger bug, as I need to sleep 10 hours before I can even start healing, and need to still have food in my stomach by the end. So the penalty to wakefulness is always long gone by the time I get to heal. 

[BareSkin]

BareSkin32- D51 [Cinderella ]

- hibernating.

- At dusk I’m down to 19% health, and I still have 9 hibernating hours worth of thirst, so that’s a perfect match

BareSkin32- D52 [Cinderella ]

- 9% health, dehydrated: time for eating and healing 8h

- Only 2L of water left (+ the 5 sodas I found), so if tomorrow morning is nice, I’ll spend one of my last 3 matches, since the last one I spent was on day 47 the maths are still good for the sub-challenge

BareSkin32- D53 [Cinderella ]

- It’s a nice cold morning (-24°C at 3AM, that’ll make a -27 dawn) so I go spend a match.

- I don’t cook, I have plenty enough food, since I eat 563/2=280 calories per day and still have 4 1kg-rabbit steaks

- Looking at the winds, I use my torch to change the fire placing before putting coal into it

- I might have to babysit it if winds turn

- 1 water cycle later, it’s blizzard, of course the Evilwind turned, but it seems the place is nicely sheltered for now.

- AT actually reaches -30°C, great for data points I missed

- AT then reaches -40°C, even greater!

- At noon, EvilWind appears and kill my fire, I made 11L of water and ended up cooking the rabbits (1 slot left anyway) for full stomach on departure

- I repair my 83% shelter, and go back to hibernating, swimming in my water bottles, it’s FL-4 in the shelter, but since the temperature are rising I go sleep safely in the cloth bedroll

- 2 matches left. Still doable

Here are my Cold bonus findings so far, the lack of precision is mainly due to having only a can and cooking 5, plus the game rounding time display in minutes:

BareSkin32- D54 [Cinderella ]

- Just after publishing the “How to Ruin Voyageur”, I stupidly not follow my recipe and end up with 12% of my life and ¾ of my thirst bar (=9h sleeping)

- I’ll have to be careful since my health will drop to 3% before I get dehydrated

- While a 2% life, I carefully repair the 82% shelter and go for a nice healing sleep-heal

My new record low without dying

[BareSkin]

BareSkin32- D55 [Cinderella ]

- I’ll try to get as much life back as I can, since day 60 approaches: I’ll eat as soon as possible the penalty allows 8h worth of calories before disappearing, which I don't want. Get some life back:

BareSkin32- D56 [Cinderella ]

- +44% health (total 54), repair the shelter

BareSkin32- D57 [Cinderella ]

- hibernating

BareSkin32- D58 [Cinderella ]

- 71% health, but the penalty went off, I ate too much.

- At the Mine, I grab and harvest all the frozen rabbits I deposited here

- take some cooked and raw food to the shelter

-Leave a lot of stuff in the mine

- Have to run stupidly behind the shelter to build fatigue

- AT-32 at midnight thanks to a Blizzard, second campfire is sheltered: time for a match

- 1 match left

BareSkin32- D59 [Cinderella ]

- 81% health

- Today is holiday! I eat some food to read my 2 books, those 10j bring my back to 91% thanks to awake healing (+1%/h on Voyageur)

[tulkawen]

On 3/1/2019 at 9:57 AM, cullam said:

He heals by slowly recovering condition while awake.

That sounds painful.

I like being able to recover health while sleeping. Especially on Loper it's like 20% per hour in the cold and you have to stay out in the cold for many reasons. If you don't recover a good chunk then you'll just die in a couple of days because the beating amount daily by a huge margin surpasses the non-sleep heal.

@BareSkin You still have all that food like salty crackers preserved from the mine. Speak of living off the land.

[BareSkin]

2 minutes ago, tulkawen said:

you have to stay out in the cold for many reasons

If it's mandatory, then we should wonder how did the previous sleepwalkers and deadmen do to stay alive more than 100 days

3 minutes ago, tulkawen said:

That sounds painful.

