BareSkin

Cinderella Challenge

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Without a source of water, you're dead. Without a bedroll, you're probably dead. But there are more loot items you can find that could give you water. Canned food is pretty much a guarantee in the basement. So now you're hoping for a can opener, knife, hatchet, or pot. The pot is unlikely, but I'd say there's a decent chance at one of the others. 

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I honestly think the can shouldn't count as an item in this challenge. Partly due to the fact that a: the cooking system originally worked without them b: its now almost impossible to play without them c: its default starter gear for every difficulty.

The transition zones with the exception of the ravine maybe, have such little loot as to render them potentially impossible. No matches, dead. No can, dead, No bedroll - possibly dead. How long does perpetual fatigue take to kill you? 

I would suggest the transition zones are considered like the mines / caves. An extension of one connected zone of your choice. 

Or consider that perhaps 3 items allowed into transition zones but only one taken on exit.

 

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14 hours ago, LkP said:

You already went to the mine, but maybe it could be considered part of the Connector and not DP ?

That's already in the rules and in my plan, the workbench is nice once you get at least 2 cured guts: once for fishing tackle, one for rabbitskin hat, and the coal produced is around 20. It also offers a nice indoor near the rabbit grove, and the way to the car is protected from the wolf (he can't shortcut on the rock).

12 hours ago, Czhilli said:

but you can put a snow shelter at the mouth of the cave at The Arch and it appears to be wind proof location

This is a great find, since the main problem of not having bedroll is the fire exposition since it needs to be near a car. That makes a possibility if I ever find 5 cloth, but I doubt I can find 33 sticks everyday (even with 20 starting coals and respawn), and I would need to go naked everyday to the snares place which I can't move, and come back unwolved to the shelter with 3 bar scents. It's still a possibility as long as the shelter is not near one of the wolf patrol routes.

12 hours ago, Czhilli said:

With a snow shelter you could take the risk on warmer afternoons for some multi hour sleeps without a fire to regain condition.

I'm not sure about that. It'll need more checking, but naked in a Shelter you need constant AT>-18°. Not sure it happens on late Voyager. Plus that make the blizzard problem the same, since temperatures drop during your sleep and force a fire on you since you're far from any indoor place. I will look for a sheltered place near the rabbits, near an indoor (where I will spend most of my time). Maybe the dead end of the road, the wolf doesn't patrol this place.

10 hours ago, tulkawen said:

@BareSkin :D Perhaps this challenge can be modified based on what more experienced players say. It's possible to reduce these smaller maps timer to 20 days and allow the can + any other item of your choice when you're moving. Would that be more doable? :)

I have a philosophical problem with that (changing the rules), but I also have one with trying the impossible. Deadman is very hard, but I tried several times because I though I could make it, that's not the case here (I wouldn't re-try such a Cinderella), mainly because of the fuel I need to find everyday (running naked) on such a small map (it just doesn't exist). The coal will make it doable for a few days but that's it.

The snow shelter is a nice option when you have clothing. To me it all boils down to having a bedroll (= being granted a free can). The bedroll removes the need of fuel for sleeping, and I would need only half of the sticks for cooking/water. 20 coals for a 35 sticks/day lifestyle sleeping outside is a mere help (~30h of fire, that's what, 5 days?), 20 coals when you need only 15/day and are quite assured not to get your fire killed cause you can make it in the cave in case it's blizzard, that's a save.

On a side note, I've always though it's a huge failure in the game not to be able to sleep anywhere (of course with penalties compared to bed/bedroll). Like I'm completely exhausted, I'm in a mine, I can't lay down?

I will do the maths with a bedroll and check Voyager afternoon temperatures and come back with my findings.

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@BareSkin I'd look at it more as establishing a doable set of rules through experience by someone willing to adhere to them and someone who is known to face difficulties (in case anyone else wants to try in the future) than breaking the rules. At the start when I was presenting the challenge I said I may not have the necessary experience to create a doable set of rules and asked the players if this challenge is possible to do.