It's just a viewpoint... being able to heal 75% of your life overnight could also seem... boring to some . Sleep-healing basically allows YOLO-lifestyle ( and I can guess what you like in that), while sleepwalking forces you to pay for your mistakes, to plan in advance, etc...

[tulkawen]

8 hours ago, BareSkin said:

while sleepwalking forces you to pay for your mistakes, to plan in advance

On Loper you do not get 75% sleep-heal per 10h.

You cannot plan against the cold (I'm not talking about the long term where temp drops). It's just cold from day 1. So I don't consider it a mistake because even if I move from point A to point B without getting lost I'll still pay heavily with health. Moving in the cold from place to place is the means of living and on Loper even if you get a bearskin coat and moose cloak you'll still be freezing and taking crazy beating from each trip.

[BareSkin]

9 hours ago, tulkawen said:

On Loper you do not get 75% sleep-heal per 10h.

Right, that's from 32% to 42% depending on where you sleep and if you took Herbal. That's a maximum of 3 nights to get back to full health.

9 hours ago, tulkawen said:

You cannot plan against the cold (I'm not talking about the long term where temp drops)

I think we will agree to disagree on that point, because you can. The game has better hours and weather to wait for traveling, and a warmup bonus that is very precious (plus running, plus wind-shielded paths). Also a lot of places for warmup pauses (fire) if your travel is long. With this in mind, if from point A to point B you heavily lose health, it means point B was too far . Anyway a good sleep will give you back at least on third of your bar. For long term drop, the planning is more about having weapons to craft clothes.

TL,DR: That must be doable, since people do it

[tulkawen]

40 minutes ago, BareSkin said:

That must be doable, since people do it

They're the TLD superheroes who probably have windproof capes too.

Whelp, here's the example.

I popped up on Loper at Timberwolf. Recently explored it, so, I recognized the spot immediately. The evening was good, -13C for Loper is a really good temp and low wind.

I grabbed a couple of twigs and mushrooms that were growing right next to me, then immediately went for the rope, hurried with my back as close to the cliffs as possible to the lake, crouched down the bank, pinpointed wolves, sprinted to the fishing hut and raided it, sprinted to the bank, grabbed cattails that grow by the docks and checked the boats, then hopped into the cabin.

By the time I got inside the cabin, I was already bum deep in hypoth and lost 8% health. That's a really short trip in a good weather without any screw ups, didn't even need to make a hook around the lake to get off the wolf radar. Not like I fell off the rope into the wolf's mouth to call it a fatal accident. Considering that other trips are way more complex and longer, the cold is down your butt non-mercifully all the time. I lose a lot less health to wolves than to cold.

40 minutes ago, BareSkin said:

Also a lot of places for warmup pauses (fire) if your travel is long.

Yay! I was going to warm up in that cave over there when suddenly a bear exits from that cave. There goes my plan. Maybe I could just tuck my fire by those rocks over there, hope the wind doesn't change direction... It's too windy to even start a fire.

Even if I did start a fire, a regular fire isn't warm enough to actually warm you 90% of the days, yes even in some cave, you need to add coal and while you're waiting for coal there goes another 10% of your health. The amount of time it takes to get the fire to the warming temp sometimes takes longer than just running for your location.

40 minutes ago, BareSkin said:

The game has better hours and weather to wait for traveling,

You mean those nice toasty evening hours right before the weather plummets and you'll be trudging in pitch darkness before you get half way to your mark while the wolves from all over the map start stalking you?

40 minutes ago, BareSkin said:

With this in mind, if from point A to point B you heavily lose health, it means point B was too fa

I'll just take this nice near trip somewhere... whoops... where did this wolf pack come from in between me and location? Let's take a twenty miles detour to avoid them and freeze while at it.

Planning in The Long Dark.... You CAN plan, but that's not how the cookie crumbles.

And I most certainly don't want to have game conditions where I'm daily losing ten times more health without any major screw ups than I can regain.