A third option to make this challenge more passable would be to let Cinderella keep her old rags dress aka the clothes she starts out with when she appears in the world. It would be her responsibility to preserve and maintain them in good shape hence these are the only clothes allowed to be carried from map to map. If any item from that set gets ruined or intentionally sacrificed, it may not be replaced and she wouldn't have the option to take it with her to a new map.

I understand though that you may have already shredded that starter set since you're on day 20 or may not even remember what you started out in, so whooopsie. :D Then perhaps we could replace it with something of similar value?

If I remember correctly all my voyagers had one set of jeans, blue undies, sports/wool socks, an average quality sweater ex. thin wool. shoes: running or dress. possible items: lowest tier jackets ex. sports vest, windbreaker. never had: gloves or hats.

In that case Cinderella would carry map to map:

1) her starter clothes set

2) a can

3) one item of her choice

Small maps times reduced to 20 or 15 days since that's the number you said you have enough fuel for.

Would this be more fun/doable?

Edited by tulkawen

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30 minutes ago, tulkawen said:

@BareSkinIn that case Cinderella would carry map to map:

1) her starter clothes set

2) a can

3) one item of her choice

 

#1 basically makes it "start a Voyager game in any zone and don't leave for 30days, but with extra skills and a free item of choice".  Further, the clothes can be in top condition.  Too easy?

It's your challenge, but I think a can + item would be more in line with the original intended difficulty of the challenge. 

If you insist on the above, then maybe thematically she cannot take her shoes with her to the next zone (Cinderella losing the glass slipper).

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2 minutes ago, NardoLoopa said:

#1 basically makes it "start a Voyager game in any zone and don't leave for 30days, but with extra skills and a free item of choice".  Further, the clothes can be in top condition.  Too easy?

It's your challenge, but I think a can + item would be more in line with the original intended difficulty of the challenge. 

If you insist on the above, then maybe thematically she cannot take her shoes with her to the next zone (Cinderella losing the glass slipper).

I don't insist, I'm considering various possibilities. :)

Leaving her shoes behind would be pretty wicked. :D Items of the starter set minus shoes is good too.

I suggested it because if I understand correctly the world begins deteriorating, thus, by the time she moves to farther maps all the other clothes might be ruined and her starter set would be all she'd have plus whatever she can craft. When you're starting a game fresh on any map you will always find heaps of new stuff during the first day, not in this case. Plus, voyager starts with a guaranteed set of matches and a bedroll. She still must make the choice what's more important between those two.

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1 minute ago, tulkawen said:

I don't insist, I'm considering various possibilities. :)

Sorry, poor choice of words on my part.

I haven't done the math, is item deterioration really a concern in Voyager?  I'm 160days into a Stalker run and it isn't close to an issue yet.

Matches or Bedroll.  Yes, still a choice.  Never thought I'd hope for a HRV start.

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1 minute ago, NardoLoopa said:

I haven't done the math, is item deterioration really a concern in Voyager?

I'm around day 90 at present and I am finding many clothes and food items either at 0% or in ruined condition, however, there are still intact items left in the yellow zone and the ruined clothes can still be shredded for cloth. The tools, however, are in good condition.

Starting your HRV on day 180 without shoes and matches even on voyager seems a doozie. :D

I once spawned at HRV on Loper and that was the most horrible experience. Within 1 min of starting the game I got topped by a blizzard and -64C weather. Also had zero knowledge of the map. Died with 3 frostbites (not risks).

At present, I'm most inclined to support the theory of a can + any item you want. :) But, the world deterioration seemed an important point to discuss too and to present the starter set option too.

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I’m keen to see @BareSkin press ahead with the current rule set just to find out of it is possible.

 

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9 minutes ago, Czhilli said:

I’m keen to see @BareSkin press ahead with the current rule set just to find out of it is possible.

 

:D It seems the issue is that it's not possible and he will not be doing a second attempt.

Personally, I am most inclined towards the can + any choice item and 15 instead of 30 days on the small maps. He said he'll go experiment on another survivor, so, I'd like to see those results too. ^_^

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@Czhilli Honestly if I'm very lucky:

-I wait nearly 18h before warm hours (I enter mine at midnight), which means I need to make the first fire even before leaving the mine, for water

-with good weather in warm hours, I run naked and loot all sticks of the map on day 1 without freezing and not being wolfed (it's just not lucky, it's miraculous), I may get to 30-40 sticks in exchange of a lot of hypothermia, and may snatch 2 rabbits.

-In any indoor place, I'm now exhausted and get the 2 guts to cure: it's 6-7 day countdown (with craft and snaring) I need to spend eating only non-renewable food

-I sleep, next morning, get out and set a fire for cooking the rabbit: I spend half my sticks reserve (+water), the other half for sleeping a bit

-If I'm lucky and wake up alive (no fire killing), I'm now in a cold morning, back in an indoor place with nothing to do until warm hours, no more sticks.

I can see it basically stretched with coal/deer carcass plus some loot, and maybe even dying frozen in the car at the first morning blizzard, but that makes it only at best, a few days.

 

I have no doubt a free can + chosen item would make it doable, not saying I am able to reach day 60 tho, didn't say it would be easy. I'm still contemplating the snow shelter variation, but it takes time to get a survivor to day 60 temperatures, unfortunately. Still, that's a gamble on how much cloth you find. Don't find 5 cloths? Dead.

Anyway, the idea of a challenge is that it's doable independently of loot tables. It would be like trying to Snowball in TWM on a loot table that doesn't give a hacksaw: it's pointless.

Keeping clothes isn't an option for me and too hard to track, that's the basic of what makes the challenge hard. The number of days shouldn't matter because again that would be a gamble about starting resources (namely number of coals), and I like the 30-day kinda-moon-cycle idea in a Cinderella challenge.

Would it be OK, @tulkawen if I take a can and an item of my choice? I could pay with 0 item on next transfer :D

I will welcome any data from those playing post-day50 Voyager about Air Temperatures at different hours (snow shelter is wind-shielded). Maybe in PM in order not to flood the thread.

Edited by BareSkin
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@BareSkin From the information gathered it does seem that your demise would be inevetable and probably swift on a can only run. You already have nearly 30 days invested and I can understand not wanting to go on a suicide mission. Do only what is enjoyable for you. Even with two items you have a mighty challenge ahead. Have fun and keep us entertained with the fairytale of Cinderella’s desperate fight for survival in the desolate frozen wastes. :)

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1 hour ago, BareSkin said:

Would it be OK, @tulkawen if I take a can and an item of my choice? I could pay with 0 item on next transfer

Absolutely and this should be applicable at least to the Ravine (or which other zones considered 'transitional?) as well. You do not need to pay for it with zero items either. :)

I want you to succeed in this challenge and keep us entertained. :D

p.s. Yes, you CAN. hardy har har I made a pun. :D

 

Edited by tulkawen
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4 minutes ago, tulkawen said:

Ravine (or which other zones considered 'transitional?) as well.

The Ravine is another matter, there's no indoor places and no workbench to craft clothes. Sure there is no wolf and more sticks, but that's a sure death, I won't go there. Winding river is manageable since the Dam can be attached to it (it's clearly not needed to survive Mystery Lake).  I just checked the temperature on day 20, it already goes down to AT-24 at 7PM, FL-9 when naked in a shelter.

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2 minutes ago, BareSkin said:

Sure there is no wolf and more sticks, but that's a sure death, I won't go there.

In that case, do you propose attaching it to one of the other maps?

Edited by tulkawen

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2 minutes ago, tulkawen said:

In that case, do you propose attaching it to one of the other maps?