Edited March 3, 2019 by tulkawen

[BareSkin]

BareSkin32- D60 [Cinderella ]

- Start the day with 100% thanks to sleeping on my remaining reading calories

- Fully rested around 5AM. Grab two snared rabbits, I place the snares back, for helping the next survivor coming in here.

- At noon, I’ll be around 90% health, and I’ll go back to full stomach habits (like sleepwalkers) that will bring me back to 100% just before midnight

- At noon I’m dehydrated (nice timing), I eat all the cooked meat I can find

- Grab fuel in the mine (3sticks 6 coals), water, the civilized food that can’t poison me (actually all of it, since I'm cooking5) and my last match, transfer to Harris, waiting for the evening

- On my way, I snap a rabbit, get barked in my back while running to the basement. With my condition, I’m pretty sure I would have survived a struggle anyway

-Harvest 1 rabbit steak, sleep 2h. Uselessly, since in the outside backpack, steaks have been here 30 days, they’re still at 80% condition

-At dusk I’m welcomed by strong winds, I wait night lights to transfer near the CH exit

- At around 11PM the blizzard dies: I full my stomach for the last time and go make a campfire sheltered under the rock near the exit

- I use one of my flares for the fun of it, but 5 seconds later I’m followed by 2 barking wolves

- The sub-challenge of surviving 30 days with 12 matches is beaten, since I don’t even use my last match to start my last fire. Didn’t touch civilized food.

- Wait neat the fire, and suddenly have a passion for Mother Nature: I get naked and think about my life

- I burn everything, I hate my life and want this meaningless struggle to end.

- Warm by the fire, my ass on the Bareskin Bedroll, I think while looking at the stars for 1h. I realize I’m actually not ready to commit suicide.

- I cook my 2 mushroom teas, drink them, kiss my can goodbye, and leave for a new start in life

- Walking in the midnight snow I realize it took me only 60 days to become completely crazy. I’m a naked woman walking in the night, with a bearskin bedroll as top-fashion coat. I close my eyes and see myself in Paris streets. Fashion week.

[tulkawen]

Oh! The migration day! That's always exciting.

8 minutes ago, BareSkin said:

kiss my can goodbye

Prince Charming wasn't worthy. Who needs him when you can have a can.

Those wolves look pretty intimidating in the flare light. You don't want to mess with a pack even on voyager. With one and good health your chances are very good, but not with two of them.

Congratulations on making it with your individual sub-challenges.

Edited March 3, 2019 by tulkawen

[BareSkin]

4 minutes ago, tulkawen said:

I was already bum deep in hypoth and lost 8% health

This is actually a perfect start for a TWM Loper start, even if I wouldn't have paused for stalks and boats (I pause only for potential clothes when in hyporisk)

10 minutes ago, tulkawen said:

You mean those nice toasty evening hours right before the weather plummets and you'll be trudging in pitch darkness before you get half way to your mark while the wolves from all over the map start stalking you?

Nope, just before that . Also, a warm afternoon is useless if very windy. (Voyageur stats)

12 minutes ago, tulkawen said:

you need to add coal and while you're waiting for coal there goes another 10% of your health

Then just start it in advance

13 minutes ago, tulkawen said:

And I most certainly don't want to have game conditions where I'm daily losing ten times more health without any major screw ups than I can regain.

I will challenge you to that, miss!

[LkP]

impressive run, thanks for sharing.

(do you think this map was doable without exploiting the starvation glitch ?)

[BareSkin]

4 minutes ago, LkP said:

impressive run, thanks for sharing.

(do you think this map was doable without exploiting the starvation glitch ?)

Oh yes certainly, I did this just out of laziness, if you check Day 47 spoilers images, you see 50coals, 36 sticks, 20 reclaimed, 52 matches...

Basically not exploiting it for the last 13 days would need some more fuel for water (for 13 days I didn't even harvest branches or make another coal run). The water was the bottleneck, I was swimming in food and didn't even took the snared rabbits for the last 10 days.