Can't be done, it connects to Coastal Highway and Mystery Lake, which are arguably to two easiest maps to survive. Definitely, Ravine is the last map of the challenge, where you struggle for your life. Might be doable, but naked I doubt it, since you can bring only 1 snare (no workbench). Taking the Rifle is useless since there's a pistol that gives you a deer, but do deers respawn quickly enough to feed on it? Anyway, you sleep outside in a makeshift bed outdoor in the cold, have to climb a steep rope at least once every 2 days for getting sticks... good players might survive a week, who knows?

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1 minute ago, BareSkin said:

Can't be done, it connects to Coastal Highway and Mystery Lake, which are arguably to two easiest maps to survive.

That's true. If one of the maps was harder I'd have assigned the Ravine to it, but they're equally easy. I guess the Ravine will function the same way as transition mines and the rule of if you touchie anything it's yours for the map you're currently on.

Keep in mind though if for ex. you are on Coastal and want to go to ML next through the Ravine, you'll have to run through the ravine without stuff on because stuff gets left behind before you click on the transition circle, not inside the new map.

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BareSkin32- D20 continued [Cinderella ]

- Set up a snow shelter near the Riken for testing purposes

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-Grab the last 2 bear bags for harvesting training, and the 10 guts for the fun of it

- The bags are a 18%, man that decays fast

- At around 19PM, there’s a snowstorm, it’s-24°, -9 naked in the shelter. That’s warm hours you’re supposed to sleep…

 

BareSkin32- D21 [Cinderella ]

- Passtime starved+dehydrated until I’m 12% health, go find some food, sleep it back to 32%, then passtime awake with 4 needs OK just to make sure the recovery is 2%/h

-from 32% to 39% in 6h, recovery rate confirmed at +2%/h

- for the first time, I try to shoot a rabbit with an arrow. After 3 fails I go back to stones, much more efficient.

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- Who would use a bow if not on Loper, and if on Loper why would you make your hard-earned bow and arrows decay for rabbits?

- spend the evening in Mine harvesting and eating, enjoying my so-far-easy life

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1 hour ago, BareSkin said:

Can't be done, it connects to Coastal Highway and Mystery Lake, which are arguably to two easiest maps to survive. Definitely, Ravine is the last map of the challenge, where you struggle for your life. Might be doable, but naked I doubt it, since you can bring only 1 snare (no workbench). Taking the Rifle is useless since there's a pistol that gives you a deer, but do deers respawn quickly enough to feed on it? Anyway, you sleep outside in a makeshift bed outdoor in the cold, have to climb a steep rope at least once every 2 days for getting sticks... good players might survive a week, who knows?

You aren’t even guaranteed a rope to be able to descend the ravine and access the bed and get the flare gun to hunt deer. One snare won’t cut it. There’s barely any loot, I’m not sure there are even any matches. The food is initially not too bad with cat tails in the river and maybe nine rabbits, but the bunnies might not respawn fast enough. Pretty sure you get two deer on Voyager. It might be doable if you take firestriker, bedroll and cooking pot and the rope spawns so you can grab the flare gun to shoot deer.

I’d certainly go to Mystery Lake via Pleasant Valley and Winding River. Leave the Ravine for a finale should you make it that far.

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On 2/1/2019 at 8:23 PM, Czhilli said:

I’d certainly go to Mystery Lake via Pleasant Valley and Winding River. Leave the Ravine for a finale should you make it that far.

That's exactly how this Challenge should be played, Ravine is the Final Boss. A TLD boss, one you can't win.

BareSkin32- D22 [Cinderella ]

- I hope today will be sunny, Fire 5 is crucial to obtain.

- Weather is fog and snow, there are deers at the Riken and I would like Harvest5, but as a Disney Character I refuse to shoot any deer.

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-Harvest 5 is so hard to get I wonder if it doesn’t need a little bit of tweaking. Can you really harvest fully 2 bears, 5 deer carcasses, tons of rabbits for 20 days and not get expert at it? Plus this “can’t harvest/quarter-frozen-carcass-even-with-hacksaw/hatchet-because-it’s-on-a-slope-and-you-can’t-make-fire” is really too stupid as a gameplay tactic, a real flaw in design.