I'm wondering if I could actually have made it without the bedroll (only the can). The cloth was available, and the temperatures were not that harsh, but the start would have been more epic: I'd have to prioritize making the shelter, that's 15 sticks and 5 cloth to find and I had mainly leather from the mine. The food and water wouldn't have been a problem despite not harvesting the deers as a priority, since I've have civilized food (6sodas) I didn't even touch.

The strategy would have been to transfer in morning in Harris to find cloth, then in the afternoon (with only less than half the Rest bar), find 15 sticks, back to Harris for warmup, loot the Arch cave if more cloth needed, warmup in the mine, and build the Shelter in early night just before completed exhaustion, sleep 1h chunks until too cold, then transfer indoors to wait better temperatures, then in late night find 2sticks (max cold bonus) start the deer harvesting with coal.

[DaveMcD]

20 minutes ago, tulkawen said:

And I most certainly don't want to have game conditions where I'm daily losing ten times more health without any major screw ups than I can regain.

I don't think interloper is particularly hard...but I used to be very i intimidated by it. I couldn't tell you at which point that changed but at some point it all clicked into place. I used to be worried about condition loss but now I mostly look at it as a trade. I trade condition loss for items, or travel distance, or resources that in a hopeful future pay back that trade with interest. I try to make those trades on my terms trying to gamble on the returns. More often it lands in my favour, sometimes... not so much. As always don't gamble what you're not willing to lose.

I just started trying to record my gameplay and put on Youtube for the first time in my playing the game. Current Interloper run my average condition is probably about 40% and in all honesty this run is going spectacularly well - 17 days in and I've forged all my tools, summited timberwolf and more than halfway to having bow and skins ready to craft and I've made a bunch of mistakes and wasted lots of time. 

You have the skills and mindset to succeed at interloper,  but perhaps you need to rethink the question of what success looks like in this mode.

[BareSkin]

BareSkin32- D61 [Cinderella ]

- Greeted by stones, rose hips, flare and soda in a car. The flare is really ice, I’m so defenseless.

My first true friend, I will name you Flara

- In the back of the car, a Rifle. Lol. Challenge finished already. Oh, no bullets, OK it’ll have to wait for the next house

- Coastal Cottages are usually all burnt on Loper, but I’m sure I’ll find at least one in this run, and I’m right: while grabbing sticks, I can see it in the beginning of an aurora. Oh, even 2 of them.

-I think I see a wolf, but that’s a mailbox

- The only danger now that I have a flare is the nearby bear: I’m ready to run but don't need it.

- First house gives FL+1, put my naked body in the +8 bed, sleep 2hours (can't sleep more), then passtime for daylight

Isn't it cosy, compared to my trusty Shelty?

- In the morning I loot: t-shirt, very nice Fisherman’s sweater (doesn’t exist on loper I think), leather shoes, second flare, useless flare shell, porkandbeans*3, soda*2, recycled can *2, tomato soup, cooking pot, peaches, 1.5L water +1.62L in the toilet, candy bar, bandage

-The second house gives me even more of everything and some I didn’t have yet: cotton scarf, trail boots, painkillers, useless can opener (cooking3+), 20 matches, second pot, sports vest and wool mittens, sewing kit, wool scarf, jeans, light shell…

- Some mending later...

-Voyageur: you’re broke, but 24h and 2 houses later, you’re a King that doesn’t know what to do with the loot.

[LkP]

30 minutes ago, BareSkin said:

Oh yes certainly, I did this just out of laziness [...]

Ok, and again thanks for explaining your strategies

20 minutes ago, BareSkin said:

-Voyageur: you’re broke, but 24h and 2 houses later, you’re a King that doesn’t know what to do with the loot.

yeah, I stopped playing Voyager after 60 days of "surviving", nothing to do anymore that could be a real challenge. I start wondering if Cinderella will not die soon of boredom... ;p