- I manage to score my first bow-shot rabbit at Little Island.

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- At noon sun is here, so that’s firestarting practising until too much wind (= 5 fires)

-Craft 5 snares and process the saplings to gain some archery training, until dusk

BareSkin32- D23 [Cinderella ]

- Clear morning? Firestarting. 3 fires, then it snows.

- To the Church via mine (17 coals resspawn after 20days, around 1coal/day), and drop the snares.

-No sun today, I record the temperatures: they’re compatible with snow shelter today, there are several hours above -15°C

-Sleep in the Mine 5 entrance, near the rabbits traps.

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BareSkin32- D24 [Cinderella ]

- Water and fire training

-At 7 AM it’s +7°C compared to yesterday same hour, what should I conclude about it? Yesterday was a shitty day from weather viewpoint, and today chose to be nice.

- temperature science through the whole day

-prepare a campsite in front of Mine #5 for D-day evening

- try an 11h-sleepheal once more, for science’s sake: from 23% to 90%, I find the 67% again, and not the 88% the theory predicts.

- not that I will ever have to deal with such lengths anyway...

BareSkin32- D25 [Cinderella ]

- When I wake up on day 25 at 8AM, game says I survived for 24 days and 2h, which means 24th day of survival started on day 25 @6AM, the 30th night should theoretically occur at the end of day 31.

- all snares are empty, I won’t be harvest 5, no big deal

- I wonder if OIC will have enough food for me

- The skies clear up around 11AM: fire training till Fire 5!

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- The fires don’t feel like they start twice as fast. The description might be wrong now that all fires have seen their starting times boosted up.

- Archery training on a rabbit

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- I start a fire to hunt the silo wolf for archery practice and for the fun of it to be honest (it is so rare): yes, fires definitely start faster.

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- In the evening, back to the church: 1 rabbit has been snared. I moved all remaining snares to the spot for science

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If you have extra cloth, you can practice mending as well. You should still be able to find non-ruined clothes by day 90 and good mending would help repairing those.

Glad you're finding many tasks to occupy yourself during the first 30 days. :)

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On 2/7/2019 at 9:32 PM, tulkawen said:

You should still be able to find non-ruined clothes by day 90

Let's survive until day 32 first :D

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1 hour ago, BareSkin said:

Let's survive until day 32 first :D

You can do it and reach the Ball! :D

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BareSkin32- D26 [Cinderella ]

- Next morning , 6AM, I go check the snares: nothing

- Back in the nearby mine, I brake crates for 2h, go check snares: 3 rabbits. (~3.5kg meat)

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- I’ll need 2kg/day minimum after meeting Prince Charming.

- It seems there’s a 12h minimum time check on the snares since I put them here yesterday at nightfall

- Efficiency today is 50% (6 snares)

- I’m back from a test run on OIC (to find snares spot), I do want harvest 5 before going with Cinderella to be able to harvest 100% frozen carcasses, It’s important for the first days there.

- I for once cook the rabbit pieces, to fight boredom

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- Now I’m waiting day 30 while collecting some science on snares efficiency

- 2 coals have respawned since day 23, that’s still around 1/day.

- Comparing with previous Harvesting screenshot, I estimate reaching Harvest 5 after 5 more rabbits fully harvested, it should be OK before day 30

- I run in the cave to build enough Fatigue to go to tomorrow morning.

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My new waiting place: mine entrance near the Church

BareSkin32- D27 [Cinderella ]

- Next morning 5 AM: 4 rabbits in 6 snares, that’s great.

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- Grab them back for harvesting. Maybe 3 more rabbits needed.

- I shoot wolves to fight boredom and protect my deer friend. I’m so bad with a rifle I barely even manage to scare them.

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